Engineers Is it a good idea with 120 different resources?

[John Stoutbeard]

Dear FDev, design team.
This is a bit reflection on how I experience the Horizon + Engineers after using it for a couple of years. Please grab a cup of tea before reading.
I'll avoid the Blueprint + RNG topic for now, it's a different beast both good & bad.


The crux of it
- Too many resource-types.
- A lacking toolset for acquiring, managing and consuming the resources.

In reflection, have a look at how many other games are trying to balance how many resource-types you have to manage.
- RTS games. Quite often it's as low as 4-5 resource types. Quite often chosen so that it's possible for a player to manage these efficiently in the game.
- Some more advanced games (city building or similar) you may have some in the range of 10-20 types, ranging from wood, metals to advanced composites.
- Other games dedicated to design & manufacturing may have more types. But their interface is designed to cope with the amount of resources you manage as well as automation.

In Elite however we have a staggering 120 different resources you have to relate to!
Tracking 40 types of Data, 55 Manufactured types and 25 raw Materials is just mindblowing.
This is due to the 'simulation' aspect of what can be found in the Elite universe though.
However, it doesn't mean that it's a good idea to involve all of these for gameplay though.

It could still work having this many resource types if we had a proper management system in game.
Unfortunately we don't.
All we have is a 'listing of current stock' and 'drop items'.
And it's all integrated with the ship-consoles in an attempt to make it immersive. Perhaps not the best solution.


Options or Restrictions?
Finding and collecting the 120 different types require a lot of different ship setups and player styles.
You may call them options, but some acts as restrictions.
- Data via ship collection : Wake scanners, seeking out combat arenas as well as exploration content (settlements or USS).
- Data via surface surveying : SRV and settlement interaction
- Materials via ship : Collecting from USS or combat aftermath in general.
- Materials from Surface : SRV and wavescanner to find raw materials.
- Material Mining : Mining raw materials from asteroid belts.

You are forcing many of the players to go back and rearrange the ship setup with either wavescanners, collection limpets, mining gear, SRV hangar and what other equipment to drop - or change ship. Turnaround time to station, refitting and ship management - well, we know this takes a lot of time.
Time which could have been spent playing the game instead of managing the game assets.

Gameplay or Obfuscation?
Not being able to directly understand where and when to find certain resources is another problem.
Having to use system maps, guesswork and forum hunting is required to understand HOW to find just ONE of the resources.
Now multiply with available 120 types.

Where's the fun? The exciting moment when you detect a 'map of precious resources'? The feeling of joy to have detected your own personal gold-mine.
Personally I cannot say that these moments exists for me with the current gameplay.

Verdict
Implementation: Absolutely horrendous management. *sadpanda*
Gameplay : It's a chore to play due to it's being affected by the staggering amount of resource-types and the poor choices for managing these.


----------------------

What can be done to remedy the situation?
Let me toss some ideas, I'm sure there may be some other ideas that could help resolving the issues though.

Strategy a) : Reduce the number of resources being used to a healthy value, max 5-10 resource types.
That means a full revisit of which resources to be used with which blueprints.
You could possibly keep all resources in game, but making them non-collectible or clearly visible that it's not being used for anything.
This means you can keep most of the mechanics, but consument/drops-rates need to be rebalanced.

Strategy b) : Keeping the amount of resource types, 120 in all.
Support for dealing with 120 resources both with locating them, collecting them, managing them as well as better tooling on consumption of these.


Improvements in general
Locating resources / planning:
- Being able to put up filter for a resource-kind and see 'hot spots' in galaxy/system map, or while in supercruise.
- Being able to query NPCs / station services (as well as remotely) to assist in finding a specific resource. Waypoints / POI to said resource.
- If someone need to go outside the game to find information on where to collect a resource, then you have failed the design & implementation.

Resource Collection:
- Clearly state where to find resources in game. Tooling should be available where the player spends his time, either in the general interface or available from the ships interfaces.
- Hire someone (faction or NPCs) to collect resources for you over time.
- As pilot, being able to filter 'wanted items' and 'unwanted items' so you don't fill up precious space with resource you do not desire.
Automatically drop 'unwanted items' to unclutter / save cargo space.

