Modes Is attacking clean players (not npcs) in Open harassment?

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ZeroAi

ZeroAi
What's your opinion on this question today:

Is attacking other players (not npcs) in Open "harassment," if those players are clean, law abiding, and not attacking you?

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UPDATE: Not Asking About Criminal Harassment

Several posters thought I was talking about "criminal harassment?" I was not. I was asking if other players thought attacking a clean player minding his own business was harassing that player, aka harassment.

DEFINITION: Words Have Meaning

I also found many did not know the official definition of Harassment and Harassing, and it might help them to understand the dictionary has example usage of such words, including, "the squadron's task was to harass the retreating enemy forces."

BULLYING AND CRIMES: Please report them at once

I hope we can all agree insulting people, cyber bullying and stalking, and criminal harassment (physical and verbal) are all bad things, and if we believe a TOU or COC or Law has been broken that we should report it to the correct people.

I also hope most of you know that it goes without saying that shooting someone in a video game does not fall into the above categories, even if you feel like you're being harassed by "player killers" as you're simply trying to have fun. If that happens to you, by all means do the obvious and play in solo, PG, or join Mobius PG, because Elite's Open mode is unlike other open world games as it really is an "Open PvP mode."

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Original Post continued below:

Note: While similar questions have been posted in the forums previously, I was wondering what everyone thought about this now that we've had some time to experience the results of FDev's C&P changes.

Obviously irl if you hurt someone minding their own business obeying the law, it definitely IS harassment. But is it harassment to do the same in a game?

Also, if Elite is meant to be a fun game, should players in Open have the option to opt into (or out of) PvP? Or, if Elite is meant to be realistic, shouldn't murder in game result in life imprisonment?

What's your thoughts?

MY OPINION:

For me, attacking clean players in Open who are obviously not engaging in combat is like a interrupting a public chess game by knocking the table over.

While not prevented by design (and obviously allowed / legal in game,) I do think it is harassing / greifing / annoyingly bad behavior which I believe leads most players to play in Solo or PG, but that's just one player's opinion!
 
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bitstorm

bitstorm
Not so black and white as "well is it or isn't it".

Generally no it's not harrassment because it's a game, and being able to attack someone regardless of their legal status is part of the game.
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
Greylock said:
Or, if Elite is meant to be realistic, shouldn't murder in game result in life imprisonment?
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Yes. And the victim should be death, so the product key is disabled. Realism works both ways, so dont be the kind of person to cherry pick 'realism' as an argument whenever it suits your goals. In any case, FD clearly and repeatedly said attacking clean ships is a conscious part of the design, so comparing it with 'flipping a chess board' is flat-out wrong. Anyway, you clearly dont have the mentality for Open, so by all means stay in other modes. Thats what they are for.
 

[VR] M4st0d0n

[VR] M4st0d0n
True story is...

It is harassment, if you're streaming. Just report your aggressor and mention his/her "streamsniping". You'll get a refund of your rebuy from support.

As long as this game doesn't offer proper consensual pvp options we'll all have to deal with this nonsense.
 

C64Fan

C64Fan
Greylock said:
What's your opinion on this question today:

[snip]
What's your thoughts?

For me, attacking clean players in Open who are obviously not engaging in combat is like a interrupting a public chess game by knocking the table over.

While not prevented by design, it is harassing / greifing / annoyingly bad behavior which I believe leads most players to play in Solo or PG, but that's just one player's opinion!
Click to expand...

For me attacking a clean player who is only doing his/her own business is bad behavior. I wouldn’t call it harassment though, cause that sort of implies that it’s something you can report players to FD for - and I wouldn’t go that far if it only happens once or twice. But bad behavior - yes.
 
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RymdLazer

RymdLazer
Nah. It's harassment if you blow someone up and proceed to hunt them afterwards or blockade a port and repeatedly kill someone trying to get away.

Someone might be an a-hole in character and that's different from being a a-hole player :)
 

Frank Craft

F
The real question is whether it is right or wrong to be a jerk in-game. Or, put another way, whether to subscribe to Wheaton's law or not.

And each player must decide.

However, the player on the receiving end can act accordingly. They can high wake out, they can block the player, or use the 15 second timer.
 

Winterwalker

Winterwalker
M4st0d0n said:
As long as this game doesn't offer proper consensual pvp options we'll all have to deal with this nonsense.
Click to expand...

