Newcomer / Intro Is speed or stealth a viable combat option in E:D?

TheStrategist

T
Is speed or stealth a viable combat option in E:D?
Just to be clear, I haven't ordered the game yet, but am considering it. I wouldn't really be interested in combat, I would want to play in a transportation or exploration niche. Is outrunning or escaping from other players or NPCs possible? If there are any loadouts or guides about this a link would be super.
Thanks.
 

Feldspar

Feldspar
Running away is part of the game, you don't need a specific load out for it, just turn tail and boost away.
 

Dommarraa

Dommarraa
Stealth is possible, but not really effective on combat.

Ships have various speeds which can modified a little in many many ways

Edshipyard.com allways you to drool over possibilities, and the wiki will explain the components a little, but you would have to play to understand it properly
 

purf

purf
There's the mechanic of Silent Running (reducing your signature to a degree that makes you disappear from the scanner) and in some of the videos starting
with this one (I think) you can nicely see the scope of it. Nothing too fancy or important for now as engaging Silent Running comes at the hefty price of disabling
your shields (which recooovveeer sloooowwly) but I feel/hope it will get some more attention in future upgrades.

but in general yes, Elite offers some ways to be... elusive.
 
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Almighty Bob

Banned
Almighty Bob
Stealth, yes for running not for fighting.

I fitted a cobra with heat dumps that meant if I wanted, no one could see me outside of about 1k. ( what I mean is they could not lock onto me on a scanner, they knew something was there but could but could not scan me, they might see my engine trails. If I stopped I was 99% invisible but then what is the point)
The problem is you have no shields when moving this way so 5 secs of fire = death.

It is a good balance in game.

Speed yes, in a Cobra with minimal mass and good tactical plan you escape 999/1000, But you sacrifice a lot for that speed.

This experimenting has led me to always use an Cobra in populated space. For exploring always use a low mass ASP (capitals! always spell ASP in capitals)
 

who?

who?
The Viper is probably the fastest craft in the game, and that's certainly useful if you want to run from combat, but the difference isn't so big that you can just zoom off untouched. Particularly against real players.

The Vulture is one of the slower craft in the game, but when fully upgraded its boost speed is pretty close to the Viper's, plus the boost recharges so quickly you can boost almost constantly, keeping a steady ~350m/s against the Viper's maximum boost of 400m/s (though I've never reached 390m/s). So they have negated a large part of the speed advantage. I'd love a really fast craft, much faster than the Viper, but with minimal weapons and shields, a pure speed demon for avoidance rather than combat.

As for stealth, it's a bit awkward. There is a Silent Running mode (shields down, heat exhausts closed to minimise heat signature so heat builds up to dangerous levels) but you're still not invisible, plus you need to start turning off modules to avoid blowing up; and that's awkward to do when in/near combat. On occasion, I've been chasing an NPC and they turned on Silent Running which made it much harder to see and track them from a distance (and fire on them, since I have gimballed weapons which kind-of require a lock-on).

I'd love if Frontier added missions where Stealth gave you a big advantage, but I haven't seen anything like that yet.
 

Almighty Bob

Banned
Almighty Bob
who? said:
The Viper is probably the fastest craft in the game, and that's certainly useful if you want to run from combat, but the difference isn't so big that you can just zoom off untouched. Particularly against real players.

The Vulture is one of the slower craft in the game, but when fully upgraded its boost speed is pretty close to the Viper's, plus the boost recharges so quickly you can boost almost constantly, keeping a steady ~350m/s against the Viper's maximum boost of 400m/s (though I've never reached 390m/s). So they have negated a large part of the speed advantage. I'd love a really fast craft, much faster than the Viper, but with minimal weapons and shields, a pure speed demon for avoidance rather than combat.

As for stealth, it's a bit awkward. There is a Silent Running mode (shields down, heat exhausts closed to minimise heat signature so heat builds up to dangerous levels) but you're still not invisible, plus you need to start turning off modules to avoid blowing up; and that's awkward to do when in/near combat. On occasion, I've been chasing an NPC and they turned on Silent Running which made it much harder to see and track them from a distance (and fire on them, since I have gimballed weapons which kind-of require a lock-on).

I'd love if Frontier added missions where Stealth gave you a big advantage, but I haven't seen anything like that yet.
Click to expand...

Cobra --- normal speed 315---- boost 450. that is with full fuel, no cargo mass 242 I have a spread sheet
 

purf

purf
Almighty Bob said:
snip
Click to expand...

+rep to you. Even though I like to have Heat Sinks installed for exactly these reasons, I tend to forget their usage as -
hello, ^ who? - it's just really an akward thing to do: making yourself super vulnerable in a combat situation... Sometimes it's the right thing to do.
So, thx for reminding me :)
 

Hrolf

H
I'm a newbie myself. First you will start out with a Sidewinder a small quick but not exceptionally fast ship. I got shot up by other players 5 or 6 times before I learned to switch to solo mode (you'll be asked when booting the game). After that I was able to outrun NPC pirates 9 times out of ten. The problem with all the ships that these other people are mentioning is that they cost a LOT. And you will be poor and stay that way until you pick up more skills in the game, there is a steep learning curve. Some ships cost in the millions and you start out with 1000. And trading will get you 2000-2500 max on each trade with occasional windfalls at the 10000-15000 range.