Management of resource stock & blueprint planning:
- Facilitate managing all resources in a better manner.
The current side-panel is utterly cumbersome, although it is true to 'the ship instruments and design', it's not efficient at all for a 'management game' with 120 resources.
- Be able to plan more than one blueprint at a time.
Being able to filter all resources for all your blueprints as well as set up filter for collecting these resources.

----------------------

Final though
If you force the player to go outside of the game to collect information or use 3rd party tools, then you may have a flawed design and implementation.
Giving the player to option to do so is good. Require them to do so is bad.

Dont forget ... sometimes less is more.

If anyone else feel like taking on the challenge with some improvements to the resource system, please knock this thread

 

[Galenrog]

In one word : "Complaint !!!". If too high lvl for you, go play minecraft. But if you stop complaining, I have to make it easier for you :

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yo1iHP9KUXpoBaIzJsRsDxfAcQa7cBq0YUIFy3m2NII/edit?usp=sharing

And to collect all that scrap you will be enough two types of ships not five. For fight and for planet prospecting and USS hunt.

Good luck.

 

[John Stoutbeard]

Sorry to hear you just see a complaint.
Rather it's mean to be critique specifying where there may be a problem as well as some suggestions on how to resolve.

If you disagree perhaps you can say why you disagree instead of lashing out with oversimplifications such as 'complainer, go play something else'.
Don't attack the poster, attack the argument.

 

[Blackcompany]

Dear FDev, design team.
This is a bit reflection on how I experience the Horizon + Engineers after using it for a couple of years. Please grab a cup of tea before reading.
I'll avoid the Blueprint + RNG topic for now, it's a different beast both good & bad.


The crux of it
- Too many resource-types.
- A lacking toolset for acquiring, managing and consuming the resources.

In reflection, have a look at how many other games are trying to balance how many resource-types you have to manage.
- RTS games. Quite often it's as low as 4-5 resource types. Quite often chosen so that it's possible for a player to manage these efficiently in the game.
- Some more advanced games (city building or similar) you may have some in the range of 10-20 types, ranging from wood, metals to advanced composites.
- Other games dedicated to design & manufacturing may have more types. But their interface is designed to cope with the amount of resources you manage as well as automation.

In Elite however we have a staggering 120 different resources you have to relate to!
Tracking 40 types of Data, 55 Manufactured types and 25 raw Materials is just mindblowing.
This is due to the 'simulation' aspect of what can be found in the Elite universe though.
However, it doesn't mean that it's a good idea to involve all of these for gameplay though.

It could still work having this many resource types if we had a proper management system in game.
Unfortunately we don't.
All we have is a 'listing of current stock' and 'drop items'.
And it's all integrated with the ship-consoles in an attempt to make it immersive. Perhaps not the best solution.


Options or Restrictions?
Finding and collecting the 120 different types require a lot of different ship setups and player styles.
You may call them options, but some acts as restrictions.
- Data via ship collection : Wake scanners, seeking out combat arenas as well as exploration content (settlements or USS).
- Data via surface surveying : SRV and settlement interaction
- Materials via ship : Collecting from USS or combat aftermath in general.
- Materials from Surface : SRV and wavescanner to find raw materials.
- Material Mining : Mining raw materials from asteroid belts.

You are forcing many of the players to go back and rearrange the ship setup with either wavescanners, collection limpets, mining gear, SRV hangar and what other equipment to drop - or change ship. Turnaround time to station, refitting and ship management - well, we know this takes a lot of time.
Time which could have been spent playing the game instead of managing the game assets.

Gameplay or Obfuscation?
Not being able to directly understand where and when to find certain resources is another problem.
Having to use system maps, guesswork and forum hunting is required to understand HOW to find just ONE of the resources.
Now multiply with available 120 types.

Where's the fun? The exciting moment when you detect a 'map of precious resources'? The feeling of joy to have detected your own personal gold-mine.
Personally I cannot say that these moments exists for me with the current gameplay.

