Is charging more money for poor game design justified?

[mysterydiseased]

Alright. The dust has settled following the release of the DLC and Update 1.5. Minds are somewhat more clear again, and less frenzied. And everyone has got their pants back on. Right... ?

I'm not going super high effort here. I've ranted just a little bit here and elsewhere about my super big problem with 'comfort genes' being pay-only. Those obviously needed to be free for all players to enjoy. After all, what other options were there to remedy super-restrictive, tight-lidded game design. What could help with the social limits that were made? The population limits? The odd forest/grassland system that many dinosaurs could never get along with?


To paraphrase BestInSlot from his review of The Secrets of Dr. Wu DLC:

"[Comfort Genes] are a BIG deal. They will have long-lasting ramifications from now until the end of JWE's lifespan."


That's... some game-changing stuff. Those genes completely transform how someone can approach building their enclosures and greater park design. They help make the game immeasurably more enjoyable. Some have even said that those comfort genes are worth the full price of the DLC alone! Wow...

Players like me, who found no enjoyment in playing the base game no thanks to the poor, bare-bones, and restrictive design needed something like this, for free of course. Some earned through free gameplay rewards to, you know, actually have some more flexibility and customization. I just simply wanted to enjoy the game more. JWE has been in dire need of quality of life improvements since it's been officially released. When and how did it become 'a thing' to charge money so that your terribly behaved dinosaurs (a product of poor design choice) can have some less restrictive behavior options? How is there a price on A.I. being able to recognize another of its own species (kinda funny when two Spinosaurs can co-exist just fine in the base game!), or recognizing its environment?

Those comfort genes -- which are behavior traits -- should have all been made available as a part of the base game, and I'll maintain that until the end. It was not cool to throw them in together and try to incentivize some "hybrid expansion". Everyone will say that those hybrids weren't necessary at all and are not a game-changer. Additional behavior traits for your dinosaurs, however, were absolutely necessary considering that they had bare minimum A.I. to begin with.


I'm turning this thread over to you all. Take it all over... it's yours.

 

[MarcWP]

Well they use workhours with every update, so I can totally understand why they would like to be paid for their work... I don't wanna work for free either. Don't know about you.

At the end of the day, they are a business. And it's only 15$. That's like two pizzas. Won't bankrupt anyone... If you have a firm principle of not buying DLC's, that's your call mate. But it's not like Frontier owe us anything. The fact that they keep improving the game is incredible... Not many companies will put in the time and money, to satisfy their customers like that, after a release.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

TL;DR: Op is entitled and wants free stuff.

 

[South Tyrant]

Well they use workhours with every update, so I can totally understand why they would like to be paid for their work... I don't wanna work for free either. Don't know about you.

At the end of the day, they are a business. And it's only 15$. That's like two pizzas. Won't bankrupt anyone... If you have a firm principle of not buying DLC's, that's your call mate. But it's not like Frontier owe us anything. The fact that they keep improving the game is incredible... Not many companies will put in the time and money, to satisfy their customers like that, after a release.

I totally agree with you!!!

 

[Alan_Grady]

I also think Frontier deserves being payed for all the work they're putting into this game so I wouldn't expect any DLC for free. They already delivered fantastic updates for free.

Having said that, however, I agree on the bundle note: some of this new additions could have easily be offered as separate DLC packs with their corresponding prices. I would gladly have bought everything, even the seemingly useless new Storm Defense Station, just no the hybrids. That's why I'm not buying this one.

Forcing them into the whole prize was a cheap move from Universal, because I'm sure that particular DLC wouldn't have sold as well as the rest of the things otherwise. But that's my only complaint, I'm just equally happy playing the game without this genes.

