Horizons Is this supposed to be better than before? Because it's not.

[Ophion]

So... I see a mission offered by Pilots Federation for good money, thought what the hell, I'll try and it sure won't be easy.
Here's the mission:

[target sign] EXPANSION SUPPORT BY KILLING TERRORIST LEADER: TONY WHITFIELD

• We need you to assassinate one of the Terrorist Leader, Tony WhitfIeld from Allied Fong      Front.
• Interact with the Comms Array datalink at Due Keep+++ to find your target's location.
• Collect your reward from me at Jameson Memorial.
• Good luck CMDR Ophion.

Rewards: 2,116,548.CR + Heat Vanes (1)

Now, a fiew things:

- No mention of needing a SRV for this.
I've never played this type of missions so I can't know this. I went back and bought a SRV.

- No indication that this mission is illegal.
Let me explain: The Pilot Federation who supposed to be good guys want me to kill a TERRORIST LEADER who supposed to be a bad guy. And I am a good guy, I commit no crimes in game, hate having bounty on my head. In order to do that, I must scan something inside a settlement belonging to Nuenets Corp. (Federation) and friendly to me. There I find 3 green ships, two master Vipers and one deadly FAS.
First I tried to fly over to see what's going on, got tresspass warning and a fine.
Than I went back in SRV and got a bounty, was destroyed in about 4 seconds after that.
Than I trieed to fire at a generator with SRV to disable the turrets, I was destroyed in 5 seconds, gaind another bounty.
My final attempt was to shoot and fire missiles at defence turrets that can't be targeted like before, I fired a missile in general direction, everyone and everything became hostile and I managed to escape witn 22% hull, gained another bounty.

- Now I am a criminal. Thank you very much Pilots Federation.

I need some help. Apparently I'm stupid because I can't understand this logic.
Everything would be fine if the settlement belongs to Allied Fong      Front but it doesn't. My friends, independent but respected galactic organisation sent me to attack and start a war with some guys who are also my friends so I can geather information on a location of a criminal and kill him. So to do this job, I have to become a ciminal myself?

Imagine you whitness a murder and the police shoot you in the leg to make you tell them where the murderer is, and then kill you.

Does that makes any sense to you?

 

[Minoo Minou]

The Pilot's Federation isn't supposed to be the "good guys".

 

[Tinman]

You are sent to take out a terrorist, but I bet that the terrorist and the people who is protecting him/her doesn't see it the same way.

In their eyes you are the evil terrorist who is trying to kill their freedom fighter...so to them you are a criminal.

I would argue that you taking on a assassination mission made you a criminal right from the start.

 

[Minoo Minou]

You are sent to take out a terrorist, but I bet that the terrorist and the people who is protecting him/her doesn't see it the same way.

In their eyes you are the evil terrorist who is trying to kill their freedom fighter...so to them you are a criminal.

I would argue that you taking on a assassination mission made you a criminal right from the start.

Exactly my thoughts afterwards... Assassination (even a terrorist)= Murder.

 

[Ophion]

The Pilot's Federation isn't supposed to be the "good guys".

Maybe you don't remember this but before, if you had a fine or a bounty, to clear it you had to pay the Pilot Federation. This was changed because it was too easy to commit crime and get away with it. I don't think they should give a mission like this one.

This mission is more suited for some criminal organisation:
- We want you to kill some poor schmuck.
- Go to his friends and find out where he is, than kill them all.
- Find him and kill him.

If this was the case, I would know I'm about to become wanted myself and wouldn't do it at all.

 

[dutchy2000]

Maybe you don't remember this but before, if you had a fine or a bounty, to clear it you had to pay the Pilot Federation. This was changed because it was too easy to commit crime and get away with it. I don't think they should give a mission like this one.

This mission is more suited for some criminal organisation:
- We want you to kill some poor schmuck.
- Go to his friends and find out where he is, than kill them all.
- Find him and kill him.

If this was the case, I would know I'm about to become wanted myself and wouldn't do it at all.

I can almost guarantee you that the mission when you accepted it had:
1. A bullet point noting what you need including an SRV.
2. Told you this is an illegal activity in certain locations.
In big red warning letters with a large warning icon.

 

[Pardot Kynes]

Exactly my thoughts afterwards... Assassination (even a terrorist)= Murder.

