I think some things got broken in the last patch. Things transferred out of carriers doesn't work anymore either. Hopefully they fix this with the next patch.
Hmmm I guess that was intended.
Maybe it's part of the work to re-enable the merit sources that have been disabled for over 3 months now. But for it to happen with zero mention in the patch notes/announcements is very weird.
Rare goods for example wouldn't be that OP if you can't fill up a carrier with them.
Bit late to the party, but I am wondering too.
I am mining in a power stronghold in boom right now, and did a little test. I had mined 64 units of Grandiderite, and 30 units of Void Opals. I was well below the bulk tax threshold, so I got full payout for them. What I did is sell them in batches of ten to see the influence on merits.
So for six batches of ten units Grandiderite I got the same credits and merits; 475255 credits per tonne and 357.2 merits per tonne or 0.752 merits per 1000 Cr. For the last sale of four units, I got the same pay, but only 178 merits per tonne or 0.374 merits per 1000 Cr. At this point I thought I ran into some kind of limit, but I didn't.
By the way, looking at my spreadsheet, 0.75 merits per 1000 Cr. is the maximum I ever got selling mined goods, while the merits per tonne fluctuate wildly (between 50 and 550 merits/t) even with the same merits per credit rate. Weird already.
I then sold my 30 Void Opals again in batches of ten, and got 479838 credits per tonne for all three batches. However, for the first two I got again 0.752 merits per 1000 Cr., but this time only 360.8 merits per tonne.
And then, for the very last batch of ten Void Opals I only got... a tenth of that. 0.075 merits/1000 Cr. or 36 merits per tonne. At that point I had sold 84 units of minerals, with 80 of them at full profit and at the maximum merit rate I got so far, but with that dip for the 4 Grandiderite in between. Paging @Ian Doncaster to make sense of it
.
Anyone can make sense of that, especially the last bit? Here's the data I collected for your convenience:
I am mining in a power stronghold in boom right now, and did a little test. I had mined 64 units of Grandiderite, and 30 units of Void Opals. I was well below the bulk tax threshold, so I got full payout for them. What I did is sell them in batches of ten to see the influence on merits.
So for six batches of ten units Grandiderite I got the same credits and merits; 475255 credits per tonne and 357.2 merits per tonne or 0.752 merits per 1000 Cr. For the last sale of four units, I got the same pay, but only 178 merits per tonne or 0.374 merits per 1000 Cr. At this point I thought I ran into some kind of limit, but I didn't.
By the way, looking at my spreadsheet, 0.75 merits per 1000 Cr. is the maximum I ever got selling mined goods, while the merits per tonne fluctuate wildly (between 50 and 550 merits/t) even with the same merits per credit rate. Weird already.
I then sold my 30 Void Opals again in batches of ten, and got 479838 credits per tonne for all three batches. However, for the first two I got again 0.752 merits per 1000 Cr., but this time only 360.8 merits per tonne.
And then, for the very last batch of ten Void Opals I only got... a tenth of that. 0.075 merits/1000 Cr. or 36 merits per tonne. At that point I had sold 84 units of minerals, with 80 of them at full profit and at the maximum merit rate I got so far, but with that dip for the 4 Grandiderite in between. Paging @Ian Doncaster to make sense of it
.Anyone can make sense of that, especially the last bit? Here's the data I collected for your convenience:
Mineral | Amount [t] | Profit [Cr.] | Profit [Cr./t] | Merits | Merits/t | Merits / 1000 Cr. |
Grandiderite | 10 | 4752550 | 475255 | 3572 | 357,2 | 0,75159651134654 |
Grandiderite | 10 | 4752550 | 475255 | 3572 | 357,2 | 0,75159651134654 |
Grandiderite | 10 | 4752550 | 475255 | 3572 | 357,2 | 0,75159651134654 |
Grandiderite | 10 | 4752550 | 475255 | 3572 | 357,2 | 0,75159651134654 |
Grandiderite | 10 | 4752550 | 475255 | 3572 | 357,2 | 0,75159651134654 |
Grandiderite | 10 | 4752550 | 475255 | 3572 | 357,2 | 0,75159651134654 |
Grandiderite | 4 | 1901020 | 475255 | 712 | 178 | 0,374535775531031 |
Void Opal | 10 | 4798380 | 479838 | 3608 | 360,8 | 0,751920439815104 |
Void Opal | 10 | 4798380 | 479838 | 3608 | 360,8 | 0,751920439815104 |
Void Opal | 10 | 4798380 | 479838 | 360 | 36 | 0,075025321045853 |
Last edited:
I have another data set for this. This time around, I mined 94t of Grandiderite. I again sold them in batches of ten. I got 3460 merits or 346 merits per tonne / 0.752 merits per 1000 Cr. for the first eight batches.
