General / Off-Topic Jeremy Corbyn told the truth in "Traingate"

[Ian Skippy]

JC shouldn't play PR games, then. This story was created and promoted by his team, who he was paying. It was solely about casting JC as some sort of man of the people and got to a point where even the Guardian realised that the original news item was misleading and required some explanation.

In case you'd forgotten - this is the man that promised a fresh approach to his politics and presentation. No spin, all substance. Except for the spin.

JC was sat down in a seat 45 minutes into a 3 hour journey. JC admitted himself that he could have been sat down earlier but chose not to as he'd prefer to sit with his wife (strangely, she wasn't present for that photo with him sat on the floor). JC refused an upgrade to first class, presumably so he could demonstrate how hard done by he and his fellow commuters were. The self-admitted facts of the matter stink to high-heaven.

The news piece was basically hand-crafted by Yannis Mendez and a guy called Anthony Casey. Frankly, that's where the blame for the backlash lies. The stupid thing is, if he hadn't resorted to picking a fight with Branson (a Labour supporter and donor, by the way - top work JC) he would have made a perfectly reasonable political point which would have chimed with lots of people and then we'd have moved on.

The New Statesman I think covers this nonsense pretty well:



(And how on earth do you manage to make this about the Conservatives?)

How does any of that in any way excuses the lies spread which are now proven to be false?

"He shoukd play pr games then. If you upload a vid, its perfectky fine to take bits of it, create a false narrative to falsely accuse someone of things you know didnt happen."

Why not just say:"hey, JC was right, that other lying sack of waste should profoundly apologize and then get lost."

 

[Talarin]

How does any of that in any way excuses the lies spread which are now proven to be false?

Sorry, what lies?

The Virgin Trains rebuttal to the story he created was that he'd walked past seats that he could have taken if he'd so chosen. JC himself said that was true, but he'd chosen not to. The Guardian itself carried that. The problem here is that both sides of the argument created a bit of visual illusion to substantiate their story. JC did the image and video of him sitting on the floor of the train. Virgin did CCTV shots of them moving through the carriage where they'd eventually end up sitting.

A Corbyn source said a handful of seats had been available, but not two together, and the Labour leader wanted to sit with his wife. As a result he, his wife and team were among a series of other passengers forced to sit or stand in the corridor.

The source added that when Virgin staff spotted Corbyn sitting in a vestibule they offered him a complimentary upgrade to first class, which he refused.

from the same article

Yannis Mendez, who filmed the original video – he has been following Corbyn and volunteers for his leadership campaign against Owen Smith – added that some of the seemingly empty seats shown in the first Virgin Trains image had bags and coats on them, so were not free.

Bags and coats stopped them from sitting down? Yep, sounds legit!

Where is the false narrative? This genuinely seems like both sides told their side of a story JC created, neither side lied and JC came off worse. Is there some element here I'm not aware of?

 

[popuptoaster]

I did - He was offered an upgrade to first class and he refused.

I've been in that same situation and been offered an upgrade - I accepted it (and first class is comfy).

I like JC but if he wants to play the martyr then fine, but he could have had a comfy seat if he wanted it.

He wasn't offered upgrades for his staff as well, and i reckon he thought refusing the upgrade while others were not offered it was the right thing to do, he may not be perfect but he pretty much always sticks to his principles.

If they offered you an upgrade but not your wife and kids would you take it?

 

[Rampant]

If they offered you an upgrade but not your wife and kids would you take it?

I reckon this particular person would. After all, that would be the Tory thing to do, would it not?

 

[Marak]

He wasn't offered upgrades for his staff as well, and i reckon he thought refusing the upgrade while others were not offered it was the right thing to do, he may not be perfect but he pretty much always sticks to his principles.

If they offered you an upgrade but not your wife and kids would you take it?

I haven't really looked into this story much so I probably don't know all the details - and if I was offered an upgrade and my wife wasn't I wouldn't take it. If anyone else in my party was refused an upgrade I would also refuse it. JC said he DID walk past vacant seats because he wanted to sit next to his wife, which is fine. Making a big thing of it is a bit strange though - trains are sometimes busy and it's hard to get a seat. Is this really newsworthy? All trains must have free seats all the time. All hospitals must have sufficient capacity to have free beds all the time. All moterways must have enough lanes so we don't get traffic jams. All police stations must have sufficient officers available to respond to every call within 5 minutes... I could go on.

I reckon this particular person would. After all, that would be the Tory thing to do, would it not?

