Is Engineering Exploit as bad as MONEY Exploit?

[CMDR GTR2014]

First Of all I gotta say that I farmed Precious Gems for a while, not much actually just 50M because i wanted to make an FDL for PvP (never actually did!)..

So my question is Am I better than the guys that exploited the engineering bug/exploit? I mean when people say "This wont affect you","What i do have no consequences for other people" This can be used for both cases anyway... "It's in game" also... So are those Hundreds (If not THOUSANDS) of CMDRs that exploited the Quince Data factory... REMEMBER IT"S A EXPLOIT since you need to "break" the game to get more than 3 missions of the same type, It's different from the Bio waste hauling , and shameful mode switching. Are those guys also gonna be tracked down???


I mean in the end BOTH sides broken the game and took advantage of it... but what I'm seeing is just one actually taking some heat. Is it fair FD? So You'll punish dozens for an engineering exploit but wont punish hundreds for another exploit (that is even worse TBH)...

Or the numbers are actually making everyone uncomfortable to actually take action against it?

Just My 2 Cents.

BTW for those who don't understand... YES you need to BREAK the game the same WAY for BOTH exploits addressed here.

One you need to take advantage of a menu for cheap mods.

and the other you take advantage of the server speed to grab more missions than you can take for it.

---edit---

BTW If FDev thinks that I'm in need of punishment and would take the money i exploited back I wouldn't care actually. I don't use it because I think is dirty money anyways..

---edit---


Also for those wanting do understand whats is WRONG with quince:

[video=youtube;51cm0lVxsf0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51cm0lVxsf0[/video]

Explained by the Exploiter.

Time stamp 1:00 is the explanation.

Time stamp 2:00 He demonstrates and explain how to use the exploit.

Time stamp 3:40 starts the exploit.

He is fully aware of exploiting the game mechanics to get the money...

 

[MottiKhan]

Yes, the engineering exploit is worse. It was only known to a select few (and possibly FD if the reports are true).

The multitude of credit exploits are widely known and if someone wants to do it, they can.

But I don't know what you mean by server speed. Maybe I don't want to know.

 

[Phazon Xenomorph]

They aren't "credit exploits" Mission stacking is a legit thing until Frontier physically breaks it. The Grade 5 for Grade 1 materials however IS an exploit as hell and completely unfair for those of us who didn't know and physically grinded out tons of materials like Cracked Firmware onyl to get mediocre rolls after like 200 of them and days wasted farming the materials... meanwhile people like 13th Legion exploited the living hell out of the thing (they suck apparently as pilots but fact remains they have god-grade ships).

 

[sb413197]

I do think quince was "broken" - but not because of the net hourly income, but rather that it could be done early-game, allowing for harmless anacondas and what not, it was more of an error in game design.

I did a little quince to rank from viscount to king. I was underwhelmed....I went there already elite in exploration with 2 anacondas and a billion extra in the bank so it wasn't early game, I made about 500 million while ranking. Even after the "fix" there was still good money to be made there, and even at its peak, there have always been comparable or even better moneymakers like massacres. Heck I actually could rival quince income with regular sightseeing missions in 2.2 - I had a 35 million mission that took me like 30 minutes once. Now in 2.3 I think when I do massacres it may still exceed it (board switching no longer needed and better individual mission rewards = wooooo more pewpew less soul crushing board swapping and waiting, had a faction drop 7 on me and was out the door of the station and back an hour later to grab like 80 million credits). Even regular exploration rivals it when done correctly (LYR level 5 with new discoveries focusing on habitable zones from the correct stars etc etc). All this is fine - it requires experience and skill to pull it off, differentiating it from quince.

So while quince was a problem because it allowed players to skip early game and this fixing it was good, I never really felt it to be an issue in terms of hourly income, it was never that far away from normal ways of making money.

 

[slum]

Has FDev ever called any of the generic credit farming methods, that are later patched/re-balanced, exploits? I could be wrong but I don't believe they have.

Something that people need to remember is that in this context exploits are exclusively defined by FDev; they are whatever they decide them to be. Our opinions don't really matter.

Mode-switching to refresh the mission board is another example. People still call this an exploit when I know for a fact FDev have said that it's allowed. To continue to call it an exploit only causes confusion when the code-of-conduct clearly states FDev does not tolerate the use of exploits and the use of them will be punished.

With that being said you cant compare "money exploits" to the recent engineer exploit. As far as I'm aware only one of these is an actual exploit.

 

[Wilhelm Jaeger]

Amazing...
This community will never stop surprising me. Now another hole in game comes out and OH MY GOD the DRAMA!
Still thousands used all the money exploits skipping most of their game progress by months or even more in few days and yet they find it OK and justify it.
Imho if punish anyone - wreck them all. Draconis, Robigo, Quince, Precious Gem farm and the Engineers.
Bring everyone to stone age Otherwise... stop using double standards!!!