Verdict
Implementation: Absolutely horrendous management. *sadpanda*
Gameplay : It's a chore to play due to it's being affected by the staggering amount of resource-types and the poor choices for managing these.


----------------------

What can be done to remedy the situation?
Let me toss some ideas, I'm sure there may be some other ideas that could help resolving the issues though.

Strategy a) : Reduce the number of resources being used to a healthy value, max 5-10 resource types.
That means a full revisit of which resources to be used with which blueprints.
You could possibly keep all resources in game, but making them non-collectible or clearly visible that it's not being used for anything.
This means you can keep most of the mechanics, but consument/drops-rates need to be rebalanced.

Strategy b) : Keeping the amount of resource types, 120 in all.
Support for dealing with 120 resources both with locating them, collecting them, managing them as well as better tooling on consumption of these.


Improvements in general
Locating resources / planning:
- Being able to put up filter for a resource-kind and see 'hot spots' in galaxy/system map, or while in supercruise.
- Being able to query NPCs / station services (as well as remotely) to assist in finding a specific resource. Waypoints / POI to said resource.
- If someone need to go outside the game to find information on where to collect a resource, then you have failed the design & implementation.

Resource Collection:
- Clearly state where to find resources in game. Tooling should be available where the player spends his time, either in the general interface or available from the ships interfaces.
- Hire someone (faction or NPCs) to collect resources for you over time.
- As pilot, being able to filter 'wanted items' and 'unwanted items' so you don't fill up precious space with resource you do not desire.
Automatically drop 'unwanted items' to unclutter / save cargo space.

Management of resource stock & blueprint planning:
- Facilitate managing all resources in a better manner.
The current side-panel is utterly cumbersome, although it is true to 'the ship instruments and design', it's not efficient at all for a 'management game' with 120 resources.
- Be able to plan more than one blueprint at a time.
Being able to filter all resources for all your blueprints as well as set up filter for collecting these resources.

----------------------

Final though
If you force the player to go outside of the game to collect information or use 3rd party tools, then you may have a flawed design and implementation.
Giving the player to option to do so is good. Require them to do so is bad.

Dont forget ... sometimes less is more.

If anyone else feel like taking on the challenge with some improvements to the resource system, please knock this thread

Literally nothing about the current rngineer implementation is a good idea.

Not the wait wall unlocks.

Not the multi layer rng.

Not the poorly disguised slot machine that is upgrades.

Not the convoluted resource list, rng mat drops, farming spot or mission type or system type limitations.

The RNGineers are like a lesson in poor game design. One of the worst mechanics in modern gaming.

 

[Blackcompany]

In one word : "Complaint !!!". If too high lvl for you, go play minecraft. But if you stop complaining, I have to make it easier for you :

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yo1iHP9KUXpoBaIzJsRsDxfAcQa7cBq0YUIFy3m2NII/edit?usp=sharing

And to collect all that scrap you will be enough two types of ships not five. For fight and for planet prospecting and USS hunt.

Good luck.

Youre mistaking complexity for challenge.

Keeping up with the frankly stupid mats/drops system isnt HARD at all. Only stupidly tedious.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

It's tedious.
Because I'm a bit casual and don't meticulously plan every upgrade I want or hunt specific materials, I end up having to refer to an external site every time I hit the limit to see what I can get rid of.

Typically, that will only free up 50-100 data and 100-200 materials which is soon full again.

Engineers requires a similar UI to the Synthesis tabs and the data/materials require collection cap settings to avoid collecting more crap that you don't want.

 

[ThriveInDark]

Youre mistaking complexity for challenge.

Keeping up with the frankly stupid mats/drops system isnt HARD at all. Only stupidly tedious.

Yep, I mean I don't really mind the RNG and some mats gathering but it is pretty staggering the amount of mats, and then once you get most engineers to G5 you only 3-5 mats per Engineer except the weapons guys for special effects purchases... People often mistake grind for challenge, one requires skill to overcome and the other is a time sink.

