Proposal Discussion Ironman Dead is Dead?

[JeffRyan]

It's come up in a DDF topic and it's sort of Off Topic there, so I'm bringing the discussion here.

We understand an Ironman character if he's killed by a player is bumped to being a non-ironman character. Which... to be honest I personally disagree with, but anyway...

The question is, should ironman be dead given any situation where the ironman character dies. My own opinion is yes, whether it's killed by PC, a crash into the side of a station during docking or killed by an NPC or whatever. Even a docking computer malfunction. Ironman in my opinion should be hard.

 

[OneViGOR]

I agree with you. The idea behind ironman mode, as I see it, is that it reflects real life in that if you die, you die, no matter how it happened. If you crash into something and die, tough luck. If you get shot down, oh well. If you're dead, no matter how it happened, you stay dead.

Perhaps they would be a little module you could acquire in ironman mode that has a chance to automatically launch your escape pod, but can be easily damaged, or perhaps a medium mde where this is possible for medium-level players. Instead of manually launching or automatically launching, you have a module that will automatically launch you, but must be maintained. What do people think of this?

 

[Oss133]

Not really Ironman if death is not always death.

Blancmange Man?

Anyone?

No?

 

[withnail]

Death in Ironman = dead and restart in my opinion.

 

[ianw]

They do die in the ironman group though don't they (I assumed it was by any cause)?

But you can move them to the non-iron - or start a new iron dude in the iron group.

ETA - just noticed this in the archive The commander is not killed by any amount of ship operational failure

Not entirely sure what that covers..

 

[Slythe]

The only problem is when people die due to disconnect or lag.

 

[Abysinth]

I'm not sure it should be called Iron Man though. I've seen the films ... Iron Man doesn't die.

At least, not yet - or is that just a plot device?

 

[Oss133]

The only problem is when people die due to disconnect or lag.

Yes, I'd back that as the only exception.

 

[Keeval]

Yes - dead is dead in ironman mode.

I would agree that an exception could be made for disconnects or lag - as these are out of game events. But anything in game that causes your Commander to die in game means they are dead. If you then want to continue your Commander in normal mode then you can.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

The only problem is when people die due to disconnect or lag.

Yes, I'd back that as the only exception.

No exceptions ...

I am about to die, I know it, you know it (because you're the one pounding me) so I pull the plug .. prove I did that intentionally Oh but you can't ... therefore rollback please.

No .. dead is dead .. no matter what .. it's part and parcel of the risk:

• Server lags and kills you .. you're dead.
• Your ISP drops you and BHunter Fred kills you .. you're dead
• Cat jumps onto your keyboard, looks you in the eye (cos you know, all cats are sly) and surreptitiously holds down the fire button whilst you were trying to dock so the station opens fire and kills you .. you're dead.

 

[Komemiute]

No exceptions ...

I am about to die, I know it, you know it (because you're the one pounding me) so I pull the plug .. prove I did that intentionally Oh but you can't ... therefore rollback please.

No .. dead is dead .. no matter what .. it's part and parcel of the risk:

• Server lags and kills you .. you're dead.
• Your ISP drops you and BHunter Fred kills you .. you're dead
• Cat jumps onto your keyboard, looks you in the eye (cos you know, all cats are sly) and surreptitiously holds down the fire button whilst you were trying to dock so the station opens fire and kills you .. you're dead.

Master... I bow to you. Yes.
Iron man mode is IRON MAN mode, not Tin Man.
I remember Diablo II Iron Man Mode... D: Ogawd. It was... brutal.

 

[jabokai]

I am about to die, I know it, you know it (because you're the one pounding me) so I pull the plug

Wouldn't you just eject? I may be murky on the Ironman proposal, but wasn't the main difference a manual escape pod? Now I mention it, were there certain areas of space where escape pods didn't work too?

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Wouldn't you just eject? I may be murky on the Ironman proposal, but wasn't the main difference a manual escape pod? Now I mention it, were there certain areas of space where escape pods didn't work too?

Yes, you would, but let's presume I don't have one as I used it earlier.

Also on that note - If you do lose connection there is going to be some "to be determined" proposal by FD about what they will do when you drop ... Combat logging I think people call it. In every other online game I have played there simply is a delay of X seconds (0 in Path of Exile / D2 / BF3; 10s in D3; WoW; Everquest [showing my age here ]; etc) then you're removed from the game .. during that time you can still die of course, but then wouldn't said dead pilot file a petition - "My ISP dropped me ... Prove it isn't true or roll me back!"

More than anything else if FD have a simple "no rollbacks for anything" it saves them from a world of pain.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

True Ironman mode would put everyone in the same parent group and keep them there until they're dead, no sub-group switching within it to private or solo play if you can't stand the heat, and death meaning death so there is no dropping into the regular all group with your ex-Ironman.

I'm hoping FD make it a true hardcore feature and do away with all the fluff, then it may be worthy of the name.

 

[JeffRyan]

No exceptions ...

I am about to die, I know it, you know it (because you're the one pounding me) so I pull the plug .. prove I did that intentionally Oh but you can't ... therefore rollback please.

No .. dead is dead .. no matter what .. it's part and parcel of the risk:

• Server lags and kills you .. you're dead.
• Your ISP drops you and BHunter Fred kills you .. you're dead
• Cat jumps onto your keyboard, looks you in the eye (cos you know, all cats are sly) and surreptitiously holds down the fire button whilst you were trying to dock so the station opens fire and kills you .. you're dead.

We agree on this one bud.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

I'm hoping FD make it a true hardcore feature and do away with all the fluff, then it may be worthy of the name.

I agree with the group switching - I would prefer Ironman to all be in the same group and the best you can do is form Alliances.

Dead being permanently dead, no movement over to normal, is a sure way of driving away your playerbase. Dying in a game and permanently losing your character can be quite upsetting and stressful, especially if you have put in hundreds of hours and the death wasn't your fault. (Lag)

The pilot now has a choice:

• delete and start again in Ironman from scratch
• abandon the idea of IM and continue in normal

It's a fair compromise considering your character just permanently left the IM universe.

 

[Slawkenbergius]

Dead is dead for me, no matter how stupidly it happens...

I've not thought it through, so I'm not at all sure it's a good idea, but I wonder whether a time lock would add to the mechanic. So once you're ironman commander dies, you can transfer it to non-ironman, but there's a 2 week 'grieving' period.

Also, maybe limit the maximum number of ironmen characters you can create to one per week, to cut down on people playing kamikaze too often. Again, no idea if that's necessary though.

 

[Cody]

<looks up> Ironman? Dead is dead! <returns to basket-weaving>

 

[TolaGarf]

I love the idea of a permadeath system! Bring it on!

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Also, maybe limit the maximum number of ironmen characters you can create to one per week, to cut down on people playing kamikaze too often. Again, no idea if that's necessary though.

I don't believe that would be necessary.

You're limited to 3 commanders anyway and if you only want to play in Ironman, but you already used your "quota" then it would be a little annoying having to wait ...

If people Kamikaze, well that's their problem