Engineers Is it a good idea with 120 different resources?

[Susanna]

Literally nothing about the current rngineer implementation is a good idea.

Not the wait wall unlocks.

Not the multi layer rng.

Not the poorly disguised slot machine that is upgrades.

Not the convoluted resource list, rng mat drops, farming spot or mission type or system type limitations.

The RNGineers are like a lesson in poor game design. One of the worst mechanics in modern gaming.

I have to sadly agree with you.

 

[Winterwalker]

I rather like that it takes some time and effort to learn everything, and that obtaining the various mats requires a variety of activities. It helps keep engineering as one of the few activities in the game which demands actual effort and dedication.

I feel like this as well. As happens I'm casual with engineers and collect a mats randomly as I go about other business. I always seem to get a good choice of upgrades at engineers by doing that but if you want a specific upgrade then, just like you need to take military missions to progress in the military (concentrate on one minor faction to flip a system or specialise to push trade, exploration or combat ranking specifically) then you'll be looking for specialist materials. Yes there could be more in game tools for finding them but (1) third party (community) apps do exist and (2) doesn't mean the design is flawed, just means it could be fleshed out more. (You need basic mechanics to be installed first, before they can be fleshed out, though). Personally, I like them.

 

[Susanna]

Pretty much. The game was fun before engineers. I'd like to have it back. I'm kinda disappointed the expansion ruined the base game.

Like you, I preferred the game before RNGineers. I like having the benefits of the RNGineers (better jump range etc) but it sure hasn't improved game play imo. It's all been a means of dragging the game out rather than adding meaningful story driven content. This may have been time that fdev needed to buy themselves for the implientation of The Return.

It's almost like you can hear the team meeting one morning while discussing what 2.x should include... Maybe something like this....

DB:
So team, how are we going to buy ourselves a year or so while we implement all the the things needed for the Thargoid Return? Let's hear your ideas!
Team member:
Well we could put in some means of applying upgrades to the player base ships. The player base have been asking for some means of modding their ships for a long time. Especially those pvp and exploration types. They want better weapons and FSDs. If this was linked to a whole load of materials that need to be found, collected and used, we could have them running around for months!
Another Team member:
That sounds good. We could also make the upgrade based on RNG, which could buy us some more time... It would keep them repeating the same actions over and over again. I've even seen YouTube videos of Mini doing this hundreds of times! It's an awesome time sink!
DB:
I like that idea, if we were to offer ship upgrades we would need to have some mechanism for doing so. Like an engineer doing a modification on a formula 1 car. So team, let's development a bunch of RNGineers that use RNG to do the ship upgrades, we can scatter the required materials all over the place. We can also make these engineers planet based so that the player base feel like it was worth the Horizons upgrade! This should keep them off our backs for a while. It's a good start but we'll need more time than this.
Team member:
How about some planetary based archaeological ruins? We could have them search the ruins and piece together some massive puzzle! If we do it right, we could even leave some of the puzzle pieces out... You know... Missing that could buy us a few more months... If the ruins where placed outside the bubble, it might get some of the players away from just doing trade routes in the bubble too.
DB:
Interesting idea, we'd need to give the race that built the ruins a fancy name. Maybe the Guardians... It suggests a whole layer of story could be overlaid via the puzzles. The player base is a load of nerds, so they'll lap that up! So that should buy us a good 6 months so far. But we need more time people? Any other suggestions anyone?
Team member:
The player base are always whining about wanting some sort of multiplayer facility in the game. It's a bit lame as the ships are designed to be piloted by a single player, but if that's what they want.... Who are we to stand in their way... Give them Multicrew. They'll just trash it by using it to wreck havoc on each others ships, but at least we'll be seen as the good guys that delivered what they wanted!
DB:
Love it! That should be good for another 3 months of arguing and ing. So we should be able to buy ourselves a good 9 months to a year with these ideas. It's been a productive team meeting! Go get this done guys!

The rest is history...

 

[Susanna]

I tend to agree with you, although I think it's a bit simplified to say "one of the few activities with requires effort & dedication".
I do like effort and dedication, the feeling of achievement. Absolutely great.

However, achieving something because the UI & the implementation in the cockpit is poor is just wrong.
Having to overcome the shortcomings of the UI. No, sorry that's not where I want to spend my effort, nor score my feeling of achievement.

However if we were to seek out some of the resources, challenges, then yes.

Having resources 'hidden' with no ingame supporting mechanisms perhaps except using Missions. Instead relying on google spreadsheets, EDEngineer/EDDiscovery/Eddb/Inara/ ... ah well, the list goes on.
Instead we could have ingame tools facilitating management and discovery of the resource-types.

The the question goes back to you.
Would it lessen the experience to have *better* scanners / mapping ingame? I'm not talking about 'instant discovery, instant pickup' or 'buy resources at a whim'.
Would it it be worse to have:
- A resource list where you can 'favorite' resources you want to pick up. Perhaps color that resource yellow or something on the scanner when you're at an USS / planetside.
- Put a 'max limit' on them, if you pick up something after that it will drop it for you if you have limpets collecting. Or color it grey. Limpets interfacing should be intelligent enough to understand what you're interested in via a resource management interface.
- When you use a scanner / heat map, it will take into account which resource you're looking for and 'heat' up those areas on a planet?
- Instead of RNG'ing USS for hours, why can't you focus on areas in space that are more likely to give you a said resource, having a 'heat' overlay in space to increase your chances for a particular USS type. Today they rely on you to understand Systemstate+Planettype+Spacelanes and magic happens.
- Eg. Emperial shielding. Why can't you have a 'heat' map showing you better locations to find these? You're not going to find them in certain systems, while in others you will.
- Boom/Famine states, why can't there be a map that shows what kind of resource you get from a system in such a state?
- Why not link the resources you're seeking to the Mission-board, so you can filter out mission with such a reward?

I'm curious what you think.

My sentiments exactly...

 

[cael]

well i guess ill be that guy. i enjoy it and dont mind that you cant just find things just like that. has this game ever just given you anything. engineering your ship to make it crazy shouldn't just be a thing that happens it requires lots of time as space is big . but hey i seem to just be a crazy person

 

[THECATISDEAD]

90% of the I got in my data/material storage I don't even know what it's for... I go to an external website or to the engineer to discover what I actually need. It's so poorly designed and that's just one aspect of it. FDev really need to hire a lead designer with talent, experience and know-how or perhaps it's upper management who aren't listening to the current (lead) designer(s)? Who knows, they never say anything of value/worthwhile listening to!

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I rather like that it takes some time and effort to learn everything, and that obtaining the various mats requires a variety of activities. It helps keep engineering as one of the few activities in the game which demands actual effort and dedication.

The game had enough effort before engineers dropped. Engineers just piled extra on top. My main gripe is seeing "the effort" can be screwed just by another RNG. ED already has too many "Here, I erase your last hours of progress just like that" moments. At some point, it's just frustrating. And pointless, too, when I look at the outcome of engineers.

I have played games just for the fun of the gameplay. Unlocks and rewards are not necessary when the gameplay is its own reward. Rather than trivialising the whole game difficulty with OP modules, I wonder if it hadn't been better if the engineers were just a means for players to craft more unique looks to their ships. Something cool rather than totally OP.

Who needs better weapons anyway? We could shoot players and AI just fine before. Now we have glitchers and 24h grinders making PvP pointless and PvE players complaining that the game became too easy. Apart from the jump range mods I don't see very much that engineers added to the table.