For the ninth barch I only got 2420 merits, so 242 merits per tonne / 0.526 merits per 1000 Cr., and for the final four units I got nothing.
Playing around with the numbers of the ninth batch would suggest that I got the maximum merit rates for 87 units of Grandiderite, and then nothing; 7*346=2422, I'd assume the mismatch of two merits is a rounding error, as 2420 divided by 346 is 6.994.
Doing the above calculations for my first attempt suggest I might have gotten full merits for 83 units of minerals spread over two minerals, and none for the remaining 11. It would also mean I hit a "soft" limit for the first mineral at 62 units: 62*357,2=22146.2, and I got 22146 merits - again, I think there's a rounding error involved. I got again full merit rates for 31 units of the second mineral, and nothing for the remaining nine, leaving me with 2+9 units that I got no merits for.
What does it all mean? I have no clue. Looks to me that there is an individual limit per mineral as well as a total limit? This is very confusing. The next useful experiment might be to spread the 96t cargo of my core miner over a multitude of minerals and see if there is, again, a total limit somewhere in the 80s. I might also dive deeper into the data I collected since I started mining for power play to see if I can confirm that pattern.
Here's the data of my second run:
For the ninth barch I only got 2420 merits, so 242 merits per tonne / 0.526 merits per 1000 Cr., and for the final four units I got nothing.
Playing around with the numbers of the ninth batch would suggest that I got the maximum merit rates for 87 units of Grandiderite, and then nothing; 7*346=2422, I'd assume the mismatch of two merits is a rounding error, as 2420 divided by 346 is 6.994.
Doing the above calculations for my first attempt suggest I might have gotten full merits for 83 units of minerals spread over two minerals, and none for the remaining 11. It would also mean I hit a "soft" limit for the first mineral at 62 units: 62*357,2=22146.2, and I got 22146 merits - again, I think there's a rounding error involved. I got again full merit rates for 31 units of the second mineral, and nothing for the remaining nine, leaving me with 2+9 units that I got no merits for.
What does it all mean? I have no clue. Looks to me that there is an individual limit per mineral as well as a total limit? This is very confusing. The next useful experiment might be to spread the 96t cargo of my core miner over a multitude of minerals and see if there is, again, a total limit somewhere in the 80s. I might also dive deeper into the data I collected since I started mining for power play to see if I can confirm that pattern.
Here's the data of my second run:
Mineral | Amount [t] | Profit [Cr.] | Profit [Cr./t] | Merits | Merits/t | Merits/1000 Cr. |
Grandiderite | 10 | 4603910 | 460391 | 3460 | 346 | 0,751535108201507 |
Grandiderite | 10 | 4603910 | 460391 | 3460 | 346 | 0,751535108201507 |
Grandiderite | 10 | 4603910 | 460391 | 3460 | 346 | 0,751535108201507 |
Grandiderite | 10 | 4603910 | 460391 | 3460 | 346 | 0,751535108201507 |
Grandiderite | 10 | 4603910 | 460391 | 3460 | 346 | 0,751535108201507 |
Grandiderite | 10 | 4603910 | 460391 | 3460 | 346 | 0,751535108201507 |
Grandiderite | 10 | 4603910 | 460391 | 3460 | 346 | 0,751535108201507 |
Grandiderite | 10 | 4603910 | 460391 | 3460 | 346 | 0,751535108201507 |
Grandiderite | 10 | 4603910 | 460391 | 2420 | 242 | 0,525640162383713 |
Grandiderite | 4 | 1841564 | 460391 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
Oh and there were no minerals sold that were refined after I arrived at the station - I made sure to arrive with an empty refinery both times.