Powerplay does offer that and outside it things get tricky if crime penalties for killing are too harsh, because that kills piracy as a game. I agree with others that if you pin someone down and won't let them undock again and again it borders on bullying but harassment? No, you can always play solo.

If you click to load the game in open, then you just consented to the risk, so it aint harassment.
 
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Riverside

Riverside
I think the OP's premise is flawed, but as they say, it's their opinion & they are entitled to it.

IRL harassment cannot be completely prevented, it can only be punished and discouraged with consequences that are well understood. A part of the games design is to allow the player to be a baddie, dealing with the consequences of being a baddie is a part of that style of play.

So there will always be victims, and sometimes that victim is you (the reader). I derive gameplay from minimising the chances of it being me. The question of whether the current level of punishment is enough to maintain some reasonable balance is one worth considering though. Personally I'm happier with the current system than all previous ones all things considered.
 
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[VR] M4st0d0n

[VR] M4st0d0n
Winterwalker said:
Powerplay does offer that and outside it things get tricky if crime penalties for killing are too harsh, because that kills piracy as a game. I agree with others that if you pin someone down and won't let them undock again and again it borders on bullying but harassment? No, you can always play solo.

If you click to load the game in open, then you just consented to the risk, so it aint harassment.
Click to expand...

Piracy is dead. Powerplay is just another grind. Streamsniping is harrassment. Find me ingame with my stream and pvp me now, I dare you.
 

Jack Wilmslow

Jack Wilmslow
This is a dicey subject haha! But honestly ... No, it isn't harassment. All kills in open are fair game ... however ...

A heads up with an intent, or a reason for doing so (i.e. piracy, blockading system, wanting cargo, looking for a fight etc) would be more welcome and in the spirit of fair play (re:Not being a ). I'd be more annoyed if you just ed me from supercruise and blasted me without a handshake or a cordial warning (i'd prob still loose to you even if i did put up a fight), but i'd just log into solo sort myself out and avoid that system, but giving me a warning or just communicating would give me more of a reason to engage in gameplay, maybe rally a police action, maybe even join you in your piracy/blockade, maybe even make friends.

If ya just blasting people for the 'lulz' and being silent etc ... i'd just sooner block you. And that makes me sad.
 

wrmiller

W
Riverside said:
I think the OP's premise is flawed, but as they say, it's their opinion & they are entitled to it.
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You may have a point, regarding the OP's premise. As for opinions, well, while everyone is entitled to their opinions that doesn't make some of them worth listening to. ;)

Carebears and sociopaths... I wonder how many pages this will end up being. *sigh*
 
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Braandlin

Braandlin
No, it isn't harassment.

The game is intended to have PvP action.

However the balance of C&P is still wrong, meaning that we don't yet have a great way of having more peaceful members of the community and PvP players interacting meaningfully in open. But then we do have solo and PG and we often play there, despite the ongoing calls to outlaw various activities from solo etc.
 

Kingtutuk

Kingtutuk
Again with this...... There are thousands of different ways FD could handle this. So.....
Instead of "Harassing" each other, why dont we Harass FD on the Sugg n Feed forum threads until we get what we, the players, want.
In the mean time "pew pew"
By the way i am quite happy in solo or private group [cool] :p
 

Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
Short answer: No.

Long Answer: Nope.

It is, however, a symptom of the fact that Frontier didn’t think things through when they decided that freeform PvP would be a thing in this game. Out of context player killing is what you get when the game fails to allow players to declare for a side (see Powerplay vs the rest of the game), and the frequency it happens is directly proportional to how heavy the penalties for such behavior is. For example, a system designed to make criminal gameplay vs NPCs more fun and challenging isn’t likely to deter players who enjoy player killing.

To use a recent example, a player group declared their intention to blockade a certain system in support of their chosen minor faction. Given that this declaration happened on the forums, and how frequently most players in any game visit them frequently (i.e the 1-9-90 rule) maintaining this blockade will appear to be a random, out of context player-killing nearly every time.

Now imagine what would happen if they could declare their support or enmity towards minor factions in the game. Incoming players could show up as allied, neutral, or hostile based on their declarations or even who they’re running missions for. Players could even be rewarded for their actions, based on the opposition they face.

All this requires development resources, of course. Not only for the system itself, but hardening the system against the inevitable ways such a system can be exploited to cause grief in the game.
 
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