 

[PhoenicianSon]

I agree with the OP that there are a great deal of resources to locate, collect and utilize for upgrades; and, Frontier has not really provided us with any form of management for those material and data other than the simple cargo log. That being said, I personally enjoy the diversity and volume of data and materials. While it can be tedious, and yes, you need a lot of different builds, ships and different locations to find the right materials, there are a few "catch all's" for this particular system at the same time that help to streamline collection and location of the materials and data. The material necessary for various engineer upgrades are neatly organized between the various sources and not random. Meaning, there are very specific materials and or data between each source and they are redundant. Therefore, once you get acclimated to knowing where to find what you require, you pretty much already know where to source them and there are a great deal of material types available per source; i.e. 8 to 10 types of materials you can acquire through Wanted ships at RES zones, Combat ships in CZs and trading ships (anywhere) and there are specific data collection from scanning ships versus scanning locations on a planet, and you get a sense of what you will find from the various classifications of USS's. Additionally, materials and data transfer from ship to ship. Actually, the fact that we don't need to carry commodities anymore, albeit temporarily until Frontier creates a storage solution for cargo, is a huge plus and makes material and data collection infinitely simpler. The initial requirement for actual cargo was a bit difficult to account for since it required cargo modules, which limited your count of engineer upgrades at any one time due to subjective cargo limitations ship to ship.

I agree that material and data collection can be, tedious, and there are a lot of materials and data sources and types to track down, but I like the fact that there is that variety rather than limiting the whole of engineers and their respective upgrades to a total of 5-10 data and material type sources. I feel that actually may end up being boring and monotonous. I even like the fact there are materials and data sources that are completely useless for upgrades, as that even provides some diversity into the game. Basically, you have to plan out where to collect materials and look for the right locations. In a game where there is so much to do, but so little depth in any one thing, I actually find the engineers something that fills that gap to a certain extent and offers motivation to players to set goals. If anything, I would like to see the following upgrades to the current system:

1. A way to select specific materials from your menu to identify and give the highlighted materials a distinctive target color on your radar and screen in a manner to emphasize or separate them for the remaining materials during collection efforts in space.
2. A way to shut off data collection when you don't want to collect data - particularly warranted when you are in CZ or RES and you are constantly downloading data from scans you don't want only to have to delete.

There are a lot of third party programs that are available that will help you maintain and and ledger your collected materials and data. Some are even automated where they actually sync with your inventory in game. I cannot recall which program automates data and material collection and inventory, but I specifically use INARA, which allows you to manually track everything you do in game. This includes an inventory log of all of the data and materials that you collect. You have to manually input the inventory count, but you can also view the various engineers and review their upgrades, which also sync's with your inventory management of data and material to indicate whether you have sufficient data and or materials to perform an engineer upgrade, and even how many times you can perform the upgrade. You can also select any, without limitation, engineer blueprints as "Favorites" and it will link the information for the upgrade as well as the inventory required to your inventory page, as well as indicate how many times you can perform the upgrade if you have the available materials and or data. It also provides a list of all materials and data, the amount of times you have expended each respective material and data, and informs you where you can locate them in game.

I basically have the INARA webpage loaded on my iPad at all times sitting next to my computer when playing the game, which makes materials and data management a lot simpler and efficient. You can set up an account on INARA for free, if you have not already. If you already have an account on INARA, and you have not yet tried the inventory management for your cargo, namely, materials and data, as well as setting your "Favorites" for engineer blueprints, give it a try, and I think you will find the maintenance and collection of materials and data a great deal less overwhelming.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

The overblown bloat of resources with no info provided where to find them is simply ridiculous.

Usually, when some game uses such a copious amount of different input materials it's made pretty clear where they can be acquired. Then you could actively target these and dedicate some time to mine, trade loot or whatever them. You'd still be subject to random drops, but at least you'd know you'd be trying to find the stuff at the right place. It was the same with when Horizon launched about the mats and where to find them, but in far, far less amounts.