Okay, I don't want to make this my TED talk, but I did some more spreadsheetin' .
From the data I gathered my current working theory is that there is a fixed merit rate of roughly 0.75 merits per 1000 Credits of profit. Based on that rate, the profit I made and the merits I earned in each transaction I calculated the unit limit for each transaction. It's no big surprise that the control calculation also works perfectly, i.e. calculating the total merits from that 0.75, the profit and the assumed unit limit gives exactly the number of merits I earned per transaction.
The thing is... that limit isn't constant. For example, I recorded transactions of selling Alexandrite in four seperate sessions. I think thw first two sessions were back to back on the same day, but I didn't record the dates, sorry. In any case, the first two were at the same station with the system both times in boom.
But anyway, in the first session I got merits for 62 units when selling 73 units, and in the second session the limit was 74 when selling 85 units. In a third session in a different system (probably also another day) I got merits for 36 units out of 42 sold. And then in the fourth session, I got merits for 17 out of 23 units.
Another example: I sold Void Opals again in two sessions, same station, same state. First session I got merits for 15 out of 15 units after selling 84 units of other minerals. Second session: 22 out of 33, and that was the session where I sold the 85 units of Alexandrite first.
And then, as written above, today I got merits for 62 out of 64 units of Grandiderite in the first and 87 out of 94 in the second session.
If my assumption of a fixed merit rate of 0.75 merits per 1000 Cr. is correct (which my calculations suggest), then the limit of units you can sell at that rate is... fluid. Maybe the game looks at how much or what else you have in your cargo hold? I have no clue.
I will attach the spreadsheet I used. It contains the transactions I recorded in chronological order, the empty rows are session breaks. Maybe one of you can make a bit more sense of it.
. From the data I gathered my current working theory is that there is a fixed merit rate of roughly 0.75 merits per 1000 Credits of profit. Based on that rate, the profit I made and the merits I earned in each transaction I calculated the unit limit for each transaction. It's no big surprise that the control calculation also works perfectly, i.e. calculating the total merits from that 0.75, the profit and the assumed unit limit gives exactly the number of merits I earned per transaction.
The thing is... that limit isn't constant. For example, I recorded transactions of selling Alexandrite in four seperate sessions. I think thw first two sessions were back to back on the same day, but I didn't record the dates, sorry. In any case, the first two were at the same station with the system both times in boom.
But anyway, in the first session I got merits for 62 units when selling 73 units, and in the second session the limit was 74 when selling 85 units. In a third session in a different system (probably also another day) I got merits for 36 units out of 42 sold. And then in the fourth session, I got merits for 17 out of 23 units.
Another example: I sold Void Opals again in two sessions, same station, same state. First session I got merits for 15 out of 15 units after selling 84 units of other minerals. Second session: 22 out of 33, and that was the session where I sold the 85 units of Alexandrite first.
And then, as written above, today I got merits for 62 out of 64 units of Grandiderite in the first and 87 out of 94 in the second session.
If my assumption of a fixed merit rate of 0.75 merits per 1000 Cr. is correct (which my calculations suggest), then the limit of units you can sell at that rate is... fluid. Maybe the game looks at how much or what else you have in your cargo hold? I have no clue.
