Interstellar travel extended frameshift

[Vorxian]

Wanted to make a certain suggestion on here to see what folks thought [up]

The idea being extended frameshift jumps. So we all know that you hold x fuel, and you can see from the galaxy map that you can make say for example 6 jumps before the line becomes dotted and you have to refuel.

Here's the what if !

Would folks think that the ability to jump the whole fuel distance be plausible?

Thinking about it, the only real time this would be beneficial is if you were actually trying to make a bee-line from a to b covering expanses... Some pro's and cons-

CONS

Mostly not helpful for exploring as you'll be missing out on swathes of connecting star systems

If you find yourself out of fuel at an unscoopable star.. you're find yourself in an *oops* moment.

You leave to go AFK, and boom, exit FS fly right into a sun! (dont go afk, ever!!)

Pro's

Actually feeling like you're making that epic journey. Travel time in 'warp' does make you feel like you're travelling far.

Class and type of FSD makes relevant, already in game differences to the distance you can travel to.

Bring new benefits of extra fuel tanks - longer leaps.

To explain practically how it *could* work, a logical guess that if jumping from star system to star system bee-lining as you do now with no scanning etc for a single hop, you're taking, say, 5 seconds to engage fs, 10 seconds actually in frame shift, 10 seconds for fsd cooldown and alignment to next system, and taking another 5 seconds or so to engage frameshift. Overall, say the process takes 30 seconds 'per hop' - if you had the fuel to make 6 hops, you'd end up with a 3 minute travel time if done manually (although 3 mins does sound like a tough target to maintain consistently).

If you could remain in FSD for say the whole 3 minutes, perhaps minus the incidental system cooldowns of visiting a star system (alignment stuff etc) the extended FSD jump is therefore 2 minutes for the equivalent 6 jump example.

No idea if I explained it the way I really wanted to but you get the jist.

TLDR; have the ability for an extended FSD jump for the whole distance fuel permits, gaining pro's, risking cons.

 

[DHMeyer]

Wanted to make a certain suggestion on here to see what folks thought [up]

The idea being extended frameshift jumps. So we all know that you hold x fuel, and you can see from the galaxy map that you can make say for example 6 jumps before the line becomes dotted and you have to refuel.

Here's the what if !

Would folks think that the ability to jump the whole fuel distance be plausible?

Thinking about it, the only real time this would be beneficial is if you were actually trying to make a bee-line from a to b covering expanses... Some pro's and cons-

CONS

Mostly not helpful for exploring as you'll be missing out on swathes of connecting star systems

If you find yourself out of fuel at an unscoopable star.. you're find yourself in an *oops* monent.

Pro's

Actually feeling like you're making that epic journey. Travel time in 'warp' does make you feel like you're travelling far.

Class and type of FSD makes relevant, already in game differences to the distance you can travel to.

To balance things, a logical guess, that if jumping from star system to star system bee-lining as you do now with no scanning etc for a single hop, you're taking, say, 5 seconds to engage fs, 10 seconds actually in frame shift, 10 seconds for fsd cooldown and alignment to next system, and taking another 5 seconds or so to engage frameshift. Overall, say the process takes 30 seconds 'per hop' - if you had the fuel to make 6 hops, you'd end up with a 3 minute travel time if done manually (although 3 mins does sound like a tough target to maintain).

If you could remain in FSD for say 3 minutes, perhaps minus the FSD cooldowns and engage time during the extended FSD jump is therefore 2 minutes for the equivalent 6 jump example.

No idea if I explained it the way I really wanted to but you get the jist.

TLDR; have the ability for an extended FSD jump for the whole distance fuel permits, gaining pro's, risking cons.

That would be a great feature. Please be prepared for a barrage of abuse from fanbois and trolls when it comes to this though.

