Meta Discussion Issues and balance? Will it be improved?

[The Scientist]

I'm not really into the community thing of ED, I mostly just play with friends when they are on. That's really the only time I have fun with this game, and even when I play with friends it seems like their are glaring issues that really need to be fixed but never are. Then they come out with updates that only are for 1% of the player base and seem to ignore everything else about the game that needs work. The issues I see are mostly my opinion, but my friends mostly agree too. I'm mostly wondering if anyone else thinks some of these things need to be worked on too and if it is likely at all the Frontier even cares because it seems like they kinda don't. So here is a bit of feedback on things bugging me.

Ship balance - So there seems to be a tiny set of viable ships, and by that I mean if your not using them your basically a 2nd rate player. And some ships really should not be suffering from this, I can't only speak for the ships I mainly fly which is the Type - 10 and the viper. My friends mostly use Cutters, and I often have to play very hard to keep up with them. The Type - 10 in my opinion could use some improvements, and I fly a viper with grade 3 high performance engines and am left wondering how massive ships can still fly better then me. Like you don't see star destroyers in star wars dog fighting X-wings do you? Large ships just seem like better fighters then actual fighters.

Engineering - As much as I love "Space Chore Simulator" this is really a big negative on the fun aspect of this game, I mean games are supposed to be fun right? And challenging? But does Minecraft force players to have god like creative skills to progress in the game? No it really doesn't. The problem is that it forces you to play this kind of mini game that really is no fun at all. I get some people are completely fine with this, but it is just so outside of my own play style that I just simply fall behind and spend hours getting grade 3 on a single weapon... The only solution I can come up with is selling engineered parts for lots of credits, not too much though. Just enough to let players who are good at somethings spend credits in areas where they are not, especially since engineering is EXTREMELY important to do. I also have an issue with how powerful some builds can get compared to their non engineered forms, but that's for another discussion.

Earning Credits - I have no problem with this really, just that it is so inconsistent and every time some viable way to earn a living appears it gets nerfed. My big issue is that it is too random and every other method that doesn't change is such a poor way to get money it feels like players are forced to find exploits in the game.

So that's it for now, I am very frustrated with how balanced the game is and the way it only really wants you to fly ships you don't like in ways you don't play. Thanks for the read.


Edit: This may be in the wrong section, sorry about that.

 

[F4fred]

I agree that the money making methods are not balanced. Combat pays very poorly for a lot of risk, mining pays very well for little risk. Passenger missions and wing cargo missions also pay well. That could do with balancing. Isn’t David Braben on record as saying that all forms of gameplay should have equal monetary reward so there isn’t a meta for getting credits?
As for engineering I find it the least grindy aspect of the game. I get a lot of engineering materials from just doing the stuff I like, mission rewards, blowing up pirates and driving around on planets in the SRV. I did a trip to visit the abandoned INRA bases which was very interesting and each of them had some data points to scan and some manufactured materials to scoop. Some of the planets have geological sites which I dropped in on and got a lot of raw materials from. One of the things I decided was not rush things in this game. I don’t need a fully engineered Cutter right now! Picked a ship I liked flying and have been engineering it up over time. Will add ships and engineer those in due course, but just enjoy it and not let it become a grind.
I have never played Minecraft, but some of the other MMO’s I have played you don’t need god like creative skills, to progress and get all the goodies, but you do need very deep pockets or the wallet warriors will out spend you in real cash. I hope Elite never becomes like that. I think Star Citizen will become so where the players with the deep pockets have all the latest ships and be unbeatable.

 

[The Scientist]

Yeah, what I meant was that you can spend credits to get some materials you don't have at least. Make much less efficiant then going out and getting them but have it as an option for some people.

 

[sinisalo]

I basically disagree with all of that. Only some ships are viable? The game requires god-ships? You sound like a PvE player complaining about PvP.

Engineering - As much as I love "Space Chore Simulator" this is really a big negative on the fun aspect of this game, I mean games are supposed to be fun right? And challenging? But does Minecraft force players to have god like creative skills to progress in the game? No it really doesn't. The problem is that it forces you to play this kind of mini game that really is no fun at all. I get some people are completely fine with this, but it is just so outside of my own play style that I just simply fall behind and spend hours getting grade 3 on a single weapon... The only solution I can come up with is selling engineered parts for lots of credits, not too much though. Just enough to let players who are good at somethings spend credits in areas where they are not, especially since engineering is EXTREMELY important to do. I also have an issue with how powerful some builds can get compared to their non engineered forms, but that's for another discussion.

I wonder if you have actually done this? Do you have engineered ships or are you complaining about what you think engineering is? What do you mean 'selling engineered parts for lots of credits'?

 

[The Scientist]

I basically disagree with all of that. Only some ships are viable? The game requires god-ships? You sound like a PvE player complaining about PvP.



I wonder if you have actually done this? Do you have engineered ships or are you complaining about what you think engineering is? What do you mean 'selling engineered parts for lots of credits'?

I'm going to avoid arguing with you for the sake that it seems like your not trying to be constructive and you are resorting to insults. If you word things differently maybe I can relay my reasoning but you don't seem to be a very reasonable person.