I will attach the spreadsheet I used. It contains the transactions I recorded in chronological order, the empty rows are session breaks. Maybe one of you can make a bit more sense of it.
I'll join your ted talk, since i opened this topic it's bad manners otherwise.
I'm not getting into the details of merits per credit. I think the daily cap is more important, and how you sell them (in batches or all at once) doesn't matter that much. I also thought that "minerals sold that were refined after I arrived at the station" matters but it doesn't, of course you will get no merits on minerals refined at the station if you are over the daily cap (tons).
So i mined my way to PP 100+, with some weekly tasks between mining sessions. Usually a 2 hour or less per day mining session, a core mining Python with a cargo of 254 tons.
I noticed there's a cap of about 90 tons of one single mined commodity per ~day. First i mined 254 tons of mineral 1 and after about 90 tons sold i didn't get any merits for the rest, not even the next day (on a different mining session). So mining one single commodity is a waste of time.
The best strategy (for core mining) is mine whatever mineral you find and fill your cargo hold fast, you find multiple types of minerals in one hotspot. So at the end of a core mining sessions i had
~90 tons of mineral 1 (hotspot)
~50 tons of mineral 2
~40 tons of mineral 3
~40 tons of mineral 4
~30 tons of mineral 5
After this mining session you won't get any merits for mineral 1 for about 1 day, so if you wanna do another session you need to target the rest (mineral 2-5) up to the ~90 tons daily cap so just skip the asteroids of mineral 1, change the hotspot (and/or system for better pricing) to another mineral.
The way you sell them (in batches or all at once) doesn't matter that much, you get full merits for the first ~90 tons and nothing after that. So if you sell 200 tons of mineral 1, you will get merits for ~90 tons and nothing after that (refined at the station or not).
The only thing i'm not sure about is the duration of the limit cap, if it's 1 day or lower, since i didn't have time to test it extensively. What was the time between your Grandidierite sessions?
Merits per ton is pretty easily, the more expensive the more merits you get. Check the station prices per said minerals (mineral 1-5) and target accordingly. Usually more crowded system, cheaper the selling price. So let's say you can get from ~350k credits to ~700k per same mineral (ton) in different systems, selling in a system with 700k per unit will double your merits. It's all about finding the right system and the right mining spot.
Took me about 1 and a half weeks to get to PP 100+, i even made it to Top 10 in the second week, which is pretty good for casual play.
If i have had more gaming time per day i would have made way more merits, you can cycle powerplay activities to get them.
Like 2 hours mining, next trading, next some weekly tasks, next salvage (i saw black boxes and wreckage components give good merits) and other PP activities.
Btw i think trading has also a ton limit (a few hundred tons), is what i saw from the limited powerplay trading i did.
I did my merits with core mining since i enjoy it a lot, i think is one of the best implemented features of the game. I won't get into details of ship planning or core mining strategies since you all probably have your own.
I'm not getting into the details of merits per credit. I think the daily cap is more important, and how you sell them (in batches or all at once) doesn't matter that much. I also thought that "minerals sold that were refined after I arrived at the station" matters but it doesn't, of course you will get no merits on minerals refined at the station if you are over the daily cap (tons).
So i mined my way to PP 100+, with some weekly tasks between mining sessions. Usually a 2 hour or less per day mining session, a core mining Python with a cargo of 254 tons.
I noticed there's a cap of about 90 tons of one single mined commodity per ~day. First i mined 254 tons of mineral 1 and after about 90 tons sold i didn't get any merits for the rest, not even the next day (on a different mining session). So mining one single commodity is a waste of time.
The best strategy (for core mining) is mine whatever mineral you find and fill your cargo hold fast, you find multiple types of minerals in one hotspot. So at the end of a core mining sessions i had
~90 tons of mineral 1 (hotspot)
~50 tons of mineral 2
~40 tons of mineral 3
~40 tons of mineral 4
~30 tons of mineral 5
After this mining session you won't get any merits for mineral 1 for about 1 day, so if you wanna do another session you need to target the rest (mineral 2-5) up to the ~90 tons daily cap so just skip the asteroids of mineral 1, change the hotspot (and/or system for better pricing) to another mineral.
