Is the on-foot shooting bad?

[Toothsaw]

I admit I'm not very competent in first person shooters and the best answer to my question is "git gud", but I always managed to somehow "survive" various FPS games I played in my life. Why is it so hard to shoot down NPCs in settlements in this game? Are my skill worse than ever or is the shooting part of Odyssey just bad? Enemies get alerted for nothing, they gank on you in groups of 5-6, they all have shields and trained sharpshooters, as if 90% of the population of any settlement was comprised of trained soldiers: with 5-6 shots I'm practically shieldless and almost dead, while it takes me 2 rounds of plasma shots to hit a single target enough times to kill it.
And this is with mouse & keyboard controls: attempting a settlement mission with a joypad feels like suicide.
Also I really can't understand how stealth missions can be done: I was raised a fine and then all base went crazy just by HOLSTERING the profile cloning tool at a distance far enough that I couldn't clone anyone but apparently they could see me pretty well from, hiding behind the corner of some crates, hoding a small tool in my hand -_-

I get the simulation aspect of the whole game, but with no real cover/steath mechanics in the FPS engine, you can't expect the realism coming from simply dying after 4-5 laser shots; stealth games simplify the AI otherwise they would be pretty frustrating to play if every time the enemy would be alerted, dozens of guards would come out searching for you in every corner of the base. I get this is more realistic than a guy staring at the dead body of his companion doing nothing, but this makes most mission impossible to do.

 

[Archonsod]

Part of the problem is the AI gets the benefit of upgraded/engineered gear, which turns them into bullet sponges. They're not good at dealing with elevation though, and if you have an SRV you can always GTA them down. It's quite survivable if you can either find decent cover or get to the roof though (in fact I tend to have more problems with ammo than taking on the enemy for the most part). Best advice there is to try signing on with Frontline for some CZ missions. You don't lose anything if you die or fail the mission, the pay is good relative to other ground missions and you can get used to the AI's quirks when fighting.

The stealth sucks largely because the stealth mechanics are near non-existent. AI awareness is inconsistent - sometimes they know precisely where you are from half the base away, sometimes they'll fail to find you because a knee high crate is between you. It's not helped by the fact that as soon as you have a bounty, whether it's a 100Cr parking fine or a 300 mil Cr criminal record, the entire settlement (including the civilians) turn into Judge Dredd. Though even there it can be quirky - walk up to the guy you're supposed to assassinate and shotgun him to the face and nobody bats an eyelid, unless of course you're trespassing while doing so.

 

[Toothsaw]

So you're basically confirming that not only the execution of the FPS section is flawed, but the design too has issues... Great!

 

[zombieapocalypse]

It's not helped by the fact that as soon as you have a bounty, whether it's a 100Cr parking fine or a 300 mil Cr criminal record, the entire settlement (including the civilians) turn into Judge Dredd. Though even there it can be quirky - walk up to the guy you're supposed to assassinate and shotgun him to the face and nobody bats an eyelid, unless of course you're trespassing while doing so.

The on-ground C&P is very wonky at present. I've found that even if you're in an empty settlement and use your SRV to take out hostile wanted scavengers, you get a fine (and become wanted) for violating the no-fire zone. This means that when you turn the power back on, the settlement defences will attack you! Yet it's safe to shoot the scavengers with your hand weapons - it makes no sense!

 

[ferus]

I have very little issues with the actual shooting. Gunplay is quite good in my opinion.
It's that everything else that involves shooting is bad

 

[zombieapocalypse]

I also feel that NPCs go hostile too quickly on you. You should be given multiple warning or maybe even asked to leave the building or settlement (a bit like in the Hitman games). But as @Archonsod said above, the entire settlement goes Judge Dredd on you first for the slightest thing, such as walking past a guard if you don't realise that they're wanting to scan you.

 

[Miller-UK]

Yeah, I've been caught out by killing the Scavs from the air then the base attacks me when I power up the reactor.
If the base is offline how does it know I have fired my weapons?

Kinda' screwy.

 

[Sighman]

NPCs have levels, just like the ships you encounter in space.

If you take on an Elite (system authority) Viper Mk III in your sidewinder, you're dead. Take on twelve at once and most ships wouldn't survive.

The commandos have rank badges. Point your cursor at them (NOT a weapon). Wait for the 'scanning' to go away. If you see four chevrons and several stars underneath, you are woefully outmatched. If you see one chevron, you might make it against one or two of them. Two chevrons is probably pushing it unless you're wearing a dominator with upgrades to that and weapons.

If you want to fight NPCs on foot, use cover, duck down when your shields are offline, position yourself so that when firing at one NPC you cannot be targeted by others. Use the roofs. Duck when reloading. Duck while they're firing, and bob up to shoot when THEY'RE reloading.

It's simple enough if you get the basics right, but firing away at one target while four others can hit you, not hiding while your shields are down, not sprinting or jumping away when you get the grenade warning, not using med packs... you won't make it.

 

[GloatingSwine]

The shooting is fine.

The moving is awkward. Despite being in 0.1g you move like you're wading through soup and are less athletic in the game than in real life.

 

[Murfelton]

If you get surrounded by 5-6 shielded enemies, you tend to die. So, the trick is to avoid getting surrounded. Stay on roofs, and make sure you have a line of retreat. They give up once they’ve lost sight of you, leaving you free to strike again.

The NPCs follow rules of behaviour, and you need to respect those rules.

 

[mbr1337]

Major issue imho is access to 2+ grade suits and weapons + mods. In the tutorial I bet you were quite pumped up because in the real game it takes much more to take them down and your shields are unexistent compared to those in the tutorial.