But, as for the Cons.
Yes, you will miss the opportunity to fire ADS when aligning with the next star. That has a price tag of about 50k credits on a 250 Ly trip and a tiny gain in Exploration ranks. Of course, it's nice to have that 50k, it's nice to get half a percent in Exploration rank, but to me it's not a big deal. This is not even exploration. Exploration is when you actually check the systems you visit, decide on which ones to do detailed scans in, maybe land on a planet or two. When you are out there with the goal of checking stuf and gaining some knowledge. Firing ADS when you line up with the next star is just that: firing ADS. Simple mapping. A "by the way" kind of activity. Useful should you ever visit the system again, but nothing more.
So I think in this case, if you are jumping through several systems in one go, this would actually make exploration more meaningful and purposeful. Also, this is optional, right? If you decided you want to go fast, you go fast. If you decided you want to scan every system on the way, you still can do it this way. Your choice.

As for unscoopable stars, that's again your risk and your choice. You can pay more attention to your destination, plot route a bit more carefully. For example, if your ship can do 250 Ly on it's fuel supply, you can: 1. check if the last star before the dotted line is scoopable or not 2. plot your route anew every 200 Ly or so, so that you have some fuel reserve giving you the opportunity to find scoopable stars nearby when you're low on fuel

In my opinion, Pros are worth both loosing some Exploration ranks gain and some credits for exploration data and make us to plot our routes in a more careful way as well as actually make real exploration trips. I think I got to Surveyor only through ADS scans (and one or two detailed scans of some systems) and it didn't make me feel like I'm exploring the galaxy. But when I actually made some exploration trips, that was fun and more meaningful to me.

FSD do matter the way it is, however right now if somebody is short on credits, probably better fuel scoop would be the more important upgrade, so yes, I agree that this would make the FSD more meaningful.
The feeling you mention is also important, but more so because the game wouldn't force you to repeat the same activity every 30 seconds for 10 minutes unless you want to and are doing it for a purpose (for example Exploration).

The main bonus to me if such a system was to be introduced, is that you can focus on the game content. On participating in events happening throughout the bubble. On setting some actual destination you're interested in and going there, on having a purpose of your activities.

This sort of system should work through the galaxy map (you tick "continuous journey" option or something similar) and probably be limited to 2/3rds of ship's total range to solve the refuelling issues. It should be also limited to the bubble and systems on the outskirts of it (like Maia or 17 Draconis) - so exploration outside the bubble would be unaffected.
I'd suggest that however long it takes to do such a jump, apart from the jump in and jump out moments, the player should be able to access things like a galaxy map (not showing their position, but allowing them to check info about various systems and maps for those systems), ship's panels, chat etc. So you have a normal jump out, then a minute or two of witch space when you can do various things on your ship, then jump in to the destination system. Probably FSD should cool down not for 10 seconds, but for a minute.
Probably some thought would have to be put into balancing this with cargo carrying capabilities of the ship (as in: long jump possible if you don't have more than X amount of cargo, being a percent of total cargo capacity), but this would also give some new options for the FD, namely an ability to create heavy duty (thousands of tonnes of cargo), long range, interstellar freighters, which would be used for lugging stuff around the bubble between select stations having the necessary facilities (thus creating several hubs around which piracy would be highly dangerous, but also highly profitable if successful). These freighters would need escort ships, which is an excellent mission opportunity for the players, both willing to protect the cargo and the ones wanting a slice of it. Current ships would be used more for distributing the goods around those hubs than for long range haulage. I am day dreaming here of course, but this sort of stuff would add a real sense of grand scheme of things (in terms of human activity in space) to the game. This would also be extremely immersive when we can walk around the ships, because suddenly you have a minute, or two or five, when you can interact with your ship, go check the cargo hold, engines or whatever.

The opponents will say that this doesn't allow for interdictions, piracy etc. Which is true. But... When it comes to NPC pirates and interdictions, I have yet to encounter one that would be more than just a minor annoyance. I'm quite happy to get interdicted most of the time, because it's free credits for me anyway. When it comes to being interdicted by players, I'm under the impression that people who carry around stuff that could be of value to the pirates, mostly don't do it in Open anyway (and then freighters suggested above could add way more fun to piracy than interdicting some poor noob carrying a few bars of gold from point A to point B). Personally I believe that building a piracy system based on interdicitons and hacking cargo hatches is very basic, there is way more depth that can be added through the mission system, political system, and functionality outside of the scope of FSD interdictor and few pew pews.