If that was for me - I'm not a Tory.

I don't identify with any political party - I just look at what everyone is offering when the powers that be deign to offer me the chance to vote.

 

[FuzzySpider]

He wasn't offered upgrades for his staff as well, and i reckon he thought refusing the upgrade while others were not offered it was the right thing to do, he may not be perfect but he pretty much always sticks to his principles.

Corbyn is not a man of principles. He is no worse than any other MP in the house of commons, but he certainly is no better. He is perfectly at home lying, telling half-truths, or exploiting situations in a pretty brazen way to achieve his aims. Only today he was going on about "listening" to MPs who disagree with him when a few months ago he was on about de-selections.

If you want to know about Corbyn this is an excellent article.

 

[Cosmos]

And realistically, what will this startling revelation amount to? A few people, like ourselves, rightfully calling it out as disgusting while the liars get less than a slap on the wrist - and tomorrow, we'll be awaiting the next bout of ad hominem in the commons.

Yeah watching PMQ's is sickening for the most part. Yet people keep voting for the Tories

 

[Cosmos]

Corbyn is not a man of principles. He is no worse than any other MP in the house of commons, but he certainly is no better. He is perfectly at home lying, telling half-truths, or exploiting situations in a pretty brazen way to achieve his aims. Only today he was going on about "listening" to MPs who disagree with him when a few months ago he was on about de-selections.

If you want to know about Corbyn this is an excellent article.

Rubbish..

What about the way he has been treated? Funny how the PLP changed it tune after the election. One can only wonder at what might have been last election time if the PLP had got behind him before hand.

Frankly de-selection for some seems generous. At this point its hard to not view certain elements within Labour as a 5th column.

 

[FuzzySpider]

What about the way he has been treated? Funny how the PLP changed it tune after the election. One can only wonder at what might have been last election time if the PLP had got behind him before hand.

He fought against the weakest and most inept Conservative government in living memory and still couldn't win. His vote surged due to the youth coming out in protest against Brexit. Once his true stance on Brexit is spelled out that support will evaporate (there are already signs of that now).

Had the PLP got behind him you'd have a battle in the party right now about whether or not to take the UK out of Europe. And with most Labour supporters being remain you'd have Corbyn, a sloganeering campaigner without any political skill, sinking fast.

Frankly de-selection for some seems generous. At this point its hard to not view certain elements within Labour as a 5th column.

He rebelled against his own party over 500 times during the Blair years. There was talk about deselecting him, but Blair said no - they were a broad church.

Corbyn is on the lunatic fringe. Venezuelan style socialism won't be popular in the UK and if the PLP are deselected to the extent that is their message you're insuring Conservative rule for decades.

 

[Rampant]

He fought against the weakest and most inept Conservative government in living memory and still couldn't win. His vote surged due to the youth coming out in protest against Brexit. Once his true stance on Brexit is spelled out that support will evaporate (there are already signs of that now).

Had the PLP got behind him you'd have a battle in the party right now about whether or not to take the UK out of Europe. And with most Labour supporters being remain you'd have Corbyn, a sloganeering campaigner without any political skill, sinking fast.



He rebelled against his own party over 500 times during the Blair years. There was talk about deselecting him, but Blair said no - they were a broad church.

Corbyn is on the lunatic fringe. Venezuelan style socialism won't be popular in the UK and if the PLP are deselected to the extent that is their message you're insuring Conservative rule for decades.

Biggest load of codswallop I've read in ages. And I read a load of codswallop all the time.

Corbyn "without any political skill"? - I am on the verge of chuckling with mirth on that one. So funny.

I would point out that the terms "He rebelled against his own party" and "Corbyn is not a man of principles" are mutually exclusive. You can't have it both ways. Which is it?

I also laugh at the poor attempt at propaganda that likens UK Labour to Venezuela. Sure. We have *SO* much in common with Venezuela. Not.

Look. I'm no Labour supporter and have never voted for them. I'm 46, so seen a fair few elections. But this Corbyn Bashing is a old hat and tiresome now and what is more has not born any fruit. Quite telling is that Corbyn uses his political nous to soak up all the rubbish and lies people can throw at him and never once retaliate or make it personal. Because he has principles. People can see through the lies directed at him and about him. Even those, like yourself I'm sure, who perpetuate the echo-chamber style of denigration, just because that's the only weapon you have. Queue the quote from Margaret Thatcher.