Purrr-fect troll logic. You are a habitual troller. I've checked your posts - they are nothing but trolling posts, and contribute nothing to these boards.

 

[SentineI]

- No mention of needing a SRV for this.

I have SOME sympathy... But anyone with any experience of Horizons planetary landings will immediately spot an SRV is required:

[*]Interact with the Comms Array datalink at Due Keep+++ to find your target's location.

The only place you "interact with a blah-blah datalink" is in an SRV. Additionally, "Due Keep" is a typical name for a surface base, and "+++" is the final dead give away.

Still, FDev shouldn't allow you to take a mission, if you don't have an SRV, just like they don't let you take a mission if you don't have enough cargo space.

- No indication that this mission is illegal.

I have rather less sympathy here. If you've done a few missions requiring you to kill an NPC within the last 6-12 months (I can't remember when the crime system changed), you should have realised that:
Killing someone is always illegal EXCEPT in any (Minor) Faction jurisdictions where they have a bounty. That's why you should not just kill any NPCs on sight (unless they have a bounty). It's also why you should not kill someone who did not have a bounty shown UNTIL you used the Kill Warrant Scanner, since the KWS only reveals bounties in other systems (and killing someone who has no bounty shown in the current system is a crime).

Let me explain: The Pilot Federation who supposed to be good guys want me to kill a TERRORIST LEADER who supposed to be a bad guy.

The person you are sent to kill is undoubtedly a terrorist leader, and consider a criminal in SOME jurisdiction. However, you are likely to have been sent to kill them in their "home" system, or at least somewhere were they are just minding their own business. In short you are being asked to do a criminal act, because you are not killing them in the jurisdiction(s) that consider them criminal.

I need some help. Apparently I'm stupid because I can't understand this logic.

Look at it like this. If you kill someone in Spain, you're a criminal there, but in most other countries you won't have a criminal record. So legal systems on Earth are roughly the size of a country (of course it's not quite that simple, but never mind that). In ED, legal systems are roughly the size of a star system. More specifically, they are determined by the controlling (Minor) Faction (who decide the law), but those typically cover just one star system (and maybe a few other space stations in other systems).

So it kinda makes sense... from a certain perspective. If you still don't think it's realistic, then just tell yourself it's a game, not reality, and they designed it like this to make for interesting gameplay. So what if you got a bounty? It's only a bounty in one tiny part of the galaxy (most likely a star system or two), and you are still an honest citizen in the rest of the galaxy. You can choose to either avoid that area, or return there to clear your name, or perhaps commit more crimes in just that area.

P.S. FDev have said they are looking at giving 'serial criminals' (those with massive bounties, or bounties across many systems) a criminal record for the whole Super Power (aka Federation or Empire or Alliance) that those crimes occurred in. But it's anyone's guess if or when this gets done (I'd bet 6-12 months from now).

 

[Pardot Kynes]

I have SOME sympathy... But anyone with any experience of Horizons planetary landings will immediately spot an SRV is required:

The only place you "interact with a blah-blah datalink" is in an SRV. Additionally, "Due Keep" is a typical name for a surface base, and "+++" is the final dead give away.

Still, FDev shouldn't allow you to take a mission, if you don't have an SRV, just like they don't let you take a mission if you don't have enough cargo space.


I have rather less sympathy here. If you've done a few missions requiring you to kill an NPC within the last 6-12 months (I can't remember when the crime system changed), you should have realised that:
Killing someone is always illegal EXCEPT in any (Minor) Faction jurisdictions where they have a bounty. That's why you should not just kill any NPCs on sight (unless they have a bounty). It's also why use a Kill Warrant Scanner must be used with great care - if someone has a bounty in another system (with a different Faction jurisdiction), you still can't kill them anywhere else (it will be a crime), just because the KWS says they have a bounty somewhere.


The person you are sent to kill is undoubtedly a terrorist leader, and consider a criminal in SOME jurisdiction. However, you are likely to have been sent to kill them in their "home" system, or at least somewhere were they are just minding their own business. In short you are being asked to do a criminal act, because you are not killing them in the jurisdiction(s) that consider them criminal.