You'll be alt-tabbing / using the mobile / browsing through your printouts pretty much. And it's not very compelling to do so. Even less so with the %$?&§"! commodities that were part of the recipes when the engineers released. I still can't wrap my head around why someone would think that was a good idea. I guess they considered it viable, because they ' designed engineers to be a crappy overpowered feature so people had to work their butt off to git gud by pimpship equipment.

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

i have no problem with the resource collection mechaninc
i have no problem with the RNG nature of the engineers
hell i don't even have a problem with the number of different materials

i just have a problem with the impropper user interface when it comes to managing my own assets.

drag&drop was introduced in the last century, probably before half of the playerbase was born, yet it has not found its way into this game.

if you don't give me the slightest control over what materials my collector limpets collect, or my scans randomly add to my database - then at least give me an auto-trash option.
I do like crafting as gameplay element,
but some implementations are just horrible.

when i think about it... even Diablo2's cube crafting was more intuitive and confortable compared to this (despite lots of more RNG and even more limited cargo space)

 

[OneBadHuskerFan]

I've never really understood the attitude about people calling the game a "chore" yet those people continue to play it. If it's a chore and you aren't enjoying it play something else? I can understand some of the issues, but if it ever got to the point that I considered this game a "chore" I'd drop it in a heartbeat.

 

[Blackcompany]

I've never really understood the attitude about people calling the game a "chore" yet those people continue to play it. If it's a chore and you aren't enjoying it play something else? I can understand some of the issues, but if it ever got to the point that I considered this game a "chore" I'd drop it in a heartbeat.

Don't get me wrong. I did drop it.

It's just that some of us keep hoping the devs will find some way to turn the game we paid for, I to one that's actually fun.

They could start by shifting focus away from grind and addict design philosophy toward one where Actual entertaining game play matters.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Don't get me wrong. I did drop it.

It's just that some of us keep hoping the devs will find some way to turn the game we paid for, I to one that's actually fun.

They could start by shifting focus away from grind and addict design philosophy toward one where Actual entertaining game play matters.

Pretty much. The game was fun before engineers. I'd like to have it back. I'm kinda disappointed the expansion ruined the base game.

 

[Gunnet]

I rather like that it takes some time and effort to learn everything, and that obtaining the various mats requires a variety of activities. It helps keep engineering as one of the few activities in the game which demands actual effort and dedication.

 

[John Stoutbeard]

I've never really understood the attitude about people calling the game a "chore" yet those people continue to play it. If it's a chore and you aren't enjoying it play something else? I can understand some of the issues, but if it ever got to the point that I considered this game a "chore" I'd drop it in a heartbeat.

No problem, let me try to explain.
You think we called the game a chore. Not so. It's merely one aspect of it, not all the game.
All tough this aspect in particular, aka managing your resources and acquiring them is a chore, there's ton of fun and interesting things to do in game.
Hence why we play.

And since we *play*, visit hundreds of worlds, investigate thousands of USSs, doing combat zones, or CGs, investigating mysterious crash sites, ... hence we also have perform micro-management on a day to day basis.

 

[John Stoutbeard]

I rather like that it takes some time and effort to learn everything, and that obtaining the various mats requires a variety of activities. It helps keep engineering as one of the few activities in the game which demands actual effort and dedication.

I tend to agree with you, although I think it's a bit simplified to say "one of the few activities with requires effort & dedication".
I do like effort and dedication, the feeling of achievement. Absolutely great.

However, achieving something because the UI & the implementation in the cockpit is poor is just wrong.
Having to overcome the shortcomings of the UI. No, sorry that's not where I want to spend my effort, nor score my feeling of achievement.

However if we were to seek out some of the resources, challenges, then yes.

Having resources 'hidden' with no ingame supporting mechanisms perhaps except using Missions. Instead relying on google spreadsheets, EDEngineer/EDDiscovery/Eddb/Inara/ ... ah well, the list goes on.
Instead we could have ingame tools facilitating management and discovery of the resource-types.