Yours Aye

Mark H

 

[FuzzySpider]

Biggest load of codswallop I've read in ages. And I read a load of codswallop all the time.

Corbyn "without any political skill"? - I am on the verge of chuckling with mirth on that one. So funny.

Hard to argue with that kind of well sourced logic.

I would point out that the terms "He rebelled against his own party" and "Corbyn is not a man of principles" are mutually exclusive. You can't have it both ways. Which is it?

Iain Duncan-Smith rebelled against his own party. Are you saying he is a man of principles?

Clearly, you can have it both ways, can't you?

I also laugh at the poor attempt at propaganda that likens UK Labour to Venezuela. Sure. We have *SO* much in common with Venezuela. Not.

Labour is not like Venezuela. Corbyn would see the UK become more akin to Venezuela.

Spoiler

[video=youtube;2FbWsINjpRY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FbWsINjpRY[/video]

Do you remember Trump being castigated for condemning violence "on many sides"? Well....

Look. I'm no Labour supporter and have never voted for them.

Look. I don't believe you....

We have *SO* much in common with Venezuela.

And look. I am a socialist myself. But a 21st century socialist who favours a Scandinavian style system. I also favour nationalization of all healthcare - including drug production and R&D. I just think the idea of turning the clock back decades and restarting British Leyland, overt protectionism, and pulling up the drawbridges is totally misguided. Tony Benns ideas were crank back then, right now they're poison.

I don't think Corbyn is any worse than the Tories. He just isn't any better. I am sick of the messianic worship he is getting from the very people he is preparing to throw into a volcano as a sacrifice to his Brave New 1970s socialist order.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Corbyn's a Donkey , in fact EVERY single labourite who's rich is a hypocritical Donkey, socialists my butt:

"Comrade Corbyn owns a house worth £600,000 to £700,000. That's 3 times the national average. He has a gold-plated occupational pension after 30-odd years as an MP of around £1.6m. That is 18 times the average UK pension pot of £87,724. He earns a basic salary of £77,000, which is almost 3 times the average UK salary of £26,500 and provides him with a weekly income 4 times that of most pensioners.
On top of that he gets an annual £40,000 salary uplift for being Leader of the Opposition, even though he's not very good at leading or opposing, which is 26 times the average £1,500 bonus other UK workers get. "

He's a top grade CHAMPAGNE socialist and that's an oxymoron.

ALL Labour MPs should take home the MINIMUM wage to show solidarity between them and the poor they SHOULD be fighting for.

 

[Rampant]

Iain Duncan-Smith rebelled against his own party. Are you saying he is a man of principles?

Well, on those terms, he probably is a man of his own principles, but lacking in morals and not possessing the type of principles that you or I find palatable.

Clearly, you can have it both ways, can't you?

No, you still can't have it both ways. If a man stands up for his own principles and in doing so rebels against his own "broad church" party, then you can't paly down either in my view.

Labour is not like Venezuela. Corbyn would see the UK become more akin to Venezuela.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FbWsINjpRY

Do you remember Trump being castigated for condemning violence "on many sides"? Well....

I think this is taking the analogy way too far. So what if some of the policies that Corbyn favours are also akin to *some* policies used in other countries (but not all policies). This doesn't mean a wholesale shift to that other country's politic or socio-economic status - you know - like Corbyn haters try to make the general public believe, by deliberately attempting to conjure up mental images of UK streets being like the shanty towns of Venezuela

Now I've witnessed your more cerebral discussion on this topic, I am less inclined to want to deliberate with your argument, because, well, you know yourself you were being too much broad brush with your put down and appear to be trying use broad argument to sway the audience by indulging in leading them deliberately to wrong conclusions.
Kinda like saying that if Corbyn's Labour won a General Election then the UK would plummet economic status to be like Venezuela and you know this isn't true, but is a conclusion you are trying to lead of your audience because it suits your agenda.

Look. I don't believe you....

I don't care because I'm comfortable that it's true. I used to vote Lib Dem. Because of my principles. But when Lib Dem abandoned *their* principles to coalition with Conservative, that sounded their death knell. Since then I've voted Independent or non-mainstream.

Allow me to quote you on your not believing me, anyway...

Hard to argue with that kind of well sourced logic.

And look. I am a socialist myself. But a 21st century socialist who favours a Scandinavian style system. I also favour nationalization of all healthcare - including drug production and R&D. I just think the idea of turning the clock back decades and restarting British Leyland, overt protectionism, and pulling up the drawbridges is totally misguided. Tony Benns ideas were crank back then, right now they're poison.

