Is it me, or have ships in CZ got a ton more hitpoints recently?

Agony_Aunt · Dec 25, 2018

I used to take down ships in CZ without too much trouble in my turret MC Beluga. I used to be able to take down ships with my turret CM4, with a bit of effort of course.

So, i take my new Kraits into a CZ, and its taking me forever to take them down. I have another turret boat, 3 large MCs (thermal/long range), 1 medium MC (corrosive/high cap), and a medium pulse (scramble/efficient). That was having real trouble taking ships down.

Right then i think, i pull out the frag boat. 5 Frags, double shot, grade 5. Let's watch this shred hull.... except, it didn't. I used to have frag gunship which would wreck stuff in CZ. The Krait should have even better DPS. Yet i used up all my ammo on 3 ships and they took ages. A full round (6 shots) at best took out 20% of hull on a medium, and that was at point blank range. Before that would have totally eviscrated most medium ships and all small ships. I had a viper mk 3 survive a full volley at point blank!

Am i misremembering something? Or have the HP on ships been massively increased?

Aashenfox · Dec 25, 2018

It's not you, CZ ships are engineered and stacked to the eyeballs with shield boosters, HRPs and MRPs.

Merry Christmas from MoM

NecasekO · Dec 25, 2018

I do believe that ships in CZs were buffed significantly in 3.3. At one point my mostly cannon equipped Challenger ran out of ammo before the CZ bar was half-way filled.

It seems to be very random though, especially when the elite wings come into play - those are ridiculously powerful compared to the standard NPC ships.

FatFreddysCoat · Dec 25, 2018

Once I got over the shock that my 7 beam vette, and 5 MC FDL, and beam / dual shot frag Krait, weren’t evaporating NPC ships as usual, it was actually quite good fun having to work for it but yes: it was a mighty surprise!

Agony_Aunt · Dec 25, 2018

Well, that's a turn up for the books. Can't say i'm overjoyed. I'd have been fine with more challenging AI, but this just seems like a way to make things tougher without requiring more skill. I'm burning through ammo at a horrendous rate so i can't even finish a CZ challenge before i have to leave to rearm (or else ill have to keep using synthesis).

Maybe i need to adjust my tactics or something, or switch from a kinetic build to a thermal build, at leas then don't have to worry about ammo.

Anyone know how the Krait Mk2 handles an all efficient beam laser build or perhaps some sort of burst/pulse build?

Are there noticable differences between low/medium/high intensity? Is it different ships, or different ranks, or engineering differences?

Aashenfox · Dec 25, 2018

Agony_Aunt said:
Well, that's a turn up for the books. Can't say i'm overjoyed. I'd have been fine with more challenging AI, but this just seems like a way to make things tougher without requiring more skill. I'm burning through ammo at a horrendous rate so i can't even finish a CZ challenge before i have to leave to rearm (or else ill have to keep using synthesis).

Maybe i need to adjust my tactics or something, or switch from a kinetic build to a thermal build, at leas then don't have to worry about ammo.

Anyone know how the Krait Mk2 handles an all efficient beam laser build or perhaps some sort of burst/pulse build?

Are there noticable differences between low/medium/high intensity? Is it different ships, or different ranks, or engineering differences?

I use a kRait mk2 with 3 large gimballed (overcharged) multicannons (incendiary, autoloader, corrosive) and a pair of medium railguns (at least one feedback railgun is important now for the shield cell spamming) and do not run out of ammo before killing at least 7 or 8 ships and finishing the scenario (even High). You don't need an all laser loadout.

These new conflict zones are the best thing about the update so far for me. IT certainly has introduced theelement of efficiency to strategy. IF you're a good killer you can make better headway than less skilled or well equipped.

The AI has also been improved. Not leaps or anything, but they try a bit harder to get out from under your guns, use more cells and more chaff.

sqzbox1 · Dec 25, 2018

I agree - CZ's are better now. Yes you have to change tactics and be a smarter more tactical fighter and that is really what a CZ should be like - you are fighting professionals now, in professional boats. I still like my FAS for these. No matter what I try, and I am a PvE player solely, the FAS is still the best heavy fighter and so, to my mind anyway, is the best compromise and best survivor. What has happened is that now a CZ really feels like a different place to a Haz Res and since that makes the experience different it is a good thing. The ONLY thing that grinds my gears is the chaff. I just hate the spamming chaff boats because to me all it does is create an unnecessary and frustrating time sink. However, that is just my personal pet gripe. In general, MoM, I approve. Although - their superhuman ability to continuously nail you with rails is annoying.

Dagwit · Dec 25, 2018

Aaaargh! I've done very little combat, but I've been working up to going for my Juri Ishmaak bounties.

Oh well. I shall just have to grit my teeth and get on with it. I know that more combat-experienced commanders will relish the extra challenge, and I shall console myself with vicarious pleasure at all the fun they're having as I die repeatedly.[noob]

Aashenfox, my Challenger has been given a classic multicannon/laser loadout, but I shall ponder your advice about railguns.

Edit: BTW, does the advice about high intensity actually being easier than low intensity still hold true?

Bortas · Dec 25, 2018

Agony_Aunt said:
Anyone know how the Krait Mk2 handles an all efficient beam laser build or perhaps some sort of burst/pulse build?

3 large beams and 2 MCs, one corrosive, one auto-loader are working fine.

Aashenfox · Dec 25, 2018

Dagwit said:
Aaaargh! I've done very little combat, but I've been working up to going for my Juri Ishmaak bounties.