The the question goes back to you.
Would it lessen the experience to have *better* scanners / mapping ingame? I'm not talking about 'instant discovery, instant pickup' or 'buy resources at a whim'.
Would it it be worse to have:
- A resource list where you can 'favorite' resources you want to pick up. Perhaps color that resource yellow or something on the scanner when you're at an USS / planetside.
- Put a 'max limit' on them, if you pick up something after that it will drop it for you if you have limpets collecting. Or color it grey. Limpets interfacing should be intelligent enough to understand what you're interested in via a resource management interface.
- When you use a scanner / heat map, it will take into account which resource you're looking for and 'heat' up those areas on a planet?
- Instead of RNG'ing USS for hours, why can't you focus on areas in space that are more likely to give you a said resource, having a 'heat' overlay in space to increase your chances for a particular USS type. Today they rely on you to understand Systemstate+Planettype+Spacelanes and magic happens.
- Eg. Emperial shielding. Why can't you have a 'heat' map showing you better locations to find these? You're not going to find them in certain systems, while in others you will.
- Boom/Famine states, why can't there be a map that shows what kind of resource you get from a system in such a state?
- Why not link the resources you're seeking to the Mission-board, so you can filter out mission with such a reward?

I'm curious what you think.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I tend to agree with you, although I think it's a bit simplified to say "one of the few activities with requires effort & dedication".
I do like effort and dedication, the feeling of achievement. Absolutely great.

However, achieving something because the UI & the implementation in the cockpit is poor is just wrong.
Having to overcome the shortcomings of the UI. No, sorry that's not where I want to spend my effort, nor score my feeling of achievement.

However if we were to seek out some of the resources, challenges, then yes.

Having resources 'hidden' with no ingame supporting mechanisms perhaps except using Missions. Instead relying on google spreadsheets, EDEngineer/EDDiscovery/Eddb/Inara/ ... ah well, the list goes on.
Instead we could have ingame tools facilitating management and discovery of the resource-types.

The the question goes back to you.
Would it lessen the experience to have *better* scanners / mapping ingame? I'm not talking about 'instant discovery, instant pickup' or 'buy resources at a whim'.
Would it it be worse to have:
- A resource list where you can 'favorite' resources you want to pick up. Perhaps color that resource yellow or something on the scanner when you're at an USS / planetside.
- Put a 'max limit' on them, if you pick up something after that it will drop it for you if you have limpets collecting. Or color it grey. Limpets interfacing should be intelligent enough to understand what you're interested in via a resource management interface.
- When you use a scanner / heat map, it will take into account which resource you're looking for and 'heat' up those areas on a planet?
- Instead of RNG'ing USS for hours, why can't you focus on areas in space that are more likely to give you a said resource, having a 'heat' overlay in space to increase your chances for a particular USS type. Today they rely on you to understand Systemstate+Planettype+Spacelanes and magic happens.
- Eg. Emperial shielding. Why can't you have a 'heat' map showing you better locations to find these? You're not going to find them in certain systems, while in others you will.
- Boom/Famine states, why can't there be a map that shows what kind of resource you get from a system in such a state?
- Why not link the resources you're seeking to the Mission-board, so you can filter out mission with such a reward?

I'm curious what you think.

I think it's sensible.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I tend to agree with you, although I think it's a bit simplified to say "one of the few activities with requires effort & dedication".
I do like effort and dedication, the feeling of achievement. Absolutely great.

However, achieving something because the UI & the implementation in the cockpit is poor is just wrong.
Having to overcome the shortcomings of the UI. No, sorry that's not where I want to spend my effort, nor score my feeling of achievement.

However if we were to seek out some of the resources, challenges, then yes.

Having resources 'hidden' with no ingame supporting mechanisms perhaps except using Missions. Instead relying on google spreadsheets, EDEngineer/EDDiscovery/Eddb/Inara/ ... ah well, the list goes on.
Instead we could have ingame tools facilitating management and discovery of the resource-types.