What we would get in return, is in my opinion more valuable. People constantly complain about the amount of content in Elite. The thing is... There is plenty of content in this game, but through the scale of it, it takes time to get to that content.

 

[Vorxian]

Really nice reply, thanks DHM! repped.

I think right now loading up on cargo reduces your FSD range (per hop), it naturally takes extra hops / extra time to reach your destination. This would have the byproduct of drastically shortening your extended range in this proposal.

The option of the extended jump would be a deliberate option you choose after each 'leap', by default it'll revert to system to system as it is now

Hopefully it wont affect PvP, most PvP I have come across becomes an aborted attempt after your target high-wakes. Ofc the FSD leap would still generate a que to where the ship was going, so that wouldn't change. If someone tried to follow and couldn't make the range, it'll just say "aborted, not enough fuel" for example.

BUT if a PvP ship, did manage to highwake after it, they would reach the other end on a pretty chunky FSD cooldown, so it would hand the aggressor bountiful opportunity to pluck the feathers off its victim.

(your suggestion about an extended FSD cooldown is a great one).

You made some excellent points about adjusting your routing to give some safety nets, not having to max out range etc, gives a lot of control over where you're going and how you get there. I can see a lot of variety in explorer builds balancing fuel with system jump range, and extended cruise fuel builds.

Accessing map etc would need to work, and would be superb with space legs + multi-crew. Would feel great to have that feeling of actually cruising at 'warp 6' for extended periods of time!

 

[Shadow_Frost]

I would love to run the max range of my ship instead of this short hop thing. I have a max range for a reason and I want to use it.

 

[DHMeyer]

Really nice reply, thanks DHM! repped.

I think right now loading up on cargo reduces your FSD range (per hop), it naturally takes extra hops / extra time to reach your destination. This would have the byproduct of drastically shortening your extended range in this proposal.

The option of the extended jump would be a deliberate option you choose after each 'leap', by default it'll revert to system to system as it is now

Hopefully it wont affect PvP, most PvP I have come across becomes an aborted attempt after your target high-wakes. Ofc the FSD leap would still generate a que to where the ship was going, so that wouldn't change. If someone tried to follow and couldn't make the range, it'll just say "aborted, not enough fuel" for example.

BUT if a PvP ship, did manage to highwake after it, they would reach the other end on a pretty chunky FSD cooldown, so it would hand the aggressor bountiful opportunity to pluck the feathers off its victim.

(your suggestion about an extended FSD cooldown is a great one).

You made some excellent points about adjusting your routing to give some safety nets, not having to max out range etc, gives a lot of control over where you're going and how you get there. I can see a lot of variety in explorer builds balancing fuel with system jump range, and extended cruise fuel builds.

Accessing map etc would need to work, and would be superb with space legs + multi-crew. Would feel great to have that feeling of actually cruising at 'warp 6' for extended periods of time!

Yes, that's true, carrying cargo already limits the jump range, so it would balance itself automatically anyway by cutting the total range. And yes, I was meant to add the player would be more vulnerable after jumping out because of that lengthy FSD cooldown

I'm not entirely sure about enabling it throughout the galaxy as opposed to limiting to the bubble and nearby areas only. If my current ship has a total range of 250Ly that would mean I can get to Sagittarius A in about 100 long jumps as opposed to a current thousand or so. Which I don't mind, but I think it should be limited to the bubble only anyway, basically for the purpose of keeping players more or less in one place for the sake of multiplayer modes. Explanation being: space outside of the bubble is not well known and not well mapped by the navigation systems of the ships, thus not allowing for utilizing any "shortcuts". Not enough data to perform a long jump. So we are not loosing the purpose for long range exploration ships, it is still challenging, time consuming etc.

Whereas within the bubble long jumps would make it feel smaller, which is a good thing as this would allow for bringing players together more easily in multiplayer and getting to the game content more quickly in all modes. It would make the bubble feel more inhabited, more "lived in".

I think that "cruising at warp 6" would actually grow old pretty quickly, but if we are supposed to see 10 years of Elite development, I'm sure that long jump time can be used for something interesting at some point. Or at worst, it can forever stay just the time for browsing Galnet.