Oh well. I shall just have to grit my teeth and get on with it. I know that more combat-experienced commanders will relish the extra challenge, and I shall console myself with vicarious pleasure at all the fun they're having as I die repeatedly.[noob]

Aashenfox, my Challenger has been given a classic multicannon/laser loadout, but I shall ponder your advice about railguns.

Edit: BTW, does the advice about high intensity actually being easier than low intensity still hold true?

Yes, you are still more likely to attract too much attention in a low, compared to being in a high. I find medium to be the best middle ground for medium ships (lows you get a lot of attention and highs take notably longer). I do attract attention in medium, but is manageable. Boosting across the instance to where my buddies are usually gets a couple off your tail. They're far less target focused than they used to be, often switch targets in the middle of fighting you if you haven't done any damage to them for a while.

Challenger CZ loadout for me would be the following. 1 large overcharged incendiary multicannon, 1 small overcharged corrosive multicannon. 1 medium overcharged incendiary multicannon, 2 medium overcharged autoloader multicannons and 2 small long range feedback railguns. All multicannons fire together, spam the railguns whenever they use chaff or a shield cell.

Dagwit · Dec 25, 2018

Aashenfox, much appreciated, thanks!

BL1P · Dec 25, 2018

Its not you Agony

I noticed this also AND I like it !

Before I would just jump into a HIGH CZ in my FDL and not worry about it.
Now I need to keep my wits about me in order to survive long enough to get the Battle won

A few time I even dropped down to LOW or MED (The shame

)

As a side note :-
I used to be one of those bgs players who would kill single ships in CZs to win Wars.
Now I cant do that and that is a very good thing for the BGS

Ozram · Dec 25, 2018

I can’t even find a working CZ at the moment. Nothing spawns!

Agony_Aunt · Dec 25, 2018

Interesting advice about the rails, but it would really be a waste of a slot for me, i can't hit the backside of a barn with rails. Plasmas i can ok, but rails... nope. I probably just wobble too much.

Yeah, overall i'm fine with a more challenging CZ, but it seems to me the hitpoints are a bit off the scale. Or maybe i was just getting lots of high ranked ones.

Oh, can we now tell the PvPers there are challenging NPCs? Or will they say they are still too easy?

BL1P · Dec 25, 2018

Agony_Aunt said:
Interesting advice about the rails, but it would really be a waste of a slot for me, i can't hit the backside of a barn with rails. Plasmas i can ok, but rails... nope. I probably just wobble too much.

Yeah, overall i'm fine with a more challenging CZ, but it seems to me the hitpoints are a bit off the scale. Or maybe i was just getting lots of high ranked ones.

Oh, can we now tell the PvPers there are challenging NPCs? Or will they say they are still too easy?

Still too easy I think.
Make High CZ ships have either large wings of 10 ships with many more ships in the instance
Or
Drastically increase all NPC ships damage output. Example give them Modded and Powerplay weapons. (in High CZs)

Wait !

DNA-Decay · Dec 25, 2018

Seven.
Day.
Wars.

Jmanis · Dec 25, 2018

I used to do CZs with the "Sturdy Mount" modification on my MCs due to the increased penetration. When powerplant kills changed, I kept that as the extra firepower of Overcharged was somewhat unnecessary.

But with 3.3 I made the change to overcharged (two C3 MCs, one with corrosive, one with auto-loader to match the reduced rounds in the corrosive), and that fixed a lot of my problems.

My twin shard cannons also still seem very useful.

Agony_Aunt · Dec 25, 2018

BL1P said:
Still too easy I think.
Make High CZ ships have either large wings of 10 ships with many more ships in the instance
Or
Drastically increase all NPC ships damage output. Example give them Modded and Powerplay weapons. (in High CZs)

Wait !

Aren't they all technically speaking in a wing anyway? Everyone on one side is on the same team as it were.

Ian Skippy · Dec 25, 2018

Dagwit said:
Aaaargh! I've done very little combat, but I've been working up to going for my Juri Ishmaak bounties.

Oh well. I shall just have to grit my teeth and get on with it. I know that more combat-experienced commanders will relish the extra challenge, and I shall console myself with vicarious pleasure at all the fun they're having as I die repeatedly.[noob]

Aashenfox, my Challenger has been given a classic multicannon/laser loadout, but I shall ponder your advice about railguns.

Edit: BTW, does the advice about high intensity actually being easier than low intensity still hold true?

Keep in mind that you can chose the level by selecting CZs. Low-intensity CZs wont ever have the Elite Pack scenario entering, for example.

Ian Skippy · Dec 25, 2018

Agony_Aunt said:
Well, that's a turn up for the books. Can't say i'm overjoyed. I'd have been fine with more challenging AI, but this just seems like a way to make things tougher without requiring more skill. I'm burning through ammo at a horrendous rate so i can't even finish a CZ challenge before i have to leave to rearm (or else ill have to keep using synthesis).

Maybe i need to adjust my tactics or something, or switch from a kinetic build to a thermal build, at leas then don't have to worry about ammo.

Anyone know how the Krait Mk2 handles an all efficient beam laser build or perhaps some sort of burst/pulse build?

Are there noticable differences between low/medium/high intensity? Is it different ships, or different ranks, or engineering differences?

1) Best to go for mixed, as originally intended. I find a combo of mixing gimbals with fixed, and kinetics with lasers, the most useful.
2) The higher the level, the more types of scenarios are possible, and the higher the frequency. Low-CZ is all scenarios disabled.