 

[Dorian1334]

It's pretty disappointing the devs have started selling important gameplay features as DLC. I can completely understand having new dinosaurs or even new maps as DLC, but things that are required to make the game functional should be included in updates, not DLC. Like I said, I'm even willing to pay for better (ie. bigger) maps if they ever want to sell those. Hell, I play Total War a lot so I'm used to being shafted by DLC, but even those guys don't put basic gameplay stuff behind a paywall. It'd be like paying for better public order buildings in the campaign map lol

 

[Phantomreaver85]

They can charge whatever they want for anything they want......but having said that, I will not be giving a dime towards dlc until the game is fixed up some more.

Fact is the updates they have given us more than likely came from fan anger and the threat of a stain on their reputation and not doing it just for our sake. As I have said before the update ratio is subjective. There was an infamous game (wont say the name) that came out in 2016 that everyone hated it was extremely shallow and bare bones like jurassic world was at launch and honestly, aside from the AI improvements, JWE is still incredibly shallow. The 2016 game now gets updates and new content pretty much every other week and has yet to release a single paid dlc.

Another game I own. (The only Early access game to not bite me in the ) actually had a coundown timer in the game menu itself letting you know exactly when the next patch or content pack would hit and all new content was free.

See everybody plays different games with different levels of support behind them....now because of my personal experiences with some really great companies, it now looks to me personaly that frontier is just basically doin the bare minimum.

There first "content update" basicaly just fixed the broken food meter. Also added a challenge mode where the only real difference gameplay wise, other than raised difficulty, is a magical pixie comes and raids your bank account.

The second allowed dinosaurs to follow other dinosaurs designated a leader and added a day night cycle that is just a tweak of what was already in game and added a sleeping mechanic which is literally just a tranqed dino animation that occurs randomly. Neither of which seems like it would have taken much time or effort to impliment.

I, like many, paid $60 at launch and the game was no where near worth that. I personally won't be giving them a dime till the base game is actually worth that $60.

 

[Player 99234567]

I'm sorry, with all of the free updates they have been giving us (in a timely manner at that) it is completely justified. Yes I hate hybrids and the comfort genes are the most important part of the first paid DLC, but I am more than happy to pay for that considering Frontier deserves it.

Not only that considering how game breaking the actual comfort genes are it is definitely worthy of being DLC. I have played a good 100+ hours before this DLC came out without the genes and was able to make great parks with no issues. I STILL play without using the genes most of the time because I feel like it is cheating, although I love having the option to use them and certainly do from time to time. Keep in mind that the first DLC comes with more than just the genes and the three hybrids. You also get two new maps with probably the best scenarios yet in the game, two relatively cool new regular dinos and more all for just $15 when they easily could have just sold the 5 dinos for that.

 

[Phantomreaver85]

I'm sorry, with all of the free updates they have been giving us (in a timely manner at that) it is completely justified. Yes I hate hybrids and the comfort genes are the most important part of the first paid DLC, but I am more than happy to pay for that considering Frontier deserves it.

Not only that considering how game breaking the actual comfort genes are it is definitely worthy of being DLC. I have played a good 100+ hours before this DLC came out without the genes and was able to make great parks with no issues. I STILL play without using the genes most of the time because I feel like it is cheating, although I love having the option to use them and certainly do from time to time. Keep in mind that the first DLC comes with more than just the genes and the three hybrids. You also get two new maps with probably the best scenarios yet in the game, two relatively cool new regular dinos and more all for just $15 when they easily could have just sold the 5 dinos for that.

Ok timely manner? Its been over 6 months since launch and we have recieved really only 2 small updates that werent specifically bug fixes and even counting those I think we have only got 4 or 5 total...that is neither timely for a game in this day and age nor is it in any way shape or form alot of content for free....maybe its different for pc but on ps4 the support has been lackluster at best compared to alot of other devs.

 

[Roybe]

If you ain't feeling it...stop playing it...and move along! Frontier is, first and foremost, a profit making venture. If their design is so bad...people will leave in droves. Then they will improve the game...or abandon it. See how you feel when either happens...and play...or do not!

