is elite a simulator, a mmorpg, a board game, or something else?

[jmg]

I've just started diving into powerplay... and holy carp, what an ungainly, unnecessarily complicated, arbitrary mess.
What struck me the most about this is -- where the heck is ED going with this?
In the (hopefully now defunct) 100 page thread on the 10% module issue, scores of people weighed in saying it was necessary for realism. with the new powerplay, it strikes me that elite has zero ties to realism, whether its a made up sci-fi reality or otherwise. Powerplay just kills any immersion, or sense of realism. Powerplay makes this game seem like a board game with live action.... kinda like archon, or strategy. OR at some level, more like D&D than a live sim/game.
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I can already anticipate the "just ignore it and quit crying" responses. And that's pretty much what I intend to do, but I can't help feel that I've completely missed the point of something that is so utterly pervasive in the game. Was this type of board-game conquest mentality in the old elite? is this just a nod to legacy?
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Anyway, what the heck is elite supposed to be these days? Am I missing some deeper level of gameplay introduced through powerplay? it seems so artificial and contrived, with silly rules the devs made up... I can almost hear the die rolling in the background to see if a particular power properly "prepared" a system. Maybe I'm going too far -- I play "conquest" games on android all the time, and like them... but is that REALLY the direction ED should be moving in? With so many basic things still broken, *this* is what we get?
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This isn't yet another "look what the devs %%'d up" thread, I really feel like I'm missing something here. Did I misunderstand that this is supposed to be, at some level, a sim with some mmorpg elements? IS this a really a sim in any way? is it a "board" game-- an iPhone conquest type game with some live action thrown in?
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Really don't know what to make of this game anymore, or its direction.

 

[Arjin]

It's an simmorpgriskagame™



ok ok elaboration It's a space simulation game that is played like an MMORPG even though you can play it solo with varying influences of a popular board game.

 

[MegaJohnny]

I agree entirely. For a game that oozes atmosphere and immersion on the ground level, Powerplay feels very out of place, like a poor-quality MMO faction war was pasted in from a different game. There's a jarring disconnect between PP and the rest of the game - you can see this in that the powers have little effect on the influence of the real minor factions, in that there's commodities just for PP with no real use or economic value, in that you can have an Imperial system which is controlled by the president of the Federation (?????)

 

[ACenterForAnts]

I did try to read the Powerplay instruction book but the whole thing seemed too contrived, awkward and unnecessary.

I bought into a spaceship/trading simulator not a very poor politics boardgame

 

[Katkon]

It's a card game. If you're using your PC you're doing something wrong.

 

[jmg]

It's a card game. If you're using your PC you're doing something wrong.

HA!
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This is an actual quote from the pp manual. Page 5. This is as far as I got. Seriously, this is NOT a simulator, not a space game, and as far as I can tell, has nothing to do with elite's roots. And one top of it, they must have flagged an intern to draft this, because it's barely understandable. I stopped reading after this... unless I'm missing something subtle, this is not the game I bought-- seriously, this could be talking about "gems" and "powercrystals" from any other online conquest gam- who wrote this garbage?

PREPARATION AND THE GALAXY MAP

You can use the galaxy map to help you view potential candidates for preparation, by selecting the "Powerplay" view, choosing your power from the drop down selection then activating the "Expansion" filter.

The Expansion view shows all systems outside your control with the following identification markers:

 Colour is used to denote value of a system if it was controlled:

[FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o
[/FONT][/FONT]Green are the most profitable, red are the least profitable, orange are average

[FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o
[/FONT][/FONT]Grey systems would actually cost CC upkeep to maintain, even after all the income had been harvested from exploited systems

 Hollow systems cannot be prepared, for one of the following reasons:

[FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o
[/FONT][/FONT]The upkeep cost is greater than the powers entire CC reserve that cycle

[FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o
[/FONT][/FONT]Another power is controlling the system

[FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o
[/FONT][/FONT]Another power is exploiting the system

[FONT=Courier New,Courier New][FONT=Courier New,Courier New]o
[/FONT][/FONT]Another power is attempting an expansion that would cause the system to be exploited if it is successful

 Systems that are uninhabited are not displayed at all


Top ten preparation entries are displayed in the powerplay galaxy map when the "expansion" filter is active. Each such system has a number entry above it, denoting its top ten preparation status.

Rolling over or selecting a system summons an information panel giving more details as well as highlighting all systems that would be exploited if this were a control system.

 

[B33 ENN]

What struck me the most about this is -- where the heck is ED going with this? ...it strikes me that elite has zero ties to realism, whether its a made up sci-fi reality or otherwise.

I would say it's a game not a simulation by any stretch. It incorporates some aspects of simulation, but also of many other systems, such as arcade games, strategy games, and multi-player RPGs.

So, it, like may other games out there, is something of a hybrid, I would say. Arguments about "realism" are generally an expression of immersion problems that crops up, and shouldn't be interpreted literally.

