Is it just me, or is chaff pointless in a CZ? [PvE]

[Deleted member 110222]

As the title asks, are the NPCs in a CZ all using fixed?

Not a complaint. Just want to see if I'd be better off switching the chaff to something else when at war.

 

[Squareyed]

Most NPCs in small and medium ship do tend to have all fix while Large ships have a mix between both (not 100% sure on this)

In other words yeah in a CZ just pull it off and put on another shield booster if your ship has the power.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Most NPCs in small and medium ship do tend to have all fix while Large ships have a mix between both (not 100% sure on this)

In other words yeah in a CZ just pull it off and put on another shield booster if your ship has the power.

Sounds right. Very well. I'll add a different utility later.

 

[Vardaugas]

A point defense may be another choice. Because as soon as your shields go down, you will be eating missiles from somewhere.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

A point defense may be another choice. Because as soon as your shields go down, you will be eating missiles from somewhere.

Oh aye? Thank you.

 

[Aashenfox]

Chaff (and point defense) are the biggest damage mitigators in pve, if you get rid of the chaff you will be eating even more damage. Sure some small ships have rails, but more have gimballed lasers and multicannons. I wouldn't dream of going to a cz or haz-RES without chaff.

Chaff uptime should be maximized as well. Use it on cooldown basically.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Chaff (and point defense) are the biggest damage mitigators in pve, if you get rid of the chaff you will be eating even more damage. Sure some small ships have rails, but more have gimballed lasers and multicannons. I wouldn't dream of going to a cz or haz-RES without chaff.

Wise words. I've seen enough of your posts to know that you know what you are saying.

Hmm. I think some battle testing is on call!

 

[ArchAngelofDeath]

A point defense may be another choice. Because as soon as your shields go down, you will be eating missiles from somewhere.

I quit using chaff in PVE and now use Point defense in it's place. I find I'm seldom using chaff as it is and most NPCs are hitting me with fixed weps. Missiles and hatchbreaker limepets on the otherhand I run into enough to be glad I have point defense. On my Corvette I have both but all other ships with less slots I run Boosters and 1 point defense, maybe a heatsink if I have enough slots.

 

[StiTch]

I am usually in a CZ too long to bother with "expendable" utilities such as chaff, instead running PD/SBs that I know will benefit me for as many fights as I want. That said PD can expend its ammo if there's enough going on around you, and a single one can do a marvelous job of doing naff all to help if the missiles come from the wrong direction.

 

[Aashenfox]

Wise words. I've seen enough of your posts to know that you know what you are saying.

Hmm. I think some battle testing is on call!

I very much appreciate the vote of confidence, thanks, but really, I do not put my opinion above some other commenters, really just adding mud to the water, since we all play differently. The thing about chaff though is that it can buy you enough time to finish off a target or run. If you circle strafe and drop chaff while running away, only railgunners and fixed pulse lasers will hit you.

As StiTch correctly points out, using PD is hit n miss, no pun intended. I find it highly effective when I can use two on a ship that has up and down facing utilities (like the FGS or the Chieftain, one up one down PDs on those ships make you virtually invulnerable to missiles, and that is what I run on those), if you only fit one you have to remember to listen out for the incoming missile warning, identify the missile on radar and orient yourself so your point defense can intercept it, all in half a second. For the FAS this was relatively straight forward, hear the warning, face the ships belly to the missile (all FAS utility slots are underneath, another big advantage the Chief has over it), it's a habit to get into and if you can get the hang of it, then technically you just freed up another utility slot.

 

[Aashenfox]

I am usually in a CZ too long to bother with "expendable" utilities such as chaff, instead running PD/SBs that I know will benefit me for as many fights as I want. That said PD can expend its ammo if there's enough going on around you, and a single one can do a marvelous job of doing naff all to help if the missiles come from the wrong direction.

StiTch, I used to use chaff even before synthing was a thing, but now you can refill them, the low ammo isn't really an issue.

Alonya, a lot of it depends on the rest of your build. Are you biweave or A rated? Do you fight shields down? I remember you haul, so I'm guessing you bug out when shields go down? If so, then I might not bother with PD, as the AI will not shoot missiles at shields unless they feel it's their best option (or it's their only weapon, and of course missiles just bounce of shields).

 

[jasonbarron]

I never bother with chaff against NPC's, it's a waste of a utility slot. Point defense is generally more helpful imo, but even then I don't really care. The best strategy to keep from getting hit in a CZ is crowd control

 

[StiTch]

StiTch, I used to use chaff even before synthing was a thing, but now you can refill them, the low ammo isn't really an issue.

A lot of it depends on the rest of your build. Are you biweave or A rated? Do you fight shields down? I remember you haul, so I'm guessing you bug out when shields go down? If so, then I might not bother with PD, as the AI will not shoot missiles at shields unless they feel it's their best option (or it's their only weapon, and of course missiles just bounce of shields).