Some problems with the Sidewinder (SW) are: small cargo capacity which reduces your chance to make money by hauling cargo. A small fuel tank which means you have to refuel frequently. You can add a fuel scoop to a ship and refuel from stars (not as hard as it sounds) but from what I can figure out you'd have to give up cargo capacity or some other gear to add that to a SW. That makes exploring, which is another way to, make money difficult.

What I did was work for several days to get enough money to buy an Adder (87000 - trade in on SW) which is a larger version of the SW which has double the fuel and cargo capacity and also has empty slots that you can add fuel scoops and other gear to. Once you have a ship you can spend over a million upgrading the components. You can trade, explore and I guess do mining in an Adder. And I suppose upgrade the weapons to make a fighter out of it but not as good as a dedicated fighter.

So my advice is to:
1) play solo until you have the skills and an upgraded ship to do otherwise
2) Work on trading with your SW and take opportunities to get some exploring money (you be notified of a unidentified astronomical object) and save up for a better ship. Upgrades you add to the SW (better engines ect) you will get 90% back when you trade in the SW.
3) run away when attacked--use engine boost and try to follow the escape vector that will be on your screen. It jumps all over tho.
4) so far as I can see silent running only works for short periods because of heat build up, the same with engine speed boost

This ED Wikia page shows all the ships and their characteristics and price: http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Ships

One thing that made a major difference for me was remapping the throttle cut off to a button on my joystick for instant access. A big help when you land at a dock.

Hopefully this info is correct but please correct me if I'm wrong about something.
 

Pyrion

Pyrion
For a big ship, the orca is pretty fast. But viper and cobra are still the fastest. The orcas speed is comparable to the clipper, the other fast and big ship.

I am one of the very few who indeed tested the orca, so if you have questions about it, ask me :)
 

Ophion

Ophion
who? said:
Though I still have never seen 400m/s even in a Viper, either I need to strip stuff down, or I don't have the very best thrusters to get the last few m/s.
Click to expand...
A class thrusters greatly improve top speed, boost speed and maneuvrebility of the ship.
 

Almighty Bob

Banned
Almighty Bob
who? said:
Are you sure? The Wikia page (and my memory) say boost speed is 400 (http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Cobra), the same as a Viper's.

Though I still have never seen 400m/s even in a Viper, either I need to strip stuff down, or I don't have the very best thrusters to get the last few m/s.
Click to expand...

100% sure. For a stock cobra the figures are about right, Keeping the weight down and fitting the best thrusters gives these figures. Someone on the forum has gone quicker when it has been discussed previously, I suspect they got rid of any modules they did not need like fuel scoops and weapons and/or ran on low fuel.

Some say the clipper can boost more often so overall is quicker as it can maintain an average higher speed.
 

who?

who?
Thanks for the info guys! It'd be interesting to see if you can get a Cobra / Viper to 450m/s in a *practical* configuration (i.e with FSD, shields and weapons for bounty hunting, or with a reasonable cargo capability for trading, or a mining laser and refinery & cargo for mining).

Looking at a Vulture chasing a Viper, I can get a minimum 350 m/s if constantly boosting, a Viper can get ~400 m/s boosting (but as above, perhaps both could go a little faster if stripped down). That means the Viper can only pull away at 50 m/s. If they have to get to 2Km distance to be safe from fire, that takes 40 seconds, that's plenty time for a Vulture's massive weapons to take it down. Sure the Viper can duck and weave, but the Vulture is even more agile.

So I'd love to see an even faster craft, even if it had to have compromises elsewhere; as a pure blockade-runner / shuttle / small & precious cargo carrier. As it stands, the fact that slower craft can still boost at similar speeds means there's little advantage in picking a marginally faster craft over a slower craft with much more powerful weapons.
 

Kancro Vantas

Kancro Vantas
TheStrategist said:
Is speed or stealth a viable combat option in E:D?
Just to be clear, I haven't ordered the game yet, but am considering it. I wouldn't really be interested in combat, I would want to play in a transportation or exploration niche. Is outrunning or escaping from other players or NPCs possible? If there are any loadouts or guides about this a link would be super.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Back to topic...seems your question is if you could safely be a trader or explorer? Absofreakinglutely. Not only the galaxy is really big, you can easily outrun NPC and players if properly fitted or knowing one or two tricks. Thats more helpful while trading. Exploring? even easier, as you will be by yourself 99.99% of the time.

Come to the ED Galaxy...join us...we have cookies!
 

adoredtv

adoredtv
I had an interesting stealth Vulture build going but the mechanics make it pretty hard to be viable. The biggest issues are cracked canopy and thruster damage (at least vs NPC's who I guess target subsystems with weapons). Otherwise though I was able to fly around in a high intensity warzone without any shields for about 30 minutes before the thrusters started to go offline.

It could be a laugh vs another player though.
 
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