...Powerplay just kills any immersion, or sense of realism.

Ah...

Don't know about that as I haven't been interested to pledge, but I have found PP has added to my immersion with all the Power controlled space regions. I now use that Power Galaxy Map view to see where I could exploit trading or bounty hunting opportunities, and plan routes from it.

I like that these differing parties with their individual ethos have provided the relatively dead galaxy with some personality and colour. For instance, I "live" around the Lavian zone. When I switched this new system on, I couldn't see any Power around me, but as I zoomed out I saw all the areas where they are through which I do a lot of trading.

I don't know if I'll ever pledge, but PP has really begun to give me some new perspectives on how I'll play my game going forward.

Anyway, what the heck is elite supposed to be these days? Am I missing some deeper level of gameplay introduced through powerplay? it seems so artificial and contrived, with silly rules the devs made up... Really don't know what to make of this game anymore, or its direction.

Isn't that true about most every aspect of the game's previous ruleset too, though? I mean, for example, no one questions that:

1. You only get scanned by System Authority vessels outside a station occasionally, but that the stations themsleves give anyone docking permission without a scan, and don't have any customs process for ships once they dock inside? And if you do get scanned, and fined for, say, illegal cargo, you are still allowed in to trade it?

2. Parking offences incur death penalties? Yet there is no traffic control precedure for ships entering or leaving the station or attempting to queue for docking?

3. How come repairs are carried out on the surface level of the pad, and not require you to go into the hangar? Or, for that matter, why do repairs and refuels only take a second?

4. How can the flight computer navigate you automatically between stars in hyperspace, but cannot automate locking on and pointing your ship at a Supercruise target, rather than require you to keep fiddling with the joystick as it drifts off centre? And since it can control your speed automatically at 75% throttle past the 7 second window, why can't it then also automate the process of exiting once you're within the distance-speed threshold, rather than require you to press the button?

5. So why in space does my ship slow down after I hit boost, even in FA/Off?

6. ...etc. ​

And we could go on and on... So, you see, the game is full of arbitrary mechanics borrowed from here and there for no other logic besides gameplay reasons.

 

[Captain N]

My initial reaction was pretty similar to yours, with all the weird boardgamey mechanics, but the more I play the game the more I'm convinced PP greatly improves the game, particularly in open.

Just the combination of the three simple facts that you now have a means of identifying player pirates, have a general idea where you can find them, and that they actually have bounties on their heads makes bounty hunting awesome.

Every time you see a player aligned to a power you can deduce a little bit of who they are, what they are doing and why they are in the place you found them.

Simple mechanics that add meaning to encounters and dynamism and life to the galaxy.

 

[Katkon]

I found the attached mini guide posted by a player to be one of the better gameplay summaries.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=154195&highlight=Powerplay+manual

Fergal also posted a good explanation of some of the in-game screenshots...

 

[Zelos1983]

In essence, I view E as a dumbed-down remake of Frontier (arcady flight model!) with added, optional multiplayer.

 

[kreuzbichler]

I use it as a hyperspace screensaver and playing late on a relaxing route is good for sleep problems.

 

[Beetlebum]

I would say it's a game not a simulation by any stretch. It incorporates some aspects of simulation, but also of many other systems, such as arcade games, strategy games, and multi-player RPGs.

So, it, like may other games out there, is something of a hybrid, I would say. Arguments about "realism" are generally an expression of immersion problems that crops up, and shouldn't be interpreted literally.



Ah...

Don't know about that as I haven't been interested to pledge, but I have founf PP has added to my immersion with all the Power controlled space regions. I now use that Power Galaxy Map view to see where I could exploit trading or bounty hunting opportunities, and plan routes from it.

I like that these differing parties with their individual ethos have provided the relatively dead galaxy with some personality and colour. For instance, I "live" around the Lavian zone. When I switched this new system on, I couldn't see any Power around me, but as I zoomed out I saw all the areas where they are through which I do a lot of trading.

I don't know if I'll ever pledge, but PP has really begun to give me some new perspectives on how I'll play my game going forward.



Isn't that true about most every aspect of the game's previous ruleset too, though? I mean, for example, no one questions that:

1. You only get scanned by System Authority vessels outside a station occasionally, but that the stations themsleves give anyone docking permission without a scan, and don't have any customs process for ships once they dock inside? And if you do get scanned, and fined for, say, illegal cargo, you are still allowed in to trade it?

2. Parking offences incur death penalties? Yet there is no traffic control precedure for ships entering or leaving the station or attempting to queue for docking?

3. How come repairs are carried out on the surface level of the pad, and not require you to go into the hangar? Or, for that matter, why do repairs and refuels only take a second?

4. How can the flight computer navigate you automatically between stars in hyperspace, but cannot automate locking on and pointing your ship at a Supercruise target, rather than require you to keep fiddling with the joystick as it drifts off centre? And since it can control your speed automatically at 75% throttle past the 7 second window, why can't it then also automate the process of exiting once you're within the distance-speed threshold, rather than require you to press the button?