Quince condas and vettes do affect the game even more than some low tier group out there.
Attacking people, killing them ... rebuy is not a problem now. It's like tax evasion and it's same or even worse than some eng exploit. o7

I think I know why the forums are so shiny about it... because it's the hell born PVPers! If PvEe'rs exploit it's fine!!

 

[tafkabb]

Amazing...
This community will never stop surprising me. Now another hole in game comes out and OH MY GOD the DRAMA!
Still thousands used all the money exploits skipping most of their game progress by months or even more in few days and yet they find it OK and justify it.
Imho if punish anyone - wreck them all. Draconis, Robigo, Quince, Precious Gem farm and the Engineers.
Bring everyone to stone age Otherwise... stop using double standards!!!

Quince condas and vettes do affect the game even more than some low tier group out there.
Attacking people, killing them ... rebuy is not a problem now. It's like tax evasion and it's same or even worse than some eng exploit. o7

I think I know why the forums are so shiny about it... because it's the hell born PVPers! If PvEe'rs exploit it's fine!!

Got your own fair share of drama there pal, with the CAPS and the exclamation marks!!! Have a nice cup of tea and calm down.

As for the OP, this isn't an unbalanced mechanic like Sothis/Robigo/Quince. This is a cast-iron, nailed-on exploit, kept secret by those who found it in a deliberate breach of the T&Cs.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The Engineering one is worse. Quince is open and similar things have existed for a long time. And without Quince there are dozens of other ways to get tons of credits or data and FD know about them. And Quince has been reported.

The Engineering one was sat on for over a year, and i think that is why FD got annoyed over it. Not that people used it, that they never reported it.

There could be an argument now for using the Engineer one now that FD are aware. Kind of the ball is now in FDs court to fix quickly. But since FD have announced they are going to take a hardline stance on this one, i think it would be extremely unwise to take advantage of it.

 

[SVL KrizZ]

I think any kind of exploit is bad for the game and unfair for the people who play by the rules, but this engineering exploit is the worst of all, may be even worst than all the other exploits combined. And I think Frontier Developments thinks the same way thats why the rapid response.

 

[Wilhelm Jaeger]

Imho combat logging is the worst exploit but I am just a little mouse here

 

[jasonbarron]

The Engineering one is worse. Quince is open and similar things have existed for a long time. And without Quince there are dozens of other ways to get tons of credits or data and FD know about them. And Quince has been reported.

The Engineering one was sat on for over a year, and i think that is why FD got annoyed over it. Not that people used it, that they never reported it.

There could be an argument now for using the Engineer one now that FD are aware. Kind of the ball is now in FDs court to fix quickly. But since FD have announced they are going to take a hardline stance on this one, i think it would be extremely unwise to take advantage of it.

If a player has even the remotest inclination or interest in PvP, giving or receiving, and doesn't take advantage of it, they might as well just stay out of Open. I have zero faith that Fdev is going to do anything besides close the loophole and rattle their sabers a little. The players with a hanger full of godrolled modules are most likely going to be here to stay, forever in the lead. I think I'll risk a future slap on the wrist rather than give up entirely.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

If a player has even the remotest inclination or interest in PvP, giving or receiving, and doesn't take advantage of it, they might as well just stay out of Open. I have zero faith that Fdev is going to do anything besides close the loophole and rattle their sabers a little. The players with a hanger full of godrolled modules are most likely going to be here to stay, forever in the lead. I think I'll risk a future slap on the wrist rather than give up entirely.

Your call. I think its better to play fair and hope that FD deal with those who cheat in an appropriate manner. Otherwise, by your logic, combat loggers should just keep on combat logging and not worry.

 

[Wilhelm Jaeger]

Your call. I think its better to play fair and hope that FD deal with those who cheat in an appropriate manner. Otherwise, by your logic, combat loggers should just keep on combat logging and not worry.

Agony Aunt. The moment I see combat loggers punished the moment I will start believing in FD. You are not an open player and I think you have no vague idea how abused CL is.
Have a good day!

 

[SilentFlame]

I think that's the major difference here. The easy credits weren't an exploit (mission stacking isnt an exploit). However the engineer trick is a clear exploit. You have to follow certain steps to trick the system into accepting low materials for a high roll. The credit farming on the other hand wasn't tricking the system into giving you more money when they said they'd give you less, the game was generating high paying missions, so people were accepting those missions.

I'm not saying that the credit farming didnt feel someone exploitative. But the fact of the matter is, it wasn't an exploit, the engineer trick is.

 

[Gunnet]

The engineering exploit is worse by a huge margin.