 

[sinisalo]

OK.

 

[F4fred]

Yeah, what I meant was that you can spend credits to get some materials you don't have at least. Make much less efficiant then going out and getting them but have it as an option for some people.

Don’t think that would work. Credits are so easy to come by no one would bother going out to gather them. Fdev have made engineering much easier by introducing material traders. It makes it easy to trade for odd materials you need instead of hunting them down. With places like Dav’s Hope where you can drive around and pick up manufactured until your bins are full or Jameson’s crashed Cobra for encoded data, geological sites or Crystalline Shards for raw it is not hard to get enough materials to fully engineer a ship in a couple of evenings play. I unlocked most of the engineers just by playing the game and getting the stuff they want wasn’t hard either.

 

[CMDR X]

I still hate enginnering but have come to terms with it. Biggest pain now is visiting them for experimentals.
I must admit a G5 Krait will absolutely demolish any vanilla ship. Gathering mats is a pain at first but as you
build up your supply and follow a few methods of play, they stack up quite nicely.
Here's what I did:

• Build the fastest Eagle you can and fit it with only a wake scanner. Hop into it every once in while and scan wakes outside your station. Takes only a few minutes a day.
• Build a Hauler with a 1A collector and 2x8t racks and find a dual star system with no planets only a station. Hop back and forth to the next system and farm HGE's. Plenty of G5s.
• Drop an SRV into that Hauler and, as F4fred said, do Dav's hope, Jameson Cobra and a planets rich in rare raw materials (Selenium, etc.). You get the low grades this way too.
• Throw a 3A collector and 16t rack on your best fighter, head out to a CNB and let 'em loose after killing wanteds. (No problem for me because pew FTW.)

Before you know it you're loaded. Whatever you do, don't go grind for mats as you need them because that's when it starts sucking. And as F4fred also mentioned, any mat you are missing can be traded.

Don't forget your limpets either..
X.

 

[B.Roberts]

Engineering - As much as I love "Space Chore Simulator" this is really a big negative on the fun aspect of this game, I mean games are supposed to be fun right? And challenging? But does Minecraft force players to have god like creative skills to progress in the game? No it really doesn't. The problem is that it forces you to play this kind of mini game that really is no fun at all. I get some people are completely fine with this, but it is just so outside of my own play style that I just simply fall behind and spend hours getting grade 3 on a single weapon... The only solution I can come up with is selling engineered parts for lots of credits, not too much though. Just enough to let players who are good at somethings spend credits in areas where they are not, especially since engineering is EXTREMELY important to do. I also have an issue with how powerful some builds can get compared to their non engineered forms, but that's for another discussion.

Engineering is optional and you don't really have to do it if you don't like it or find it difficult. No one is forcing anybody to engineer things. I've been playing for years (since early beta days) and haven't engineer any of my ships at all until last year, just didn't wanted to and didn't feel like I need it. Then, after seeng so many threads about engineering on these forums, I decided to do some engineering just for a hack of it and found it pretty easy and straight forward. I unlocked all the engineers that I need in about a week, I unlocked all the Guardian stuff that I wanted another week later. There are numerous tutorials and bunch of information on this subject, you just have to figure your ways around it. As for material gathering, you can have all the materials you need just by doing your normal missions, scanning ships and picking up stuff while cruising around and doing occasional pew-pew and it will take you some time. Otherwise spare few days and go on material farming, much faster but somewhat boring.

 

[Madrax573]

I'm not really into the community thing of ED, I mostly just play with friends when they are on. That's really the only time I have fun with this game, and even when I play with friends it seems like their are glaring issues that really need to be fixed but never are. Then they come out with updates that only are for 1% of the player base and seem to ignore everything else about the game that needs work. The issues I see are mostly my opinion, but my friends mostly agree too. I'm mostly wondering if anyone else thinks some of these things need to be worked on too and if it is likely at all the Frontier even cares because it seems like they kinda don't. So here is a bit of feedback on things bugging me.

Ship balance - So there seems to be a tiny set of viable ships, and by that I mean if your not using them your basically a 2nd rate player. And some ships really should not be suffering from this, I can't only speak for the ships I mainly fly which is the Type - 10 and the viper. My friends mostly use Cutters, and I often have to play very hard to keep up with them. The Type - 10 in my opinion could use some improvements, and I fly a viper with grade 3 high performance engines and am left wondering how massive ships can still fly better then me. Like you don't see star destroyers in star wars dog fighting X-wings do you? Large ships just seem like better fighters then actual fighters.

Engineering - As much as I love "Space Chore Simulator" this is really a big negative on the fun aspect of this game, I mean games are supposed to be fun right? And challenging? But does Minecraft force players to have god like creative skills to progress in the game? No it really doesn't. The problem is that it forces you to play this kind of mini game that really is no fun at all. I get some people are completely fine with this, but it is just so outside of my own play style that I just simply fall behind and spend hours getting grade 3 on a single weapon... The only solution I can come up with is selling engineered parts for lots of credits, not too much though. Just enough to let players who are good at somethings spend credits in areas where they are not, especially since engineering is EXTREMELY important to do. I also have an issue with how powerful some builds can get compared to their non engineered forms, but that's for another discussion.