The way you sell them (in batches or all at once) doesn't matter that much, you get full merits for the first ~90 tons and nothing after that. So if you sell 200 tons of mineral 1, you will get merits for ~90 tons and nothing after that (refined at the station or not).
The only thing i'm not sure about is the duration of the limit cap, if it's 1 day or lower, since i didn't have time to test it extensively. What was the time between your Grandidierite sessions?
Merits per ton is pretty easily, the more expensive the more merits you get. Check the station prices per said minerals (mineral 1-5) and target accordingly. Usually more crowded system, cheaper the selling price. So let's say you can get from ~350k credits to ~700k per same mineral (ton) in different systems, selling in a system with 700k per unit will double your merits. It's all about finding the right system and the right mining spot.
Took me about 1 and a half weeks to get to PP 100+, i even made it to Top 10 in the second week, which is pretty good for casual play.
If i have had more gaming time per day i would have made way more merits, you can cycle powerplay activities to get them.
Like 2 hours mining, next trading, next some weekly tasks, next salvage (i saw black boxes and wreckage components give good merits) and other PP activities.
Btw i think trading has also a ton limit (a few hundred tons), is what i saw from the limited powerplay trading i did.
I did my merits with core mining since i enjoy it a lot, i think is one of the best implemented features of the game. I won't get into details of ship planning or core mining strategies since you all probably have your own.
Thanks
I have yet to run into a hard daily cap. I probably don't play enough per day to reach that, if it exists. The limit I ran into above seems to be more like a limit per hour, sales session or tick or something.
To be clear, I sold in multiple small batches to find out why my merits per credit rate was fluctuating so much.
You don't get merits for them even when you're not hit by some sort of cap. You don't get merits for cleaning out your refinery at the station, period.
I don't think this is correct. In my above testing, I sold a total 178t of Grandiderite over three back to back mining sessions. I ran into an individual transaction limit in the second and third session though.
I don't keep enough details about what I mine when, my notes are just about the transactions themselves. Anecdotically I have sold way more of 90 units of a single mineral on consecutive days.
This is true within limits. Frankly, when I go core mining I usually have the Inara page of the market I plan to sell at open, sorted by price. I mine every mineral with a certain value. As merit gain is driven by the profit you make, I tend to skip, say, Bromellite, because at a quarter of the price of Grandiderite or Void Opals, it's just not worth it. But yeah, it is definitely best to spread out over multiple minerals.
Again, not sure about that. There must be more at play behind the scenes. What capacity does your miner have? I mine in a 96t Mandalay, and filling it up takes me about an hour to 80 minutes (docking to docking). Maybe you can "overload" your sales when selliing too much in too short a time? Again: I've sold over 140t of Grandiderite over the course of about three hours for full merit gain.
Look at my data again. I ran into a sales limit after selling 21 Void Opals, and that was after selling 64 units of Grandiderite and running into a limit with that, but the first sale of Void Opals after being limited for Grandiderite gave me the full merit rate.
So it's not merit per ton. It's merits per profit
.Oh I forgot: Which power? I mined for Kaine. Maybe that matters, too.
Well i guess each with their own experience.
I stop getting merits on let's say monazite after about 100 tons, despite the station having thousands of tons in demand. It doesn't matter what system i mine from.
For monazite and musgravite there's definitely a hard cap, for the other core minerals i can't say for sure since i had lower than 90 but i suppose it is the same.
Merits per trade might be fluctuating because as you and other players sell, the station demand and price decreases, the price decreases the merits do also.
I'm not sure why you ran into said cap after 21 Void Opals. I suppose the station had sufficient demand?
