Is "optimal mass" a misnomer in the outfitting screen?

[TeeWee]

I'm somewhat confused about the "optimal mass" stat on equipment slots. I don't think that it actually means optimum mass, because I'm seeing different effects than I would expect if it were actually optimal.

If it were actually optimal, I'd expect performance to deteriorate the farther I'm from this optimum in both directions. So, if I had a fully laden mass of 200T and a FSD with optimal mass of 750T, I'd expect very low performance, compared to a ship where the fully laden mass actually matches the 750T. But I don't think that's what I'm seeing, as getting an FSD of a higher class always helps my Cobra in max Ly, even if A4 right now far exceeds the mass I'm currently running and something between E4 and D4 best matches my current mass.

So optimal I guess means something like the highest mass where the piece of equipment functions at 100% efficiency; I'm not quite sure what the correct technical term for this type of stat is, but it's not optimal to me.

 

[Starender]

sadly no, a ship with 180 mass and 250 optimal jump for exemple will Jump a lot farther that it is supposed to be

that's exactly why some ship are very OP like the Cobra, or weak like a Viper

 

[Altissimus]

...are very OP like the Cobra...

What does this mean? Are you referring to the Cobra having a relatively good jump range when equipped with the best FSDs? Or are you of the view it can 1-shot an Elite Anaconda while tanking multiple dungeons simultaneously.

I am curious what "very OP" means; it is a dangerous and inflammatory description.

Will you next be asking for a Cobra nerf?

 

[Starender]

this ship is OP as hell in everything to the point that there is no need to pilot any other ship till you can get your hands on the next OP ship, the ASP, only blind people can't see it seriously it doesn't even need an explanation

 

[shrinkshooter]

I'm somewhat confused about the "optimal mass" stat on equipment slots. I don't think that it actually means optimum mass, because I'm seeing different effects than I would expect if it were actually optimal.

Optimal means "better performance at a mass less than or equal to this number," that's all. I don't know if there's a sliding scale, or if it's a two-tiered system, but that's what I've found it to mean.

this ship is OP as hell in everything to the point that there is no need to pilot any other ship

Uh huh. Except that with both of those ships' turn speeds, you could do nothing against me in a close combat viper, and if you knew anything about combat, well...like you said:

only blind people can't see it seriously it doesn't even need an explanation

It's definitely not the best combat vessel. It's decent, but far from spectacular.

 

[Starender]

lol man a Cobra and Viper turns almost the same, but the Cobra is a Tank and can stack a lot more shield cells, only a noob would loose to a viper when piloting a Cobra

 

[Im_Lost]

sadly no, a ship with 180 mass and 250 optimal jump for exemple will Jump a lot farther that it is supposed to be

that's exactly why some ship are very OP like the Cobra, or weak like a Viper

I don't think you really understand how equipment works or the roles of these ships :/

lol man a Cobra and Viper turns almost the same, but the Cobra is a Tank and can stack a lot more shield cells, only a noob would loose to a viper when piloting a Cobra

Not true at all, the Viper is a better combat ship and actually has stronger shields than a Cobra and a higher top speed. It has much better hardpoint placement as well, the Cobra's are pretty bad.

 

[Jim LeCreepé]

Optimal mass should be renamed in "nominal" mass. The bigger the difference between current mass and "nominal" mass of the drive/thruster/shield the better. If your ship exceeds the maximal mass of said module, your performance deteriorates.

For example: A Viper with all A class modules does not really gain an advantage. Only a light Viper with A Thrusters would benefit in terms of speed and maneuverability.

 

[Starender]

I don't think you really understand how equipment works or the roles of these ships :/

role of a Viper: is to look ridiculous in front of a Cobra
role of a Cobra: is to be a legendary ship specialized in everything

i can throw the numbers if you want me to, i have made like 10 posts about it

 

[TeeWee]

Ermm. guys. Not asking about OP-ness of the Cobra vs other ships.

Thanks @shrinkshooter. That's what I'm thinking right now, but definately not what I was expecting when I first saw the stat optimal mass. It made me mentally dismiss those upgrades... Only now that I'm really paying attention to them, do I notice that the stat means something else than the wording implied.

 

[Altissimus]

lol man a Cobra and Viper turns almost the same, but the Cobra is a Tank and can stack a lot more shield cells, only a noob would loose to a viper when piloting a Cobra

I took down numerous Cobras in my viper.

The viper is a specialist combat ship; the cobra is an all-rounder.

Only a noob...blah blah

 

[Starender]

I took down numerous Cobras in my viper.

The viper is a specialist combat ship; the cobra is an all-rounder.

Only a noob...blah blah

the reaction of another pilot and his skills and knowledge are something to take into account, you can't just say that a ship is better that another just because you killed him, this morning i killed CMDRs in ASP/Cobra in my Viper, that doesn't mean my ship is better

what i say here is that the actual Viper has no purpose to exist when the Cobra has the same speed/maneverability/weapons and better Jump/Cargo

how can it call himself a fighter when he is as strong as an all rounder ship ?

