Is it now worth getting Guardian Hull Reinforcements for the caustic resistances?

[Silaz Carbryck]

When I was engineering my two Thargoid hunter ships about two years ago, everyone was saying that the caustic resistance hull reinforcements weren't worth bothering with.

Now people seem to be using them according to some of the posts here.

Did they get a buff while I was away, and is it worth me flying out to the ruin site again to pick up another module blueprint?

I only got enough module blueprints for FSD booster, shield and module reinforcement upgrades before because they seemed like the only useful Guardian tech at the time.

 

[Jmanis]

When I was engineering my two Thargoid hunter ships about two years ago, everyone was saying that the caustic resistance hull reinforcements weren't worth bothering with.

Now people seem to be using them according to some of the posts here.

Did they get a buff while I was away, and is it worth me flying out to the ruin site again to pick up another module blueprint?

I only got enough module blueprints for FSD booster, shield and module reinforcement upgrades before because they seemed like the only useful Guardian tech at the time.

No buff, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest maybe they're definitely worth it for the caustic resists, if you're building a research/cold/non-com build. Though I'd suggest a mix of these + normal HRP G5 heavy duty + deep plating will be the optimal buffer you need.

Meanwhile...

... seriously... unless FD are going to do something about GHRPs not being affected by the anti-guardian field... meta alloy hrps (and just tech revolving around meta alloys full stop) needs a serious buff.

Maybe new meta alloy core internal hulls as a superior alternative to Military Composite as well...

 

[Jmanis]

Fwiw, i just threw the following into Coriolis... granted you can fit more HRPs on there, it starts to beg what you're trying to do.

Either way, that's as few HRPs you can replace with GHRPs before you start losing caustic EHP instead of gaining it. How that affects caustic environments I'm not sure: https://s.orbis.zone/mh_2

 

[Silaz Carbryck]

Ok thanks. I think I might leave my builds as they are for now, and see how I get on. I just wont have the power available for stacks of GHRP's.

But I've still tinkered a little to add what I could to my ship. By swapping out two of the GMRP's for standard MRP's I would then have enough power to fit three class 5 GHRP's for a reasonable amount of caustic resistance, but it sacrifices a lot of general HP's.

Here's the revised build anyway:

Xenophobe, Anaconda

And the original build to compare:

Xenophobe, Anaconda

Caustic HP's being the same as absolute armour are still reasonable with the original build, just no resistances.

Am I to assume it's worth including some corrosion resistant cargo space for booty as well now? If the bits that are left over are valuable I will definately fit some cargo, but probably only two tons worth.

 

[Jmanis]

Am I to assume it's worth including some corrosion resistant cargo space for booty as well now? If the bits that are left over are valuable I will definately fit some cargo, but probably only two tons worth.

It's just standard for me, on the off chance i ever come across something corrosive and new for the first time. I carry a handful of limpets on the tragically hopeful occasion there's something to research/recon/hatchbreak/collect.

At the moment, that would just be tissue samples and other Thargoid bits.

 

[Kallipar]

Without going full engineer. Guardian hull provides protection against caustic and diminishes damage so prolonging the life of caustic sinks. On top of that the protection is carried over to externals and with the use of repair limpets can also increase the effective HP. As an aside it does provide a measure of protection against lightning.
No number crunching here as it takes a while.

 

[Hooplah]

Basically Guardian (5% caustic) and Meta Alloy (3% caustic) HRPs add resistances at the loss of normal HRP armour to slow down the rate of caustic damage to a ship. The Guardian HRPs also add thermal heat making the ship more visible to the Thargoids. It's a mix of HRPs depending upon the specific Thargoid mission.

Here's an engineered G5 heavy duty deep plating HRP versus a Guardian and Meta Alloy HRP specs from a Coriolis build. Have fun deciding what to use.

 

[Jmanis]

The Guardian HRPs also add thermal heat making the ship more visible to the Thargoids.

Do they? The (granted, beta) resting heat on Coriolis doesn't change regardless of whether you add them or not... but i can't go in game to fiddle atm...

Scratch that, the resting heat doesn't change at all

 

[Silaz Carbryck]

Just been trying to catch up with some quick research from the wiki of what's been going on while I was away from the game. Looks like the caustic heatsink launcher is definitely an essential, but getting the mats all looks a bit dangerous to me! Presumably there aren't excessive numbers of Caustic Generators to be found swarming our ships in these Maelstroms, and it is still possible to shoot one down before it detonates to get the required mats. And packing limpets are going to be quicker and safer than manual scooping in these conditions.

Might have to modify my Krait Thargoid hunter for this role, not sure my usual Cobra materials gatherer is going to stand much of a chance in these circumstances.

I won't ask for any further advice, I'll just go ahead and do it when I get around to it, and if I make any mistakes I will just have to learn from them, and pay the hard way.

 

[Kallipar]

Basically Guardian (5% caustic) and Meta Alloy (3% caustic) HRPS add resistances at the loss of normal HRP armour to slow down the rate of caustic damage to a ship. The Guardian HRPs also add thermal heat making the ship more visible to the Thargoids. It's a mix of HRPs depending upon the specific Thargoid mission.

The losses are minimal in a caustic environment. In fact they outperform normal HD deep plate in Thargoid combat under nearly all circumstances. If you have the power go GHRP.

 

[tolm]

Bear in mind that the caustic resistance only protects against, y’know, caustic.

So if you’re planning on ramming stuff … and/or you have Caustic Sinks fitted.