Look at it like this. If you kill someone in Spain, you're a criminal there, but in most other countries you won't have a criminal record. So legal systems on Earth are roughly the size of a country (of course it's not quite that simple, but never mind that). In ED, legal systems are roughly the size of a star system. More specifically they determined by the controlling (Minor) Faction, but those typically cover just one star system (and maybe a few other space stations in other systems).

So it kinda makes sense... from a certain perspective. If you still don't think it's realistic, then just tell yourself it's a game, not reality, and they designed it like this to make for interesting gameplay.

What does +++ mean?

 

[Lightspeed]

What does +++ mean?

Security strength .... less + means a single player might have a chance on his own to complete the mission, but +++ are well guarded.

 

[Pardot Kynes]

Security strength .... less + means a single player might have a chance on his own to complete the mission, but +++ are well guarded.

So why does it also say 'low security', 'high security' next to it?

This doesn't necessarily correspond to these + thingys..

 

[777Driver]

Security strength .... less + means a single player might have a chance on his own to complete the mission, but +++ are well guarded.

It doesn't mean security strength. The + signs determine the size of the base. You can have a huge +++ settlement that is low security.

 

[Pardot Kynes]

It doesn't mean security strength. The + signs determine the size of the base. You can have a huge +++ settlement that is low security.

So the earlier 'expert' was incorrect?

So Lightspeed, you're wrong about the +++ - see above. So much for experts giving snarkey advice.

Why doesn't FD just publish some explanations?

 

[777Driver]

So the earlier 'expert' was incorrect?

Which post are you referring to? I've only skimmed through the topic.

Edit - If you are referring the ChrisH, how exactly is he wrong? Chris stated that +++ is a dead giveaway that the mission requires an SRV, that is correct. Lightspeed misunderstood the meaning of those + signs.

 

[Pardot Kynes]

Which post are you referring to? I've only skimmed through the topic.

Edit - If you are referring the ChrisH, how exactly is he wrong?

Read the thread.

 

[777Driver]

Read the thread.

I have read the post by ChrisH, see my reply above.

 

[GG7]

Those RED sections don't really show up too well on my calibrated monitor. Perhaps the OP isn't seeing them, or they don't stand out enough? I think YELLOW would be a better color choice since Yellow seems to POP in this game, where RED often does not depending on the background color.

As to the criminal aspects...

Any time the target is CLEAN, if you fire first, you get WANTED! Heck! If you forget to SCAN a WANTED Pirate and fire on them, you will get fined and WANTED! And if they get blown up by you or an NPC SA, then you have a bounty on your head! YESS! It still happens in 2.1!

I got my ship blown up delivering illegal cargo back to the issuing "PLANETARY" base! Didn't notice that the controlling faction rep was falling after every fine. Base went Hostile as I was landing, and I was trapped in the hangar and being pelted from above by the NEW patrolling SA NPC police ships. Tried to leave and was blown up on the pad in less than 10 seconds! 10 million rebuy, and 9 million loss of cargo!

How did I escape with only a 19 million credit loss and not my entire bank account?

That will be my little secret until more people start complaining about that problem to FD. Getting trapped on a planetary base when it goes HOSTILE on you can be a perpetual death sentence as things currently stand. Thanks to the new Patrolling SA ships.

Guess FD didn't think that contingency through very well, did they?

But I digress...

OP... Just wait 6 days and the bounty will be lifted. Almost impossible to play this game without being WANTED for something, somewhere!

 

[Lightspeed]

So the earlier 'expert' was incorrect?

So Lightspeed, you're wrong about the +++ - see above. So much for experts giving snarkey advice.

Why doesn't FD just publish some explanations?

Yep, looks like I was wrong, apologies, and thanks to everyone else for the correction !

By the way, I'm not an expert, and my advice isn't snarkey. Just plain wrong this time.

 

[hunvagy]

I agree the illegal nature of missions and mission goods is not always noted on the mission board. Especially when you do salvage missions, you really have to remember and know what is legal and illegal in a jurisdiction, even if the salvage itself is not marked as stolen. But.. it's not the Pilot's Federation that asked you to assassinate someone. The mission board generates missions for the local factions. The faction you chose the mission from wanted the terrorist dead. Also every mission that goes to ground has the Horizons icon next to it in the list (it's a star rising above the horizon). You can assume all those missions will involve an SRV.

 

[Captain Willard]

Sounds exciting.