Ships Is the python less manouvreable in 1.3?

CMDR Derrida · Jun 11, 2015

This is not a complaint as I LOVE the game, but I was just wondering if anyone knows if the python has become a little more sluggish? When I bought a python first time around (mostly for trade) I found it easy enough to fix targets - although I was unmanoeuvrable I could still use FA off and short bursts of thrust in the lower revs to find my targets, including, say, players in vultures. I don't know if it's just that the NPC's are tougher in 1.3, but I bought my second python (A-class) a couple of days ago and have found it more difficult that I remember, and consequently use more turrets now. Anyone else experienced this?

Poseidal · Jun 11, 2015

Seems exactly the same to me.

CMDR Derrida · Jun 11, 2015

Poseidal said:
Seems exactly the same to me.

Nice to know, thanks!...probably just the fact I haven't used it for a while

Schattenbogen · Jun 11, 2015

With same vessel but about "A6 shields", I'm pretty surprised how fast a Sidewinder can take a "ring" down.
Feel like my old "D5 shield" on my Vulture had more resistance.

Poseidal · Jun 11, 2015

Schattenbogen said:
With same vessel but about "A6 shields", I'm pretty surprised how fast a Sidewinder can take a "ring" down.
Feel like my old "D5 shield" on my Vulture had more resistance.

Was that pre-patch? NPCs have gotten more accurate this patch, I think.

Schattenbogen · Jun 11, 2015

Yes, I compare pre-1.3 Vulture against actual Python.
Scanning for warrants are almost dangerous now ...

n13L5 · Jun 13, 2015

No matter how accurate, I don't imagine a Sidewinder should ever be able to take down a ring on a Python shield

Especially not the first one, since it seems the first ring by itself is worth more points than the following two rings together...

PhoenicianSon · Jun 13, 2015

CMDR Derrida said:
This is not a complaint as I LOVE the game, but I was just wondering if anyone knows if the python has become a little more sluggish? When I bought a python first time around (mostly for trade) I found it easy enough to fix targets - although I was unmanoeuvrable I could still use FA off and short bursts of thrust in the lower revs to find my targets, including, say, players in vultures. I don't know if it's just that the NPC's are tougher in 1.3, but I bought my second python (A-class) a couple of days ago and have found it more difficult that I remember, and consequently use more turrets now. Anyone else experienced this?

The NPCs are a lot more shrewd in their manuevering and flying and even the most harmless are much better at fighting. Before 1.3 they would sit in front of your view and allow you to essentially commit to target practice. Now, the NPCs have some moves from jousting to setting their pips from systems, engines to weapons. I noticed a Viper was shifting its pips while attacking it because it seemingly went from incredible manuerving and flying to tougher shields and less module malfunctions. Actually got over 60k in credits for taking him out, which I have never received for a Viper before this patch.

Basically, it isn't your ship, it is your strategy, you have to be more diversified in your attacks and flying when it comes to fighting NPCs, they have gotten a lot smarter and craftier. What I have noticed is that there seemingly is not much differentiation in great part to the various levels of the pilots. I have had mostly harmless guys outfly me more than Dangerous pilots in certain situations. I think the Developers needs to work on that a bit. However, it is the pilots that have gotten better with flying and controlling their ships, not our ships getting gimped by the update.

Schattenbogen · Jun 13, 2015

n13L5 said:
No matter how accurate, I don't imagine a Sidewinder should ever be able to take down a ring on a Python shield

When intercepted, time to have it front on me and trying to scan him for warrant, yep, the first ring is down. And knowing the kind of laser armament he can use, I'm really surprised.
Of course, things are different if I'm already in front of him.

Poseidal · Jun 13, 2015

Small hardpoints aren't that puny. A large is only 2.25 times the damage one small for a similar class of weapon, so two smalls (against shields at least) is about on par with a single large HP.

Schattenbogen · Jun 13, 2015

Thanks for info.

About OP question.
In shipyard, the Python is indicated as having a "6" manoeuvrability, which should be the same as an Asp or a Viper (http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=705,mpV5QG5QG,2-BkAA8c72BkAA8I,08c08c7Uw072mpV2Uc02M)
I don't have this feeling, so is this "6" right ?

Other thing I don't understand :
With same optimal thrust to weight ratio,
The Vulture has a base top speed of "215" and a maxima combat speed of "200" with 0 pip.
My Python has a base top speed of "234" and a maxima combat speed of "183" with 1 pip.
Why this difference ?

n13L5 · Jun 13, 2015

Schattenbogen said:
Thanks for info.

About OP question.
In shipyard, the Python is indicated as having a "6" manoeuvrability, which should be the same as an Asp or a Viper (http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=705,mpV5QG5QG,2-BkAA8c72BkAA8I,08c08c7Uw072mpV2Uc02M)
I don't have this feeling, so is this "6" right ?

Other thing I don't understand :
With same optimal thrust to weight ratio,
The Vulture has a base top speed of "215" and a maxima combat speed of "200" with 0 pip.
My Python has a base top speed of "234" and a maxima combat speed of "183" with 1 pip.
Why this difference ?

Python being much heavier may simply need more pips to reach the same percentage of top speed? Seems like a feeble explanation, but other than that, it would have to be a bug?

You could test both Python and Vulture speeds with 0,1,2,3,4 pips and plug that into excel. See if you get curves that make any sense...

At 4 pips, both must obviously reach top speed, unless you have a size smaller thrusters on one of them...

Schattenbogen · Jun 14, 2015

As I don't have a Vulture anymore, was not able to do strictly equivalent test, but

Ships : Vulture / Python
Mass : 369.6 / 711.7
Propulsion : 5E / 6A
Optima/Mass ratio : 1.52 / 2.0
Max declared speed : 215 / 234

0 pip : 194 / 162 (with a 5A; my Vulture was 210)
1 pip : 199/ 189
2 pip : 204 / 215
3 pip : 209 / 241
4 pip : 214 / 267

So, in order to no be slower than a 5E Vulture with 0 pip, I need 2 pips with 6A Python.
Was always surprised to see how fast the Vulture was with 0 pips.

If "6" is the size of manoeuvre propulsion, it's OK with your Explanation, "Frankfort".
If it is a arbitrary comparaison number, size does not matter and both spaceship should have comparable manoeuvrability.

faluc · Jun 15, 2015

Schattenbogen said:
Thanks for info.

About OP question.
In shipyard, the Python is indicated as having a "6" manoeuvrability, which should be the same as an Asp or a Viper (http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=705,mpV5QG5QG,2-BkAA8c72BkAA8I,08c08c7Uw072mpV2Uc02M)
I don't have this feeling, so is this "6" right ?

Other thing I don't understand :
With same optimal thrust to weight ratio,
The Vulture has a base top speed of "215" and a maxima combat speed of "200" with 0 pip.
My Python has a base top speed of "234" and a maxima combat speed of "183" with 1 pip.
Why this difference ?

Combat ships have different "pips vs speed" profile compared to multipurpose ships.
The speed of combat ships is less influenced by pips in ENG, there is not that big difference between 0 and 4 pips like you have for multipurpose ships. This is kind of a hidden advantage of combat ships.

Schattenbogen · Jun 16, 2015

faluc said:
Combat ships have different "pips vs speed" profile compared to multipurpose ships.
The speed of combat ships is less influenced by pips in ENG, there is not that big difference between 0 and 4 pips like you have for multipurpose ships. This is kind of a hidden advantage of combat ships.

So actual ships speed value should be corrected, cause two values are interesting most peoples :
How fast do I fly in combat (0 pips) and how fast can I flee (4 pips).