Horizons Is Arsenic a poisoned chalice? (NB - Not "how to find it" - discussion about published percentages.)

[Para Handy]

Is Arsenic a poisoned chalice? (NB - Not "how to find it" - discussion about published percentages.)

Is Arsenic a poisoned chalice?

My new commander (MacPhail the Stoker) needed to get his jump range raised as well as organize some jumponium stocks.

Finding a moon with 2.5% Arsenic seemed like a good deal. However, three hours later only 7 chunks of arsenic and a trail of surplus chunks of Tin, Molybdenum and Yttrium (all 1.3% and lower) kind of puts a lie to the statistics on the system map:

So is Arsenic just totally screwed-up?

I mean it is not even supposed to be rare but just aaarrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhhhh.

(I am off to do the washing-up and try to get that awful drone of the SRV motor out of my brain.)

 

[ChipStar65]

I mentioned a dearth of Arsenic in another thread and got a recommendation:
POSSIBLY ARSENIC

 

[Para Handy]

I mentioned a dearth of Arsenic in another thread and got a recommendation:
POSSIBLY ARSENIC

Thanks for that but the only source of Arsenic in Himang has a 2.2% occurrence so even worse than the example I am referring to.

https://www.edsm.net/en/system/bodies/id/1432/name/Himang

I understand it is all RNG determined but a 2.5% seed should produce more than twice those of 1.2% seeded elements, that is my complaint and from your referenced thread (and others), I am not the only one who finds that As is very under-produced.

 

[Zerocz]

Remember, it's procedurally generated, NOT random. Are you on a plateau? In a ravine? Maybe try inside a crater.
I like to look for overlapping craters. If I don't find the material I'm after inside, I just check the area outside the crater instead. Usually find it without too much fuss.

 

[ChipStar65]

I'm going to be checking out Europa soon, reported as 1.6% As and half that for Antimony, which I do not have as yet. I'll let you know. I understand it's all statistical but as with the Synthesis needs for chaff (another thread), I tend to take the %s with great grains of NaCl.

 

[Para Handy]

Remember, it's procedurally generated, NOT random. Are you on a plateau? In a ravine? Maybe try inside a crater.
I like to look for overlapping craters. If I don't find the material I'm after inside, I just check the area outside the crater instead. Usually find it without too much fuss.

Firstly, let me be clear, I have been playing over 2years and 8months and never had issues with As before (checking my other commanders {yeah, sad innit} they have loads still) it is only after this clear save "new commander" that I have had issues with it and, since this is the first time this commander has gone prospecting, I am referring to this specific location.

Secondly, well it is not exactly purely procedurally generated, yes the planet is and will be the same each time you come back to it but the non-persistent surface items, meteorites, outcrops and poi "stuff", are not produced in the same place but are generated each visit (presumably with some seeding) however (as I understand it) the content of meteorites and outcrops is RNG. So a 1.2% seeded element should be half as abundant as a 2.4% seeded element - that is my issue.

I know about surface location (ravine, undulating, crater, etc) and of course I look to that too.

So as I say, I have never experienced issues with this element before but found this disparity between stated levels of occurrence and reality rather perturbing.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Deciat 6d is a

Rocky world with little or no surface metal content. Worlds like this have lost most of their volatiles due to past heating, and any metallic content will form a small central core.

Try Deciat 1, it only has 1.9% but it is a metal rich world.

Metal rich worlds like this have a large metallic core, with plentiful metallic ores even at the surface. In places, especially around areas of past or current volcanism or liquid erosion, some higher metals can be found in their elemental form too. Mining is therefore very efficient, so these worlds are highly valued.

edit:

Deciat 4 is also MRW, but it has 2.1%.

Correction, Deciat 4 is a

High metal content world with a metallic core. Worlds like this can have metallic ores near the surface in places, especially around areas of past volcanism.

Both are probably a better bet than 6D.

 

[JetsonRING]

I suggest you ignore the percentages, they do not seem to correlate very well with reality. Find a planet with Arsenic, in any percentage and start prospecting in fact, I have found the planets where I find the most arsenic is on planets where I am trying to find something completely different. o7

 

[Lightspeed]

It's not to do with your new commander. I have had ups and downs with arsenic every time I look for it. Mostly downs. It's a pain, a dreadful time sink in the SRV and I don't know why FD designed it this way.

 

[ChipStar65]

Report from Europa, nominally 1.6% Arsenic (Grade 3), 0.8% Antimony (Grade 5, for comparison): Busted up about a dozen each of Mesosiderites and Bronze Chondrites, plus 4 Metallic Meteorites and an Automated Mining Extraction site. Total 3 Arsenic (one lump), nine Antimony (3 from a Mesosiderite, 6 from the Metallic Meteorites) -- completely contrary to the rarity rating and planetary percentages, but then I prospected in a relative small area around some lucrative POIs. What it boils down to is unless you prospect over the majority of a planetoid's surface, your results will always be skewed by a small sampling, which is unhealthy for statistical analysis. Persistence pays.