The the question goes back to you.
Would it lessen the experience to have *better* scanners / mapping ingame? I'm not talking about 'instant discovery, instant pickup' or 'buy resources at a whim'.
Would it it be worse to have:
- A resource list where you can 'favorite' resources you want to pick up. Perhaps color that resource yellow or something on the scanner when you're at an USS / planetside.
- Put a 'max limit' on them, if you pick up something after that it will drop it for you if you have limpets collecting. Or color it grey. Limpets interfacing should be intelligent enough to understand what you're interested in via a resource management interface.
- When you use a scanner / heat map, it will take into account which resource you're looking for and 'heat' up those areas on a planet?
- Instead of RNG'ing USS for hours, why can't you focus on areas in space that are more likely to give you a said resource, having a 'heat' overlay in space to increase your chances for a particular USS type. Today they rely on you to understand Systemstate+Planettype+Spacelanes and magic happens.
- Eg. Emperial shielding. Why can't you have a 'heat' map showing you better locations to find these? You're not going to find them in certain systems, while in others you will.
- Boom/Famine states, why can't there be a map that shows what kind of resource you get from a system in such a state?
- Why not link the resources you're seeking to the Mission-board, so you can filter out mission with such a reward?

I'm curious what you think.

Please do *not* ask rational questions on this board.

 

[Gunnet]

I tend to agree with you, although I think it's a bit simplified to say "one of the few activities with requires effort & dedication".
I do like effort and dedication, the feeling of achievement. Absolutely great.

However, achieving something because the UI & the implementation in the cockpit is poor is just wrong.
Having to overcome the shortcomings of the UI. No, sorry that's not where I want to spend my effort, nor score my feeling of achievement.

However if we were to seek out some of the resources, challenges, then yes.

Having resources 'hidden' with no ingame supporting mechanisms perhaps except using Missions. Instead relying on google spreadsheets, EDEngineer/EDDiscovery/Eddb/Inara/ ... ah well, the list goes on.
Instead we could have ingame tools facilitating management and discovery of the resource-types.

The the question goes back to you.
Would it lessen the experience to have *better* scanners / mapping ingame? I'm not talking about 'instant discovery, instant pickup' or 'buy resources at a whim'.
Would it it be worse to have:
- A resource list where you can 'favorite' resources you want to pick up. Perhaps color that resource yellow or something on the scanner when you're at an USS / planetside.
- Put a 'max limit' on them, if you pick up something after that it will drop it for you if you have limpets collecting. Or color it grey. Limpets interfacing should be intelligent enough to understand what you're interested in via a resource management interface.
- When you use a scanner / heat map, it will take into account which resource you're looking for and 'heat' up those areas on a planet?
- Instead of RNG'ing USS for hours, why can't you focus on areas in space that are more likely to give you a said resource, having a 'heat' overlay in space to increase your chances for a particular USS type. Today they rely on you to understand Systemstate+Planettype+Spacelanes and magic happens.
- Eg. Emperial shielding. Why can't you have a 'heat' map showing you better locations to find these? You're not going to find them in certain systems, while in others you will.
- Boom/Famine states, why can't there be a map that shows what kind of resource you get from a system in such a state?
- Why not link the resources you're seeking to the Mission-board, so you can filter out mission with such a reward?

I'm curious what you think.

I have no objection to all the currently hidden (or entirely absent) information about mats and engineering being made easily accessible in-game. I would also strongly support QoL features for mat handling like being able to set collection limits and having the UI highlight 'favourite' mats.

On the other hand, I'm not on board with the idea of tools which lead you around by the nose so that engineering stops being something you learn how to do over time. For example, it's terrible that you can't look at an in-game reference to discover that you should be looking for high grade signal sources in an outbreak system if you want to find pharma isolators. But it would also be terrible if finding them meant selecting them from a list and having the game say "go here".

In other words: Have the game provide players with the information they need to overcome the learning curve so they will be able to effectively and efficiently engineer ships, just don't actually remove the learning curve.

 

[Ca$hback]

I love complexity but I hate the illusion of complexity. If there were more purpose and relevance to the materials used and the way they were used then it'd be worth having them. There aren't enough options because instead of tweaking aspects we have recipes.