I've been visiting a lot of station and still couldn't find one who dropped a decent upgraded suit or weapon. On the other hand to collect materials for upgrades is crazy hard, especially graphene and others.

Edit: On the other hand I think the combat is overall good. There ain't much to innovate in FPS anyway but still feels like it's going to improve more in the future. Also most of us still have to actually discover all the features, mods etc. So it's a bit early to judge.

 

[Sighman]

I found G2 and 3 suits and equipment on day one, and several times since. Mostly smaller stations and ground ports, not the big starports.

 

[Intrepid3D]

I admit I'm not very competent in first person shooters and the best answer to my question is "git gud", but I always managed to somehow "survive" various FPS games I played in my life. Why is it so hard to shoot down NPCs in settlements in this game? Are my skill worse than ever or is the shooting part of Odyssey just bad? Enemies get alerted for nothing, they gank on you in groups of 5-6, they all have shields and trained sharpshooters, as if 90% of the population of any settlement was comprised of trained soldiers: with 5-6 shots I'm practically shieldless and almost dead, while it takes me 2 rounds of plasma shots to hit a single target enough times to kill it.
And this is with mouse & keyboard controls: attempting a settlement mission with a joypad feels like suicide.
Also I really can't understand how stealth missions can be done: I was raised a fine and then all base went crazy just by HOLSTERING the profile cloning tool at a distance far enough that I couldn't clone anyone but apparently they could see me pretty well from, hiding behind the corner of some crates, hoding a small tool in my hand -_-

I get the simulation aspect of the whole game, but with no real cover/steath mechanics in the FPS engine, you can't expect the realism coming from simply dying after 4-5 laser shots; stealth games simplify the AI otherwise they would be pretty frustrating to play if every time the enemy would be alerted, dozens of guards would come out searching for you in every corner of the base. I get this is more realistic than a guy staring at the dead body of his companion doing nothing, but this makes most mission impossible to do.

I have taken to using the SRV for all ground mission that involve killing NPC's, there is no other way to do it and even with the SRV its not easy.

I don't know who did the balancing for this, but 6+ NPC's with shields far stronger than yours, that take 2+ mags to take down and all of them rush or "gank" you at once.... its as if its deliberately designed to frustrate you for being impossible.

Use the SRV, F this S don't play them at their own game.

 

[Shintai]

Hit and run. You need to learn you are not a super hero like in most other shooters.

 

[Jup]

It's more tactical and slower on purpose and definetly should not be compared with CoD, Overwatch or Doom.
It's not perfect, but not really bad either.

You most likely will get owned with your starting G1 gear though.

 

[Murfelton]

I have taken to using the SRV for all ground mission that involve killing NPC's, there is no other way to do it and even with the SRV its not easy.

I don't know who did the balancing for this, but 6+ NPC's with shields far stronger than yours, that take 2+ mags to take down and all of the rush or "gank" you at once.... its as if its deliberately designed to frustrate you for being impossible.

Use the SRV, F this S don't play them at their own game.

I do unpowered base missions. Use a one-shot kill weapon - rocket launcher or sniper rifle. Find an isolated enemy with shields down. Pick them off, retreat.

Once the rest give up on finding you, they go back to their patrol routes, and power down shields. Repeat process. It’s slow, but not impossible.

The SRV contacts panel tells you how many are left.

 

[Ethaidan]

Actually, the shooting part isn't too bad once you get used to how the weapons work. Here's a few bits to consider.

1. Stealth needs to be learned and earned at a steeper curve than many other games.

• Do proper Recon on any base you are not familiar with, there are patterns.
• Rooftops are your friend. You can also vent atmosphere from some of them.
• If you are going to be accessing one building, or expect trouble when accessing a particular building, park your SRV close to one of the rear entrances (if there is one).

2. There is a red circle on your radar, keep enemies out of it if possible.

3. Sound alerts enemies, so stop stomping around (walk, crouch, take the long route), and consider unlocking the different stealth engineering upgrades.

4. Station terminals. Use them. You can see the security rating the combat level of each settlement personal. You can also tag anyone of interest - high security clearance for cloning, high combat rank for first strike or avoidance, etc.

Finally, if you are struggling, don't start with missions. Those force you into specific actions. Find a nice planet - pretty much all the Odyssey landfall planets have settlements, irregular markers, crash sites, etc. Choose one and practice the on-foot play until you have a bit of experience. Stop taking your stock sidewinder and trying to do bounty hunting missions!

 

[ZeeWolf]

I practice at the POI crash sites that have NPCs figure out how the different weapons work and stay close to your ship. Pick off one NPC and go back to thip to rearm etc.

You can find abandoned settlements if you look for the missions to power them up. Great for practice. Be careful as they do drop in NPCs eventually and will often contain scavengers but when you do find one it's really useful to learn the mechanics.

Use the jet-pack to hop around the roof tops. Don't stay in one place too long but stay high.

The mechanics are based on the ship combat so understanding shields up vs shields down is important.

Personally I find the missions the most fun element of the DLC, the gunplay is interesting if not amazing. It generally leads to something interesting especially if you randomly come across other players, for whatever reason on-foot is a bit more friendly than in-space and I'd argue the settlements can be the real social hubs.

 

[lysan]

The shooting is fine, all the mechanics like gun handling cover, TTK etc etc.
C&P is still weird, however the combat as an isolated mechanics is good.

 

[Linnunrata]

Do proper Recon on any base you are not familiar with, there are patterns.

As an old ARMA/Squad player, this was a given approach for me, but the game currently seems to lack a lot of tools like binocs (preferably with nightvision). Even the darn SRV has zero zoom, which is of course understandable as such feature wasn't really necessary before.