 

[Phantomreaver85]

If you ain't feeling it...stop playing it...and move along! Frontier is, first and foremost, a profit making venture. If their design is so bad...people will leave in droves. Then they will improve the game...or abandon it. See how you feel when either happens...and play...or do not!

Yea cause alot of us are ok with just wasting $60, if this game was $20 or $30 at launch then that would be a much easier thing to do.

But I am not in the habit of wasting money. I stopped buying games at launch but made an exception for JWE, an exception I will never make again.

Hate to say it but with how things are going in the game development industry these days as a whole, not any specific dev, and also the majority of problems come from publishers but, I may just need to find myself a new hobby.

 

[Roybe]

Yea cause alot of us are ok with just wasting $60, if this game was $20 or $30 at launch then that would be a much easier thing to do.

But I am not in the habit of wasting money. I stopped buying games at launch but made an exception for JWE, an exception I will never make again.

Hate to say it but with how things are going in the game development industry these days as a whole, not any specific dev, and also the majority of problems come from publishers but, I may just need to find myself a new hobby.

People have buyers remorse daily...this might be the first time you are disappointed in a companies product but it won't be the last. Learn from your mistake and stop putting good money after bad (in your opinion). This is the power of the consumer writ large. Good luck in your next choice.

 

[Phantomreaver85]

People have buyers remorse daily...this might be the first time you are disappointed in a companies product but it won't be the last. Learn from your mistake and stop putting good money after bad (in your opinion). This is the power of the consumer writ large. Good luck in your next choice.

You make a good point I will admit that.

I just miss the good old days when games didn't release unfinished or totally broken. There are still very good devs out there but unfortunately they have become the minority as video games are no longer a passion project, but a business meant to extract as much money from you as possible just like any other.

I guess this one in particular is just more disapointing to me because I love jurassic park and when I heard frontier was doing it I had no doubts it would be a truly awesome park simulator....then I played the game and after 4 hours there was nothing left to do but repeat everything I just did.

So yea buyers remorse is definitely correct.

But also as I said before there are some much smaller devs putting much more time and effort into either polishing or fixing their product than I have seen from frontier when it come to JWE. So that part does irk me a bit regardless.

 

[Player 99234567]

Ok timely manner? Its been over 6 months since launch and we have recieved really only 2 small updates that werent specifically bug fixes and even counting those I think we have only got 4 or 5 total...that is neither timely for a game in this day and age nor is it in any way shape or form alot of content for free....maybe its different for pc but on ps4 the support has been lackluster at best compared to alot of other devs.

You're selling them really short. Both of the free updates were the top most asked for things by the community. I never once cared about the sizes of the dinos but there was a huge vocal minority that did and that was made a priority first and foremost. Since then we have also had hunting, herding, and plenty of other to the point where this forum has died down since other than adding content there really isnt much to fix or to add. The only thing I could think of that could be fixed as of now is the guest system and maybe the combat neither of which I care about. The only two things I want from frontier right now is a huge Decor / terrain tool update/dlc and the last 6 remaining JPOG dinos both of which I am willing to pay for.

On another note I have not seen you mention anything as to what needs to fixed or added to make you satisfied other than wanting the comfort genes for free.

 

[Phantomreaver85]

You're selling them really short. Both of the free updates were the top most asked for things by the community. I never once cared about the sizes of the dinos but there was a huge vocal minority that did and that was made a priority first and foremost. Since then we have also had hunting, herding, and plenty of other to the point where this forum has died down since other than adding content there really isnt much to fix or to add. The only thing I could think of that could be fixed as of now is the guest system and maybe the combat neither of which I care about. The only two things I want from frontier right now is a huge Decor / terrain tool update/dlc and the last 6 remaining JPOG dinos both of which I am willing to pay for.

On another note I have not seen you mention anything as to what needs to fixed or added to make you satisfied other than wanting the comfort genes for free.

What I want is more building space.

I would like some sort of decorations to make the parks actually feel unique.

