Is it worth it to run without shields?

deathmagnet · Apr 17, 2015

This is a question you see a lot on the forums and I wanted to give other CMDR's a perspective from someone that has wrecked a lot of ships and lost a lot of money doing so.

I have come up with a formula to help you determine if the extra profit is worth running without shields. The calculations I came up with are generic but you can input the numbers from the runs you are doing to determine for yourself. Here is the formula:

[cost of rebuy + (total tonnage of ship without shields * cost of cargo per ton)] / (profit per ton * extra tonnage gained by running without shields) = Number of runs needed to cover loss if you loose ship and cargo (round up)

That is all real confusing so here is an example for a T6 (as people like to run T6's without shields). Rebuy costs are based generic builds.

(150,000 + (112*10000) / (1000 * 8) =
1,270,000 / 8000 = 159 runs needed to cover loss of cargo and ship combined.

You can take this further. Average run takes about 6 minutes one way.

6 * 159 = 15.9 hrs of game time. If you loose a ship before then you have wasted that game time.

Try it out. Plug in the numbers from your route. Here are some of the numbers I have come up with. The only ship that it might be worth it is the Sidewinder (15-30 runs depending on cost of cargo and profit):

T6:
130-170 runs
13-17 hrs

Cobra:
120-180 runs
12-18 hrs

Asp:
185-260 runs
18.5-26 hrs

Hauler:
30-60 runs
3-6 hrs

49rTbird · Apr 17, 2015

Are you the lucky kind?

Kordred · Apr 17, 2015

Here was my thinking in my T6. I ran without shields. I figure any player who wants to kill me will kill me shields or not. I can outrun NPC's shields or not. With the extra cargo space though I can make more than the cost of insurance in just a couple runs. So, no shields for me.

deathmagnet · Apr 17, 2015

Kordred said:
Here was my thinking in my T6. I ran without shields. I figure any player who wants to kill me will kill me shields or not. I can outrun NPC's shields or not. With the extra cargo space though I can make more than the cost of insurance in just a couple runs. So, no shields for me.

Its not the just the cost of the insurance you have to factor. You have to factor the cost of your cargo as well. (which the formula does). And its not the interdiction kill you have to look out for. It's the mail slot murder. As the old saying goes for bikers. It's not your riding that will kill you, its other peoples driving.

Armchair · Apr 17, 2015

It depends on your ship. If you are hauling goods in a hauler, then you want to ditch your shields because it dramatically increases your hauling capacity.

If you are in a type 6 or above, then you always want shields. Small shields, but shields nonetheless. Ditching the shields on those ships provides a negligible increase in hauling capacity. Korded is forgetting the cost of replacing several million Credits of lost commodities in addition to the insurance fee. It would take hundreds of runs for the measly 8 tons of cargo to make up the loss that could have been avoided by running even a humble D3 shield.

SpySat1 · Apr 17, 2015

Do you like to drive without breaks?

deathmagnet · Apr 17, 2015

Armchair said:
It depends on your ship. If you are hauling goods in a hauler, then you want to ditch your shields because it dramatically increases your hauling capacity.

If you are in a type 6 or above, then you always want shields. Small shields, but shields nonetheless. Ditching the shields on those ships provides a negligible increase in hauling capacity. Korded is forgetting the cost of replacing several million Credits of lost commodities in addition to the insurance fee. It would take hundreds of runs for the measly 8 tons of cargo to make up the loss that could have been avoided by running even a humble D3 shield.

Hauler takes 30-60 runs to make up for whatever you loose if you blow up 1 time. 30-60 runs is 3-6 hrs of game time. Which isn't too bad but, most people in haulers are new, and docking is the most dangerous thing in the game for them. Of course, everyone is free to do what they want. I have seen many unshielded traders. This just puts things into perspective. You can figure out exactly how much you loose in credits and time if you die because you didn't have shields.

Harker · Apr 17, 2015

Just don't crash into things and look what's coming through the mail slot before you go through. You don't need shields.

Roybe · Apr 17, 2015

As long as you are willing to lose your ship, it can be worth it. If the loss of your ship, through your own, or another players, actions would send you into a rage, removing the game from your machine, coming to the forums for the obligatory 'c'ya later gator' post, I would suggest saving yourself the aggravation and run with shields. Although I am being somewhat facetious, check your personal acceptance for loss and decide accordingly.

Deathmagnet said it nicer than I did.