Tbh I haven't been keeping up with the times on chaff so it would appear - didn't know it is synthable now. I try to avoid chaff as a crutch, simply because I have no real need for it in PvE and in PvP I build to beat largely fixed opponents. A lot of high-skill players use fixed and if ya outfit to beat the best, you'll beat the rest anyway. Of course, that doesn't mean I actually beat the best

As you say it's all about a bit of common sense. I don't bother with PD on my iCutter, but I'll regularly use a single one on my FGS, which is a hybrid tank and can lose a lot of its firepower to a missile in the face.

Iirc OP is flying a Viper mk. IV at present, which kinda does benefit from the PD. It's small enough that one or two missiles will really hurt it, but doesn't have mega speed to control distance from the missiles when you know they're incoming - and a CZ is often too busy to keep a tab on what your opponents are all using.

 

[Aashenfox]

Tbh I haven't been keeping up with the times on chaff so it would appear - didn't know it is synthable now. I try to avoid chaff as a crutch, simply because I have no real need for it in PvE and in PvP I build to beat largely fixed opponents. A lot of high-skill players use fixed and if ya outfit to beat the best, you'll beat the rest anyway. Of course, that doesn't mean I actually beat the best

As you say it's all about a bit of common sense. I don't bother with PD on my iCutter, but I'll regularly use a single one on my FGS, which is a hybrid tank and can lose a lot of its firepower to a missile in the face.

Iirc OP is flying a Viper mk. IV at present, which kinda does benefit from the PD. It's small enough that one or two missiles will really hurt it, but doesn't have mega speed to control distance from the missiles when you know they're incoming - and a CZ is often too busy to keep a tab on what your opponents are all using.

Yeh, my hybrid VM4 was one booster, 2 PD and one chaff, but once again, PD is only really useful if you expect to fight with shields down (and don't get me wrong, the VM4 is a WICKED hybrid ship, but since Alonya hauls I'm guessing she has caro racks)... I completely agree that if you outfit for pvp you are well set for pve as well, it is the philosophy I employ when outfitting too.

 

[Sylow]

Another important aspect for chaff is the size of your ship and the distance to the enemy. After all, effectively chaff does nothing else but adding a lot of jitter to the enemies non-fixed weapons.
.
So if you fly a really big ship and/or are really close to the enemy, chaff does very fittle for you. (That's also true if your ship is slow and the enemy can control the distance. )
.
So for the fun of it, i tried chaff even on my Cutter, but as expected, it didn't really do much for it. In contrast, the Courier profits a lot from chaff. So for a small to mid sized ship i find that chaff is very valuable, while its value drops rapidly on bigger ships.
.

 

[Darkslayer]

Yeh, my hybrid VM4 was one booster, 2 PD and one chaff, but once again, PD is only really useful if you expect to fight with shields down (and don't get me wrong, the VM4 is a WICKED hybrid ship, but since Alonya hauls I'm guessing she has caro racks)... I completely agree that if you outfit for pvp you are well set for pve as well, it is the philosophy I employ when outfitting too.

Doesn't the VM4 only have 2 utilities?

 

[Ddraig]

I dont use chaff.
Rather pick my targets and never jump into crowd fights unless I have the advantage.
I do always carry a point defense cause missiles. Though, honestly, another booster would suit me just fine.

 

[biohazard15]

Depends on your ship. Chaff is useless on anything bigger than a Python.

 

[Aashenfox]

Doesn't the VM4 only have 2 utilities?

HAven't flown it for a while, but I think it has 4, the VM3 has 2.

Edit, nope you're right it has two, so for me that would have been PD and chaff, makes it even easier. Musta been thinking of the courier.

"give the VM4 two more utilities" thread anyone? lol

 

[IndigoWyrd]

If your large ship is fast enough - and Cutters often fall into this category, Chaff CAN be helpful if you need to put some distance between yourself and whoever is shooting at you.

Sorry, Corvette, but you're more Federal Chevette when it comes to raw thruster speed.

But as stated, large ships do suffer from Large Ship Syndrome - small ships can pull right up on you, and all that chaff jitter becomes meaningless. I also make use of this fact myself when fighting against large NPC's, because they can spam chaff endlessly, and do - which is why chaff dispensers become a primary target for me. I just love shooting those little things off their hulls - then half their tactics are elminiated, and if they happen to stop to reboot, it's rammin' time!

Point Defense... it seems useful on every single ship, except the Type-10. I've tried positioning a PD or even two in multiple locations, but... they generally don't seem to be all that effective. I've started using both PD and ECM on my combat Type-10 with much better results, but the ECM is still a little weird to use.