I would like the fences to actually work relative to size because there is no way a raptor should ever be able to break through a 20 some odd inch thick concrete wall that has steel rebar in it for reinforcement, unless it was built by someone very crooked or very dumb, when the indominus rex in the movie couldn't even break his concrete enclosure.

I want guests to actually have diverse needs like OG did instead of just being window dressing.

In general I just want more management options.

I would like there to be more than just 1 single kill animation shared for all the big carivourous species.

And better terrain tools.

Those are just the things off the top of my head.

Also either faster helicopter flight speed or for the tranq darts to cancel visitor attack animation so my ranger isn't just pumping 20 darts into a carnivores head for nothing.

Also I would like the buildings to be more lenient on where they can be placed because every playthrough I always wind up with areas that are clearly within buildable perimeter and have enough space for something but it can't be placed because of the smallest of hills.

I could state more but those are the most important things to me that need to be addressed before I consider giving any more money.

 

[stolemyname]

TL;DR: Op is entitled and wants free stuff.

Thanks for saving me the trouble.

 

[PCMR4Life]

Next time you go to work tell your boss you don't want to be paid. Tell him you are working for free cause to expect to be paid for what you do is just wrong.

I am sure he will gladly oblige.

 

[Dorian1334]

Oh yeah, they're definitely not getting a dime from me till the game is fixed. Only thing I'll budge on at this point is big maps

 

[Sokar]

Next time you go to work tell your boss you don't want to be paid. Tell him you are working for free cause to expect to be paid for what you do is just wrong.

I am sure he will gladly oblige.

This! absolutely agree. I'm tired of people who demand everything for free. In my opinion Frontier in recent months has already done wonders and I thank them.

 

[MarcWP]

They can charge whatever they want for anything they want......but having said that, I will not be giving a dime towards dlc until the game is fixed up some more.

Fact is the updates they have given us more than likely came from fan anger and the threat of a stain on their reputation and not doing it just for our sake. As I have said before the update ratio is subjective. There was an infamous game (wont say the name) that came out in 2016 that everyone hated it was extremely shallow and bare bones like jurassic world was at launch and honestly, aside from the AI improvements, JWE is still incredibly shallow. The 2016 game now gets updates and new content pretty much every other week and has yet to release a single paid dlc.

Another game I own. (The only Early access game to not bite me in the ) actually had a coundown timer in the game menu itself letting you know exactly when the next patch or content pack would hit and all new content was free.

See everybody plays different games with different levels of support behind them....now because of my personal experiences with some really great companies, it now looks to me personaly that frontier is just basically doin the bare minimum.

There first "content update" basicaly just fixed the broken food meter. Also added a challenge mode where the only real difference gameplay wise, other than raised difficulty, is a magical pixie comes and raids your bank account.

The second allowed dinosaurs to follow other dinosaurs designated a leader and added a day night cycle that is just a tweak of what was already in game and added a sleeping mechanic which is literally just a tranqed dino animation that occurs randomly. Neither of which seems like it would have taken much time or effort to impliment.

I, like many, paid $60 at launch and the game was no where near worth that. I personally won't be giving them a dime till the base game is actually worth that $60.

There's no need to compare it to TWO games, when there's being manufactured 1000 of games all the time. It's like saying I'm slow because I can't run besides Usain Bolt. That's something out of the ordinary. The majority of games doesn't keep getting updates and have the entire focus from the developers after launch... We're pretty fortunate that they are changing anything.

They made a game with beautiful dinosaur models and keeps updating the game. How is that a bare minimum? The bare minimum is you not wanting to pay for other peoples hard work really... And to say the updates doesn't take any effort is just being ignorant. Every little thing you change in a game, can make the whole thing run outta control.

I've played the game for NUMEROUS hours, even though I think it could be upgraded with quite a few things... But just by the hours I've giving the game, makes it worth 60$ imo. And that's pretty much the standard gaming price. Think of how many games they actually have to sell, to break-even?? It's not cheap to make a game from scratch, so why should we be...