General / Off-Topic It's really hard to understand

In order to have the simplest universal currency of energy for carbon based life, ATP has to be made.
In order to make that basic thing, we need a molecular version of a jet engine.

If you have just 5 minutes, take a look at this engine, running in every living organism, making a simple molecule that conducts power for almost every chemical reaction in our cells.
I guarantee that you'll be blown away if you haven't seen this before. It's keeping you alive right now.


So, how does life start?
We can't begin evolution until we have a frikkin turbine engine that generates chemical energy?
How do you make that complex thing without the ATP in the first place?
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One of my co-workers got sick, developed rhabdomyolysis after a gym session.
The illness produced quite a fever.

The fever is caused by mitochondrial breakdown: the protons leak through the membrane, causing the energy to be lost as heat.
Once that happens, the Hydrogen and Oxygen reaction to water gets decoupled, and they make peroxides and peroxynitrites, which blow holes through the membranes, and the mitochondrion just falls apart.

Mitochondria themselves are amazing. They are functionally sort of capacitors, holding an electric charge that runs the ATP making machine.
They also hold a self destruct mechanism for DNA.

WHY? I have no idea, but they do.
It's called AIF, "apoptosis-inducing factor", and once it gets loose, it goes to the cell nucleus and basically takes an axe to the chromosomes.
So the cell dies, of course. They keep us alive, and also kill us. And what's more, they're not even native to our cells. They started up as independent symbiotic organisms with their own DNA, and now they seem to be running the show. Inside our cells, they live in a protein tubule network, where they move around, fuse, grow, and divide on their own.

Are we just glorified hosts for the Mitochondrial Collective Intelligence? Maybe. .
 
My question is what inefficient precursors to ATP synthase existed? Membrane potentials pretty much define all regulated processes. What other gates might be ATP synthetic that we have yet to uncover?
 
My question is what inefficient precursors to ATP synthase existed? Membrane potentials pretty much define all regulated processes. What other gates might be ATP synthetic that we have yet to uncover?

Very insightful question there.

The precursors would be really ancient, and we might never find them in Nature.

Chances are the remnants of the code are still in our "junk" DNA, so we'd need some major computing power to generate possible protein models from that, and then see if any of them( probably hundreds of millions??) could be tweaked to work. It might be in the code the mitochondria uploaded into our genome, they wouldn't need it on board if they have the working turbine code now.

We can't manage that feat now, for sure. There are biology papers on the evolution of ATP Synthase, but I don't have the time or expertise to read and understand them.
 
Aha, sorry to have wasted your time. It's in my line of work, and not interesting for everyone.
yknow, i just realised something, having debated with you in the past, to the degree where we were on opposing sides..
i realised something about your revealed interests,(molecular levels of study etc etc)

its a good thing to look at things closely, and inspect the intricacies of creation in an attempt to understand his laws&order of creation.
if upon your observations, you begin to see the patterns of nature in the microscopic world, will you come to accept that Laws and the order of creation are actually established by someone who has Authority!!
 
Personally i dont much look into the intricacies of molecules... rather i choose to look at the world of creation and the order and laws within.. from a expanded wideview lens, like that of a bird to see everything from the top down view.
 
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in relation to the Self-Destruct mechanism you identify...
without me looking into the molecular structure, and attempting to find a corresponding mechanical reason,
rather i will attempt to address the question "WHY"

i would express the understanding in the following way:
Order of things are important and Laws are established to maintain continuity or perpetuity.

If the re-arrangement of Order is in contradiction to established Laws... you will inevitably bring about a collapse or degradation or again entropy.
thus recognising the established Laws of Creation which are unchangeable is just as important as the order of things!!!
that is why.. Law and Order go both hand in hand within society, and its continued existence!!
 
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How dare you!
 
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