 

[Im_Lost]

the reaction of another pilot and his skills and knowledge are something to take into account, you can't just say that a ship is better that another just because you killed him, this morning i killed CMDRs in ASP/Cobra in my Viper, that doesn't mean my ship is better

what i say here is that the actual Viper has no purpose to exist when the Cobra has the same speed/maneverability/weapons and better Jump/Cargo

how can it call himself a fighter when he is as strong as an all rounder ship ?

Take it from people who have been playing the game since early alpha and have used all ships. The Viper IS better for combat...

 

[Helo]

role of a Viper: is to look ridiculous in front of a Cobra
role of a Cobra: is to be a legendary ship specialized in everything

i can throw the numbers if you want me to, i have made like 10 posts about it

Yes yes, post your numbers, and I'll bring a viper to your door. Numbers don't mean much. Also, turn speed does NOT equal turn radius. Turn radius is the killer. I've had no problem smashing cobras with a viper, hard point placement and turning radius is a win.

OP: sorry to derail, but if you've seen the movie Idoacracy, you'll understand why I can't leave this one alone

 

[Altissimus]

what i say here is that the actual Viper has no purpose to exist when the Cobra has the same speed/maneverability/weapons and better Jump/Cargo

The Viper is faster.

Turn off flight assist, turn, boost, shoot, kill.

For a pure 1-v-1 dual, I'll take the Viper, thanks.

 

[Starender]

Take it from people who have been playing the game since early alpha and have used all ships. The Viper IS better for combat...

the only things that are better are that it is a little smaller and can use fixed weapons

the Cobra is lot more tanky, can use a lot more shield cells, will never have trouble with MW, has a faster boost, can Jump farther, have a better view, and of course have a lot more cargo

i don't see any advantage of using a Viper instead of a Cobra

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The Viper is faster.

Turn off flight assist, turn, boost, shoot, kill.

For a pure 1-v-1 dual, I'll take the Viper, thanks.

a Cobra can do the exact same thing

 

[Helo]

the reaction of another pilot and his skills and knowledge are something to take into account, you can't just say that a ship is better that another just because you killed him, this morning i killed CMDRs in ASP/Cobra in my Viper, that doesn't mean my ship is better

what i say here is that the actual Viper has no purpose to exist when the Cobra has the same speed/maneverability/weapons and better Jump/Cargo

how can it call himself a fighter when he is as strong as an all rounder ship ?

Umm... Yeah... If you can't make a viper out perform a cobra, "you're doing it wrong" (tm)

Not everything is the same, not even close. Run your stats all you want, when it's down to the thick of it with both pilots squeezing out everything they can from those ships, the viper gives more.

 

[Spurgeon Tanner]

I love it when people start saying that this or that is overpowered. Why do these people assume that everything must be fair? If you are taking on a cobra in a sidewinder then yes the cobra will seem to be op. If you are taking on a sidewinder in a hauler, then the sidewinder will seem op. The lesson is to pick your fights and not to expect to win if you bring a knife to a gunfight.

This whole op b/s is what kills games. It is typically younger players who insist that everyone else is op and that every aspect of the game needs to be nerfed so that it is 'fair'. What they are really saying is that they have been spoilt during their little lives and have no appreciation of what a challenge is. They want instant wins with no real effort. I think we owe them a duty to encourage them to make the effort rather than they grow up to find that the universe does not spin around them, that the world is inherently unfair, and that there are things that mummy cannot fix.

Life sucks - deal with it!

 

[Helo]

Cobra has a better view than a viper? ... OK, obvious troll is obvious... Moving on

 

[Carradin]

On topic: Yes, optimal mass is a misnomer. It should list minimum mass only, as anything above the minimum mass gives better performance (for thrusters and FSDs) or simply doesn't matter (for shields).

Off topic:

role of a Viper: is to look ridiculous in front of a Cobra
role of a Cobra: is to be a legendary ship specialized in everything

i can throw the numbers if you want me to, i have made like 10 posts about it

Not surprising, since you seem to post about little else. You make a lot of false assumptions, though.

1) While the Cobra and the Viper have the same listed maneuverability, this is not the case in practice. The higher mass of the Cobra works against it, giving it a lot of inertia... so yes, it can turn well, but the velocity vector changes significantly slower than for a Viper. The end result is that a well-piloted Viper can comfortably outmaneuver a Cobra. But the pilot needs to know how to exploit that weakness of the Cobra.

2) Yes, the Viper and the Cobra have the same sizes of hardpoints, but their positioning is very different. The Viper's hardpoints are clustered near the centerline, while two of the Cobra's hardpoints are significantly offset from it. This means Cobras need to use gimbaled weapons in the outer slots to be able to bring all four hardpoints to bear on smaller targets, making it vulnerable to chaff.

3) The Cobra is a far larger target, especially from above or below (though also somewhat from the front or back). Considering that the Viper is already able to outmaneuver a Cobra, the fact that they're also easy to hit is quite the weakness.

The Cobra is a great ship, and I'd still rate it as quite a bit better overall than the Viper, but it isn't everything you claim it is. It isn't a better fighter than a Viper, given pilots who know what they're doing and know how to equip their ships, though the Viper pilot will definitely have to work for it.