5. So why in space does my ship slow down after I hit boost, even in FA/Off?

6. ...etc. ​

And we could go on and on... So, you see, the game is full of arbitrary mechanics borrowed from here and there for no other logic besides gameplay reasons.

Excellent post! I agree on every point. PP has added to my immersion.

 

[Kyudos]

I kind of agree with the OP - I don't see much that is attractive or engaging in the PP mechanic itself (though I appreciate the fixes and improvements in the general game). That said I'd also counter with this:

How would the OP create an in-game system that allows us, effectively insignificant plebs on the galactic scale, to contribute meaningfully to galactic politics whilst avoiding any sort of 'strategy' or 'board gamey' type tropes? Bearing in mind also that FDev have made it pretty clear that they don't intend players to ever be running the show?

I don't think you have missed any deep underlying 'something' that PP brings to the game, and thus I think it is perfectly valid to say 'if it doesn't interest you, don't engage with it'/ The only aspect of the game you are 'missing' is PP. Its just the same with any other aspect - if trading doesn't interest you, don't do it...if exploration isn't your thing, stay at home.

 

[Krieger]

Does it matter? How about playing it for a few weeks and see if you like it?

 

[jmg]

Does it matter? How about playing it for a few weeks and see if you like it?

.

Of course it matters. If I wanted "strategy" or "conquest," that's what I'd play. Powerplay is a nightmare, and because its so pervasive, changes the entire dynamic ... There can be no argument that ED is a "simulator". it's a roll the dice, fight to enforce made up rules, arbitrary mess.

- - - Updated - - -

How would the OP create an in-game system that allows us, effectively insignificant plebs on the galactic scale, to contribute meaningfully to galactic politics whilst avoiding any sort of 'strategy' or 'board gamey' type tropes? Bearing in mind also that FDev have made it pretty clear that they don't intend players to ever be running the show?

How about this .. develop a story. House Atradius is invading the Drakonis. Sign up at Leto station for combat. they can develop the story based on how things come out of the battle -- or not. similar to how community events are now, just on a galactic scale.
I hate to always bring up star wars galaxies online, but they did things really well.. they would have an ongoing war, between say the wookies and the hutts. They would have a massive PVP battle front at a particular station with capitaol ships on each side that would last a certain amount of time. missions would be different at certain times-- at one point, you may be escorting a blockade runner if a reb, or trying to break the blockade if empire. Maybe a duke -it-out between reb and empire capitol ships. the outcome of that battle would have some impact on the war -- not a direct impact, but an impact. You could also declare which side you wanted to be on, and a Player on the other side would see you as an "enemy" and could kill you without repercussion. And that's just off the top of my head.
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PP is such an of an effort... yes, I appreciate the other much -needed fixes to the game, but if PP is any indication of the direction the devs intend to take ED, I'm very disappointed.

 

[Gut Rumble]

It used to be a good game , now they are turning it into a Shoot-em-up , I bet when we can land on Planets it will be like Cod lol
just give me a button where I can turn off pvp and pp as I don`t do both.

 

[jmg]

And we could go on and on... So, you see, the game is full of arbitrary mechanics borrowed from here and there for no other logic besides gameplay reasons.

yes, but there's at least a nod to reality in all those mechanics. you land at a station, they can't implement all aspects of landing, but pick what they can -- the ship scans, infractions for parking violations. You have to repair, but it only takes a few seconds.

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Powerplay just uproots the game from ANY basis even a compromise of a story -- PP turns it into a vdeo game. And not a very good one at that .
I understand why this doesn't bug you -- and this isn't a dig -- but if you expected nothing more from ED than a shallow arbitrary game, pp will not disappoint. I expected a little more I guess.

 

[GriM_AoD]

The basics of powerplay are rather simple imo.
Yes initially, it was this big ball of uncertainty for me, but upon closer look at the basics, it made sense quite quickly.

 

[jmg]

The basics of powerplay are rather simple imo.
Yes initially, it was this big ball of uncertainty for me, but upon closer look at the basics, it made sense quite quickly.

Maybe it's simple, maybe it isn't. solitaire is simple. So is monopoly. Neither have a place in a game like Ed.

 

[Lobstris]

I agree that PowerPlay is unnecessary, and shows a lack of direction regarding the background simulation, which should be driving events for the major factions, *not* the players. However, if the alteration of system's owners actually has meaningful changes to the markets and activity in systems, then perhaps it can be tolerated as bringing dynamism to the galaxy, in lieu of a fully working background simulation at present? I'd have much rather AI wingmen. crews, passenger missions etc. were in before all of PowerPlay, but apparently we've got to have a domination metagame in there to keep people interested and involved, rather than an actual 'simulation'.
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I was also waiting on a random event generator to be implemented too for natural disasters that can be exploited for trade benefits, but people playing the metagame won't like 'random' stuff upsetting their domination plans.