It’s a 50/50 for me: I’ve had ships with engineered HRPs only and ships with GHRPs only - as well as a mix. I’m not sure I’ve really noticed that one is appreciably superior to the other.

 

[Kallipar]

Hull reinforcement 488 for a 5D GHRP
HD 738 5D Grade 5 Human. However the effective HP from this is about the same, this means that in a caustic environment your rate of decay can be significantly more using human. Up to 30% more for say a Clipper 5300 total HP for GHRP vs 5400 total HP with human, upon which I based this comparison. That means excluding complete caustic sink protection your systems start dying in very quick time especially exposed modules.

 

[tolm]

488 + 5% is only about 513 which is 225 less than the engineered standard HRP. Far from equivalent effective HPs!

So, you need a base hull of around 4500 before the 5% caustic resist from the GHRP is “worth more” than the engineered HRPs extra integrity.

On most ships, that will require at least a couple of engineered HRPs to get the base hull up to the point where the caustic resist starts to pay off.

 

[Kallipar]

488 + 5% is only about 513 which is 225 less than the engineered standard HRP. Far from equivalent effective HPs!

So, you need a base hull of around 4500 before the 5% caustic resist from the GHRP is “worth more” than the engineered HRPs extra integrity.

On most ships, that will require at least a couple of engineered HRPs to get the base hull up to the point where the caustic resist starts to pay off.

No. I suggest not looking at the boost I put that info there first because of the way things work for transparency. The effective HP which can be seen on EDSY gives you a better idea. It is not a simple calculation as not all the damage comes from absolute Thargoid damage. See how complex some these calculations can be by looking at D2EA calculations on shields. Quick and Dirty comparison.

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

Check under ARM for comparison, this may be a bit off as doing this on phone and yes it has Guardian modules as it wasn't designed for Maelstrom.

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

At 3.4k or 2 off 5D and 1 off 4D HD Deep plate you have a slight increase in overall integrity using Human, but this does not include the effect of % integrity on modules. This is a really arcane part which includes lightning degradation. If the base integrity is diminished then your modules fail.

So if you wish to use Human below this point you are better purely on HP, and I agree a mix to up the base will help but not on overall protection, though at low level against an Interceptor that really is a moot point. Also it doesn't help if all your damage is from Thargoid main guns.

 

[tolm]

No. I suggest not looking at the boost I put that info there first because of the way things work for transparency. The effective HP which can be seen on EDSY gives you a better idea. It is not a simple calculation as not all the damage comes from absolute Thargoid damage. See how complex some these calculations can be by looking at D2EA calculations on shields. Quick and Dirty comparison.

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

Check under ARM for comparison, this may be a bit off as doing this on phone and yes it has Guardian modules as it wasn't designed for Maelstrom.

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

At 3.4k or 2 off 5D and 1 off 4D HD Deep plate you have a slight increase in overall integrity using Human, but this does not include the effect of % integrity on modules. This is a really arcane part which includes lightning degradation. If the base integrity is diminished then your modules fail.

So if you wish to use Human below this point you are better purely on HP, and I agree a mix to up the base will help but not on overall protection, though at low level against an Interceptor that really is a moot point. Also it doesn't help if all your damage is from Thargoid main guns.

Agreed - it’s far from straight-forward and module protection is another potential beneift but difficult to quantify / observe.

 

[Kallipar]

Agreed - it’s far from straight-forward and module protection is another potential beneift but difficult to quantify / observe.

Yeah, been doing my head in on that one.

 

[Silaz Carbryck]

Ok. Change of plan. I've decided that actually a 50/50 spread of GHRP's and HRP's is probably more suitable now. I don't think that we would have these GHRP's in the game if they weren't supposed to be used. Also from one of the replies here I learned of the class 7 Universal multi limpet controller, which for some reason escaped my notice when it was released some time ago.

I'm going to use the Anaconda for combat as well as for the research now, not the Krait for research, simply because it's more of a tank and has better compartment space. I've made all the modifications to the loadouts for both my Krait II and Anaconda builds so that the Anaconda now has a spread of both armor types, and I am satisfied with the resistances and HP numbers. There's no GMRP's in the Krait anymore, but it's got a well armored power plant, and a small AFMU to try and make up for this deficiency, leaving the thrusters, sensors and frame shift drive as the most vulnerable modules.

One thing is for sure though. When I've finally got all the prerequisites for combat, I don't plan on going up against any Thargoids on my own. I believe that it's going to be far more efficient and less costly in repair bills and synth materials if these Thargoids are tackled by a well-coordinated team each time. My plan is to have at least one large ship in the wing that can tank a lot of damage and get up close to bring down exposed hearts, with the faster medium ships hanging back at longer range, so they are not taking too much damage, with those ships working to expose the hearts.

If this was Dungeons and Dragons, then you wouldn't dream of taking on the dragon at the end of the level on your own without the support of your adventuring party would you?

I now just have to engineer three more shield boosters and make a few other minor engineering adjustments to some modules to fine tune my ships, get the rest of my kit researched and unlocked, and then I can be ready to establish 'Xeno Division'.

The revised builds for my Thargoid Slayer ships are now presented thus:

Xenophobe 158

Xenophobe 284

 

[Silaz Carbryck]

That said, a higher base armour rating for both MAHRP's and GHRP's buff wouldn't go amiss.

 

[tolm]

That said, a higher base armour rating for both MAHRP's and GHRP's buff wouldn't go amiss.

Or some C6 / C7 variants - although that only helps bigger ships.