I suppose "beware of the bulk sales tax for mined commodities in stations with a low demand (marked red). You may get a much lower price if your cargo exceeds 25% of the demand" is common knowledge.
My Phyton's cargo is 254. It happened to me that until i got my cargo full of monazite the price at the station changed. We are not the only ones mining in those systems.
I did a few times with 254 monazite and i never got merits for all of them, not even half of my cargo, in different systems and on different stations with enough demand. It took way longer and then i changed my strategy. Definitely the best strategy for me was mine all core minerals i got, it's way faster than just do 1 or 2.
Just try it, mine about 150t of any mineral in one session, even grandidierite, and sell it, let me know if you got merits for all of it (but i suppose you need a different ship/build).
Maybe since your Mandalay has 96t of cargo you didn't notice selling bulk way more than 96t.
Maybe there's a ton cap per one session of mining. Maybe theres a shorter cap limit than 1 day. Maybe there's a cap for each mineral (your void opals) but i doubt.
Yes, it is not merits per ton, it's merits per credit but there's cap limit per mineral/ton.
More testing needs to be done.
My power is Antal but i don't think that matters.
I stop getting merits on let's say monazite after about 100 tons, despite the station having thousands of tons in demand. It doesn't matter what system i mine from.
For monazite and musgravite there's definitely a hard cap, for the other core minerals i can't say for sure since i had lower than 90 but i suppose it is the same.
Merits per trade might be fluctuating because as you and other players sell, the station demand and price decreases, the price decreases the merits do also.
I'm not sure why you ran into said cap after 21 Void Opals. I suppose the station had sufficient demand?
I suppose "beware of the bulk sales tax for mined commodities in stations with a low demand (marked red). You may get a much lower price if your cargo exceeds 25% of the demand" is common knowledge.
My Phyton's cargo is 254. It happened to me that until i got my cargo full of monazite the price at the station changed. We are not the only ones mining in those systems.
I did a few times with 254 monazite and i never got merits for all of them, not even half of my cargo, in different systems and on different stations with enough demand. It took way longer and then i changed my strategy. Definitely the best strategy for me was mine all core minerals i got, it's way faster than just do 1 or 2.
Just try it, mine about 150t of any mineral in one session, even grandidierite, and sell it, let me know if you got merits for all of it (but i suppose you need a different ship/build).
Maybe since your Mandalay has 96t of cargo you didn't notice selling bulk way more than 96t.
Maybe there's a ton cap per one session of mining. Maybe theres a shorter cap limit than 1 day. Maybe there's a cap for each mineral (your void opals) but i doubt.
Yes, it is not merits per ton, it's merits per credit but there's cap limit per mineral/ton.
More testing needs to be done.
My power is Antal but i don't think that matters.
I'm not going to. For one, as you said, I'd need to build a ship for that, which I am not going to, and moreover, I don't have the patience for a single 150t session. I can do three smaller sessions in a row, but anything larger, I am out. That's why I mine in relatively small ships.
That's what I meant. Your theory of a daily cap of 90t didn't fit my experiences. Looks a bit like there is a bulk tax on merits.
Agreed, more testing is good. My data suggest that this figure of 0.75 merits per 1000 Cr. is the upper limit though.
I think it might.
I guess your strategy works best for smaller ships up to 100t cargo, mine for bigger ones.
Mining multiple minerals in one session in a bigger ship allows me to avoid the bulk cap limit per ton/session.
Also depending on the luck and proficiency, filling a 250t cargo of all minerals might not take much longer than filling a 100t cargo of just 1 or 2 minerals.
I don't really like the Phyton, yaw sucks, but i guess it's a good miner.
Mining multiple minerals in one session in a bigger ship allows me to avoid the bulk cap limit per ton/session.
Also depending on the luck and proficiency, filling a 250t cargo of all minerals might not take much longer than filling a 100t cargo of just 1 or 2 minerals.
I don't really like the Phyton, yaw sucks, but i guess it's a good miner.