Interdictions > Enuff is Enuff already ?

Y2K · Aug 23, 2016

I dont mind interdictions, i can outrun pretty much anything before it even gets a shot on me but i dont expect to be interdicted by a ship thats 140ls away!!

Jukelo · Aug 23, 2016

The interdiction range is a function of closing speed. You can interdict a target hundreds of ls away if you're approaching fast enough. That's why the last few light seconds on a trip are the most dangerous: in the close proximity of a planet you're bleeding off speed much, much faster than your pursuer, dramatically increasing their closing speed and thus the range at which they can get you. If you're worried about interdiction it's best to do a wider arc around your destination and only really head straight for it once your pursuer is outside your rear cone.

Y2K · Aug 23, 2016

he wasnt closing, i was going whay faster than him, he just spawned at the star i just left hence i thought no way hes catching me before i jump, the distance was growing and he still managed to get me.. total if you ask me. NPC's cheat!!!

Codger · Aug 23, 2016

Devari posted the best explanation of how the game works, so I'm just going to quote him.

Devari said:
They were probably programmed this way for two main reasons. First the P2P connections that make the game work mean that truly "persistent" NPCs that retain their existing ammo/modules/shield damage is something that the game can't easily handle right now. They would need a central game server (like most other MMOs use) to keep these changes tracked as the NPC "moves" through other systems that the player is not in at the time. As it currently stands any time an NPCs is "spawned" to interdict the player this is triggered by some sort of mission/cargo/bounty flag that generates the NPC on the spot. If you damage or destroy this NPC, then jump away, an "identical" NPC with the same name but with different details will "respawn" behind you to interdict you again. You might think this is the "same" NPC but it's not, it's generated by the game as a "respawned" version of the original NPC that interdicted you. That's the issue that the NPCs are cheating, they were never the "same" NPC to begin with.

The second issue is that it's much harder to program NPCs to follow all the same rules that players follow. They would need to add or upgrade the existing NPC AI coding to give them appropriate and realistic behaviors. So even if they ran the game of a central server without relying on P2P connections they would need to put in quite a bit of additional work to make the NPCs follow all the same rules players need to follow.

Essentially what players think is a "persistent" universe is nothing of the sort. You fly around in Elite in your CMDRs own personal "instance bubble" that is used to flag everything from interdictions, to USSs to mat spawns on planets. It's the illusion of an open universe, not a persistent set of game mechanics where an actual NPC "follows" you around trying to interdict you. Think of it like the Matrix with an infinite number of Agent Smiths that you have to deal with if that makes it any easier for you.

Ignition · Aug 23, 2016

I hate so much the random spanw of npc!!! We need more persistance!

I would like to know where is the bounty hunter behind me, I want a npc telling rumors where are your pursuers and pirates so there is more persistance and sense.

Also it is impossible to stop a npc trying to interdict you, its just a game of non stop loops and the minigame needs improvements both supercruise and interdictions.

Bounder · Aug 23, 2016

Ignition said:
I hate so much the random spanw of npc!!! We need more persistance!

I would like to know where is the bounty hunter behind me, I want a npc telling rumors where are your pursuers and pirates so there is more persistance and sense.

Also it is impossible to stop a npc trying to interdict you, its just a game of non stop loops and the minigame needs improvements both supercruise and interdictions.

Play FE2 - esp, the Amiga version - it has persistent, causal AI. You can see all other ships on your system scanner upon entering the system, you can see their hyperspace exit clouds when they leave, and their entrance clouds when more enter. You can see which ones, if any, are taking an interest and heading your way, even if they're still on the other side of the system, giving you plenty of time to plan evasive strategies or defensive / offensive tactics.

Unfortunately DB started adding random spawns in FFE, and also broke the system scanner so you can only see hyperspace clouds but not ships, which is super-annoying and utterly perplexing, but then he also broke the galaxy map controls, and the persistent function key mapping - switched instead to modifiers, so sometimes F5 brings up your weapons screen so you can see which missiles you're carrying, while other times the same key promptly vents you out into the station hatch halfway through a drive change, stuck, with no engines.. and you can plot a direct line of regression frm there up to ED, today, where to simply see how much free cargo space you have before takng on a mission requires you to exit the missions board, get back to your main cockpit view, look down to the right, pull up a little holo-screen, tab left a few times while carefully scrutinising the reams of useless bloat to try find which line of data tells you how much space you have.

What EVERYONE wants, but doesn't seem to realise it, is a Frontier sequel, just with the option of ED handling. But an FE2 sequel, not an FFE one. And it goes without saying it would have to pretend ED never existed.. like it was all just a bad dream, or something..

Sigh. I know. I'm ranting..

FE2, and Pioneer. Both have persistence, logical, causal consitency. Pioneer has full thruster control, but no lasers (the ships can only fire little puff balls). FE2 has lasers, but no full thruster mapping. FFED3D has lasers and full thuster control, but no persistance and random spawns right behind you, right in front of you. See two slow ships behind you, turn around and run a little ways, turn back and now there's five of them, right behind you, all with half your delta V. How'd they get there? Cheers DB, great gaming mind that you once were, because that is so not cool..

There is no perfect Elite, for now. Our best hope is that Pioneer gets lasers at some point in the future.. unless FE2 or FFE get any further makeovers..

But DB and Frontier, it seems, just do. not. get. it.

/rant

Sentenza · Aug 23, 2016

Ignition said:
I hate so much the random spanw of npc!!! We need more persistance!

I would like to know where is the bounty hunter behind me, I want a npc telling rumors where are your pursuers and pirates so there is more persistance and sense.

Also it is impossible to stop a npc trying to interdict you, its just a game of non stop loops and the minigame needs improvements both supercruise and interdictions.

Well at least they do not magically regenerate now. I shot one to 50% hull, it jumped away, and when it interdicted me again it still was at 50%, not fully regenerated as it used to be.

Limoncello Lizard · Aug 23, 2016

Y2K said:
he wasnt closing, i was going whay faster than him, he just spawned at the star i just left hence i thought no way hes catching me before i jump, the distance was growing and he still managed to get me.. total if you ask me. NPC's cheat!!!

I can beat you, this one was over 1000ls away and I was going 475c and accelerating: Impossible Interdiction

Drezden · Aug 23, 2016

They frequently jump away and interdict in less than a minute... Repaired to full, different weapons, better ranking, but same name still

Bacalao · Aug 23, 2016

Jukelo said:
The interdiction range is a function of closing speed. You can interdict a target hundreds of ls away if you're approaching fast enough. That's why the last few light seconds on a trip are the most dangerous: in the close proximity of a planet you're bleeding off speed much, much faster than your pursuer, dramatically increasing their closing speed and thus the range at which they can get you. If you're worried about interdiction it's best to do a wider arc around your destination and only really head straight for it once your pursuer is outside your rear cone.

Yeah, I wish that the initial tether strength was a function of relative speed (the closer the stronger) and distance (the closer the stronger) so that if someone is coming up behind me at 100 times my speed he's going to have a lot of trouble for the first few seconds and be at a terrible disadvantage because his FSD is struggling to shed all that speed and he's near the max range of his interdictor so it's struggling just to hold the lock. It would make interdicting less of a brain dead affair.

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Sentenza said:
Well at least they do not magically regenerate now. I shot one to 50% hull, it jumped away, and when it interdicted me again it still was at 50%, not fully regenerated as it used to be.

Drezden said:
They frequently jump away and interdict in less than a minute... Repaired to full, different weapons, better ranking, but same name still

I see both of these happen, but I used to exclusively see what Drezden describes, I call that progress and I'll take it. I want more, but it's a start.