LordKee · Apr 17, 2015

Interesting and a pretty well thought out formula. That said, I did my trading without shields (sidewinder-cobra-asp-python-anaconda-t9). I was only after the rank though and thus interested in profits and not what I earned. Some 70-75 million in repairs (and about the same in fuel, it was prior the nerf after all).

deathmagnet · Apr 17, 2015

LordKee said:
Interesting and a pretty well thought out formula. That said, I did my trading without shields (sidewinder-cobra-asp-python-anaconda-t9). I was only after the rank though and thus interested in profits and not what I earned. Some 70-75 million in repairs (and about the same in fuel, it was prior the nerf after all).

Ya, if you can run without shields and make it work, more power to you. I have seen some very skilled pilots out there. I am not one of them.....

Tarman · Apr 17, 2015

I've had enough near-misses, collisions, narrow escapes and close shaves that shields are a thing that stays on all rides. It's like upgrading your LS, when you need it, you will be infinitely glad you have it.

hoopy · Apr 17, 2015

A tiny shield won't save you though. It may prevent a minor scrape but if you hit hard or get interdicted by a player it is completely useless. So no shields for my trading. Got up to a T7 with only one death (from a player pirate) and a few 100Cr repair bills for removing scratches from the paint

deathmagnet · Apr 18, 2015

Another thing to consider is if your running in open or solo. If your in solo then i would see it as a more viable option. NPC's enter and exit predictably. But with so many CMDR's careless entrance and exit of stations, it would seem hard to be able to span the runs without at least one incident. Another question. If all things equal, over a long period of time, who would be ahead? The law of averages should start to weigh in after a while. If you had 2 traders running the same 2 routes for the same amount of time, all skills equal (put it at middle of the road skill. once again, the average, not the exception). CMDR and NPC pirate interdictions will be about equal so those are a wash with or without shields. NPC's you will likely escape, CMDR's you would likely die. The ones with shields would get away with a lower repair bill than the one that without. Another average would be bad approaches (varying degrees of bad) with the very worst causing destruction to either CMDR, the middle of the road ones causing destruction to only the non-shielded, and the mild ones causing destruction to only the non-shielded sometimes. The same average would be met with ship collisions. Then there is the factor of those that would purposely ram a non shielded trader for fun. We must remember the only difference between running with or without shields is about 4-8 tons of cargo on the low end ships (about 8-16 on the high end) which is only going to give you an average extra profit of 4-8k credits (8k-16k on the high end ships). We also mustn't forget the COST OF THE CARGO. Ship rebuys are small, but loss of cargo runs in the millions (hence the reason it's in the equation).

I would think in the long run, over a long enough period of time the shielded CMDR pulls ahead in overall profit. Of course, if profit wasn't your main focus none of these arguments matter.

I would be interested to know how many people instantly regret not having shields the first time they run into something to hard. From personal exp and stories i have heard, when they see that large chunk of money lost from their bank account (because remember they are likely hauling a couple mil in cargo, if not more. Everyone always forgets about the cargo) they realize their folly.

And yes i know. Nothing saves you from pirate CMDR's shielded or no, nothing saves you from being an idiot at the dock, if you haven't read that i have typed that already then you are not fully reading my posts...

But anyways, I hope some people find this forum post useful. Especially new CMDR's that are unsure. BTW ***bump****

deathmagnet · Apr 18, 2015

I just want to make sure everyone gets a chance to see this. I want to hear peoples opinion.

Thanks

Jason S · Apr 18, 2015

I have not died yet so I am a bit proud of my zero insurance claims on my statistics and I am at thirty five million assets.

Without shields my zero insurance claims would be not zero.

Coldbrew · Apr 18, 2015

I also never favored running without shields for the small profit it would bring. I am not the best pilot. Many times shields saved my arrsss.

xaisis · Apr 18, 2015

i have died 1 time, flying without shields in a T7. full boost speed into the stations back wall, so i am pretty sure a trading sized shield would not have saved me.

When i choose with or without shields i factor, my flying skills and the ships stats... mass, speed, durability, acceleration, repair cost(before nerf).. and ofcos if i am in group or solo.

my choices have been:
Sidewinder: shields
Hauler: shields
Cobra: shields
T6: no shields
Asp: no shields
T7: no shields (1 death boost and ram station)
Python: shielded (due to repair cost)
T9: shielded (due to ship size, and repair cost)
Anaconda: shielded (due to high insurance/playing in mobius, repair cost)

If i play mobius then il likely go shielded on anything bigger then a Asp.

Cargobane · Apr 18, 2015

No, never. Unless it's for a specific mission short term.

RustiSwordz · Apr 18, 2015

Anyone running without shields is either very lucky or very stupid. Most of us would fall into the latter category.

Shields are an insurance so you don't end up using insurance.