Not to mention the fact that it is indisputably a case of players knowingly abusing a glitch, whereas there's a lot of grey area in the various methods people have used to earn credits quickly. Some can be claimed to make a degree of sense in universe (like taking a contract to haul cargo, then stealing the cargo and selling it), others can be claimed to be so obvious as to appear to be intended gameplay (like accepting all of the available massacre or scan missions rather than just one). But there's just no way to paint timing menu switches to glitch the game into giving you something without taking the intended payment as anything other than cheating.

Agony Aunt. The moment I see combat loggers punished the moment I will start believing in FD. You are not an open player and I think you have no vague idea how abused CL is.
Have a good day!

Sandro said only recently that they would automatically punish deliberate ungraceful exits if there was a way to reliably differentiate them from genuine technical problems. It's not a lack of will, but a lack of means.

Players who abused the engineer exploit can be identified beyond all doubt. So Frontier's actions on the two issues are hardly comparable.

 

[Bryan K]

I do think quince was "broken" - but not because of the net hourly income, but rather that it could be done early-game, allowing for harmless anacondas and what not, it was more of an error in game design.

I did a little quince to rank from viscount to king. I was underwhelmed....I went there already elite in exploration with 2 anacondas and a billion extra in the bank so it wasn't early game, I made about 500 million while ranking. Even after the "fix" there was still good money to be made there, and even at its peak, there have always been comparable or even better moneymakers like massacres. Heck I actually could rival quince income with regular sightseeing missions in 2.2 - I had a 35 million mission that took me like 30 minutes once. Now in 2.3 I think when I do massacres it may still exceed it (board switching no longer needed and better individual mission rewards = wooooo more pewpew less soul crushing board swapping and waiting, had a faction drop 7 on me and was out the door of the station and back an hour later to grab like 80 million credits). Even regular exploration rivals it when done correctly (LYR level 5 with new discoveries focusing on habitable zones from the correct stars etc etc). All this is fine - it requires experience and skill to pull it off, differentiating it from quince.

So while quince was a problem because it allowed players to skip early game and this fixing it was good, I never really felt it to be an issue in terms of hourly income, it was never that far away from normal ways of making money.

Uhh... Quince is still quite active. I make 100 mil a day there to fund an A-rated Cutter (which Quince has nearly given me the rank for). Not sure where you get your information but you might want to double-check.

 

[SilentFlame]

Something i do find sad though. The drama from this exploit has been more interesting than elite dangerous's plot development (or lack there of)

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Agony Aunt. The moment I see combat loggers punished the moment I will start believing in FD. You are not an open player and I think you have no vague idea how abused CL is.
Have a good day!

Thanks, i will. And i have pretty good idea how much CLing is abused considering all the complaints on the forums and reddit. Its just that it doesn't affect me. Doesn't mean i approve of it. But if people think one form of cheating is ok, then don't see how they can be against another form. Sounds like certain players kept this cheat secret for over a year in order to give themsevels a competitive advantage over others. To my mind, that's potentially even worse than those who combat log. Think of all the rebuys those who have used this exploit have caused that they might otherwise never have caused without this!

 

[Kyokushin]

RNG is more grindy and boring than relogging over and over, thats why people looked and used shortcuts.

In answer to the question - yes - this is the same kind of cheat as relogging to refresh missions.
Both are in game, both reported by a players and well-known by FDEV since a year or over and both never patched.
RNG exploit was not so popular, i do not knowit, but if i would know, then i would use it to override that time sinking crap.

To conlusion:
FDEV - patch Your game, fix the all exploits, change RNG mechanics to slider mechanics.
That is very good suggestion: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/6ft2z2/serious_engineers_and_the_grind/

In fact there is a lot of hypocricy - IF folks are relogging to workaround flying from place to place to find new missions or waiting 15 minutes to refresh - then THATS FINE.
But when other folks are doing exactly the same, to get off materials grind then they are getting banned.

Eequal or equalier? I thouth a civilised countries left that kind of behaviours, but it seems i was wrong.

 

[WR3ND]

...

The Engineering one was sat on for over a year, and i think that is why FD got annoyed over it. Not that people used it, that they never reported it.

...

It's kind of funny that here on the forums is where I find out about these sort of things, but then I don't go looking for exploits. Actually, I avoid them when I can, so it does benefit me to pay some attention to them here. Obviously I'm not in a position to report anything since I'm likely one of the last to know, and I guess those in the know were too busy taking advantage of it for selfish gain instead of the betterment of the game as a whole. Shame.

I'll go out on a bit of a limb here and say that I think the real Elite community needs to take a firm stand against these sort of damaging and disruptive activities, call them out as such, and report them. I've had it up to here ↑ with these weak-sauce, play-however-you-want sort of convoluted apologists. I don't care about your wealth, gear, etc. in this game. I care about this game.

Oh well. My 2 cents worth. Carry on.