Earning Credits - I have no problem with this really, just that it is so inconsistent and every time some viable way to earn a living appears it gets nerfed. My big issue is that it is too random and every other method that doesn't change is such a poor way to get money it feels like players are forced to find exploits in the game.

So that's it for now, I am very frustrated with how balanced the game is and the way it only really wants you to fly ships you don't like in ways you don't play. Thanks for the read.


Edit: This may be in the wrong section, sorry about that.

I'm going to have to disagree I'm afraid.

That patches and updates cater to the 1%... Not really. Take for example the latest iteration on fleet carriers. FDev are taking direct feed back and altering the new content direct for the 'majority' of players.

Ship balance: Yes there are issues around ship balance etc but if you are get flown rings around your viper by a cutter then I suggest that you need more flight time. A viper, even 'with grade 3 high performance engines' will completely outperform the big ships. not it the DPS race etc but in terms of actual flying for sure.

Engineering: Minecraft is pretty much an entire 'crafting mini game' with a FPS interface and really does not compare in the slightest to how the basic engineering works in ED. You need literally zero 'creative skills' for engineering in ED. Go collect some stuff, give it to the npc and then press a button and voila you have an upgraded module with modified stats etc. Some arguments could be made for amounts of materials needed or the rarity of them spawning to be found etc but that is standard in a rng based simulation'ish game. Again this sounds very much like you don't have much real experience with the system.

Earning Credits: Earning credits in game is so silly easy now compared to early days. The 'gold rushes' that get found do get nerfed that is correct as they do try to find some semblance of balance to cash generation and these rushes just create huge imbalances in the player base. But outside of the 'rushes' credit generation is and always has been relatively easy and steady, it's just the base amount has increased over time.

It's a pity that you are frustrated by your limited experience in game so far. My advice is go out and actually play the game for yourself, you seem to only have a very limited experience of the game so far and only when friends are playing. If they are all in engineered cutters I'm assuming they have had some time in game (well not really given hw easy cash in to grind if so desired) and you may well just be getting caught up in the apathy seeing as they have grinded stuff too much. I've seen it way too many times tbh.

Find a ship you like the looks and concept of and go fit one up. Fly it and get to know it properly, then go engineer it. I think you'll be surprised when you can fly your desired ship properly and your friends will just look amazed.

Fly dangerous, cos safe is boring o7

 

[Sethiest]

Oh hey, random thread to throw cents at.

Either take one size 8 optional away from the Cutter, or give the Type-9 another size 7 or 8 slot.

Or just delete the Cutter. It's way too good at everything. I mean, it can carry more cargo than a Type-9 and still has 2 size 5 restricted spaces (without shields anyway). It also has the strongest shields. It also is the fastest of the big ships. It also has the close to the highest DPS of any of the big ships. It also makes the best mining ship.

Make the Type-7 a medium ship.

Take 2 utility slots away from the FDL and Mamba.

 

[F4fred]

Oh hey, random thread to throw cents at.

Either take one size 8 optional away from the Cutter, or give the Type-9 another size 7 or 8 slot.

Or just delete the Cutter. It's way too good at everything. I mean, it can carry more cargo than a Type-9 and still has 2 size 5 restricted spaces (without shields anyway). It also has the strongest shields. It also is the fastest of the big ships. It also has the close to the highest DPS of any of the big ships. It also makes the best mining ship.

Make the Type-7 a medium ship.

Take 2 utility slots away from the FDL and Mamba.

The Cutter also costs a lot more than the T9 to buy and outfit, plus having a significant rank grind to unlock. It should be better than the T9.

 

[Sethiest]

The Cutter also costs a lot more than the T9 to buy and outfit, plus having a significant rank grind to unlock. It should be better than the T9.

In todays Elite its hardly difficult to get the funds for it. One trip in a Python to the diamond mines and you can afford it with money to spare.

The rank grind can be done in about day or two. At least thats how long it took me to get federation rank.

I just think that a ship whose obvious focus is cargo, shouldnt be beaten by another ship thats multi purpose. Like how the Python is better than a Type 7. Just make the type 7 a medium ship!

 

[F4fred]

In todays Elite its hardly difficult to get the funds for it. One trip in a Python to the diamond mines and you can afford it with money to spare.

The rank grind can be done in about day or two. At least thats how long it took me to get federation rank.

I just think that a ship whose obvious focus is cargo, shouldnt be beaten by another ship thats multi purpose. Like how the Python is better than a Type 7. Just make the type 7 a medium ship!

Well the time it took me to unlock the Cutter was a lot longer, but then I wasn’t grinding it, just playing the game. The cash is another matter. My Cutter cost around 700,000 Cr after A rating and kitting it out. That is a few trips to mine LTD’s (at least for now, once the Borann triple Hotspot goes it will take longer) . But I don’t have a problem with the Cutter being better than a Type 9. Type 9 is a cheap cargo hauler. Cutter is a top of the line ship.

 

[Rudi Raumkraut]

Before tweaking any other ship, get rid of the Conda