 

[Para Handy]

Deciat 6d is a

................

The make-up of the body is pretty irrelevant when you consider that it is from meteorites that I am obtaining the materials. The few outcrops that occurred were not really considered by me (although I "mined" them anyway).

I suggest you ignore the percentages, they do not seem to correlate very well with reality. Find a planet with Arsenic, in any percentage and start prospecting in fact, I have found the planets where I find the most arsenic is on planets where I am trying to find something completely different. o7

It's not to do with your new commander. I have had ups and downs with arsenic every time I look for it. Mostly downs. It's a pain, a dreadful time sink in the SRV and I don't know why FD designed it this way.

This is my point, the percentage "abundance" should be a (rough) guide to the incidence of an element. I don't expect to find a trio of Polonium MMs on a world that doesn't list Polonium as being present. When I am told that there is more than twice the amount of Arsenic than Yttrium though, I don't expect to find 7 chunks of Arsenic but over 40 chunks of Yttrium (chunks not store items, I stopped picking them up at 78 stored, never going to need that much anyway, got to dump some) as well as loads of Tin and Molybdenum.

In brief, I am not asking how to find stuff (I can always pick up more later), it is just that I was surprised at how misleading this particular place was. So I am saying that Arsenic is either specifically "suppressed" on purpose or it is just broken as far as the percentage abundance in the system map is concerned.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

go with a prospector and a lots of med mining laser into a rez zone. eg. Jupiter rings.
poke those asteroids and let your limpets pick up the arsenic

don't bother searching materials except the highest grades on planets, when you get them from mining astroids.

 

[Para Handy]

go with a prospector and a lots of med mining laser into a rez zone. eg. Jupiter rings.
poke those asteroids and let your limpets pick up the arsenic

don't bother searching materials except the highest grades on planets, when you get them from mining astroids.

You must have missed my "In brief, I am not asking how to find stuff..."

The point of the thread is the relevance (or otherwise) of the percentage figures in the system map.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

You must have missed my "In brief, I am not asking how to find stuff..."

The point of the thread is the relevance (or otherwise) of the percentage figures in the system map.

well, thats a point.
but then... as other have already pointed out, those numbers are the the composition of the WHOLE planet, not the chances for the RNG to spawn you those.

from your post its not clear if you are search at the same coordinates on the planet every time...

 

[Para Handy]

well, thats a point.
but then... as other have already pointed out, those numbers are the the composition of the WHOLE planet, not the chances for the RNG to spawn you those.

from your post its not clear if you are search at the same coordinates on the planet every time...

1. No the figures don't refer to the composition of the planet / body they are clearly labelled as "Planet Materials" and refer to the materials that may be found not only from outcrops (planet material) but from meteorites which have nothing to do with planet composition, they are deposited from space.

2. Yes sure, I spend the whole day just driving around in circles! - I did say I have been at this game a long time. (I not only travelled a fair way and mode-switched, I also got in me Cobra and moved to different places and I have spent the whole afternoon and early evening, not just the first three hours.)

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

1. No the figures don't refer to the composition of the planet / body they are clearly labelled as "Planet Materials" and refer to the materials that may be found not only from outcrops (planet material) but from meteorites which have nothing to do with planet composition, they are deposited from space.

Interesting, are you certain the game makes these distinctions in the same way?

 

[Para Handy]

Interesting, are you certain the game makes these distinctions in the same way?

yes - check the meteorites on icy bodies for example

 

[Lightspeed]

It's also a question of what "2.5% arsenic" means. If you retrieve 100 items, should it mean only 2 or 3 will be arsenic? I've often wondered, because that is a heck of a lot of searching and, even in dire circumstances, it is not usually quite that bad.

 

[ChipStar65]

It's also a question of what "2.5% arsenic" means. If you retrieve 100 items, should it mean only 2 or 3 will be arsenic? I've often wondered, because that is a heck of a lot of searching and, even in dire circumstances, it is not usually quite that bad.

Agreed, I've never found it that bad. There is also the consideration of geographical distribution -- if you collect 100 samples in a small area you are less likely to meet the statistical prediction because the % applies to planet-wide content. But this would be true only if resources are in fixed locations across the entire planet when generated, but that does not match my experience, I think the procedural generation of resources is more fluid even in a relatively small area. There are so many variables, some not really well-understood (resource gen algos, for example), that I find it better just to use the breakdown in the system map as a guide: "Yes, this planet/moon has Arsenic, and it may be easier to find than on other places with a lower percentage."

 

[avow555]

The problem is the hapless resource collection.

From detection to collection it's absolutely pathetic.

Barely even alpha build gameplay!