I don't think Corbyn is any worse than the Tories. He just isn't any better. I am sick of the messianic worship he is getting from the very people he is preparing to throw into a volcano as a sacrifice to his Brave New 1970s socialist order.

I applaud your view and it turns out that you have a very similar political outlook to my own. Very firmly centre-left. I don't subscribe to Corbyn enjoying "messianic worship", though. You even said so yourself when you intimated that his support would "evaporate" under certain conditions. Not really messianic, then?
I also don't subscribe to the view that Corbyn has a wholesale 1970s socialist order in manifesto. Really, it's much more of a fusion of modern ideas and ideals mixed in with old style principle socialist levers. Even though I didn't vote Labour, again, I'm coming to the conclusion that it has to be worth a try instead of the continued real terms depression. There is one part of the strong and stable mantra that I think is real. We are seeing a stable recession year-on-year-on-year, where, broadly, the 99% continue to suffer wage stagnation and real terms living standards drops. Meanwhile the 1% continue to suck the money upwards and continue to get richer. This is despicable and cannot continue indefinitely. Current government policy if it continues, I think poses far more of a risk of the UK turning out like Venezuela than a shift to Labour.

Thoughts?

Yours Aye

Mark H

 

[Rampant]

Corbyn's a Donkey , in fact EVERY single labourite who's rich is a hypocritical Donkey, socialists my butt:

"Comrade Corbyn owns a house worth £600,000 to £700,000. That's 3 times the national average. He has a gold-plated occupational pension after 30-odd years as an MP of around £1.6m. That is 18 times the average UK pension pot of £87,724. He earns a basic salary of £77,000, which is almost 3 times the average UK salary of £26,500 and provides him with a weekly income 4 times that of most pensioners.
On top of that he gets an annual £40,000 salary uplift for being Leader of the Opposition, even though he's not very good at leading or opposing, which is 26 times the average £1,500 bonus other UK workers get. "

He's a top grade CHAMPAGNE socialist and that's an oxymoron.

ALL Labour MPs should take home the MINIMUM wage to show solidarity between them and the poor they SHOULD be fighting for.

You have this upside down.

A race to the bottom is no race at all.

We should all aspire to bring *general* living standards up, not volunteer to place ourselves at the bottom.

Understand?

Yours Aye

Mark H

PS "Comrade" is a communist term. Communism is well removed from Socialism.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Corbyn's a Donkey , in fact EVERY single labourite who's rich is a hypocritical Donkey, socialists my butt:

"Comrade Corbyn owns a house worth £600,000 to £700,000. That's 3 times the national average. He has a gold-plated occupational pension after 30-odd years as an MP of around £1.6m. That is 18 times the average UK pension pot of £87,724. He earns a basic salary of £77,000, which is almost 3 times the average UK salary of £26,500 and provides him with a weekly income 4 times that of most pensioners.
On top of that he gets an annual £40,000 salary uplift for being Leader of the Opposition, even though he's not very good at leading or opposing, which is 26 times the average £1,500 bonus other UK workers get. "

He's a top grade CHAMPAGNE socialist and that's an oxymoron.

ALL Labour MPs should take home the MINIMUM wage to show solidarity between them and the poor they SHOULD be fighting for.

When did he buy his house?, Is he responsible for the inflation of house prices in London. The usual inane comment from someone grasping at straws.

Edit- re MPs wages, maybe you'd be in favour of Sinn Fein's policy of their elected reps only drawing the average industrial wage. The rest goes to the party for community uses etc.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You have this upside down.

A race to the bottom is no race at all.

We should all aspire to bring *general* living standards up, not volunteer to place ourselves at the bottom.

Understand?

Yours Aye

Mark H

PS "Comrade" is a communist term. Communism is well removed from Socialism.

When did he buy his house?, Is he responsible for the inflation of house prices in London. The usual inane comment from someone grasping at straws.

Edit- re MPs wages, maybe you'd be in favour of Sinn Fein's policy of their elected reps only drawing the average industrial wage. The rest goes to the party for community uses etc.

Leper Messiah hates anything resembling the left, but feels compelled to tell them what their policies and actions should be. He doesnt know the difference between socialist and communists, or policies in general, he just hates them and blames them for everything. Dont take it too seriously.

For the record, I feel everything should have access to decent, affordable champage.

 

[Fyrd Judge]

Jeremy Corbyn admits lying over train seat debacle after Sir Richard Branson releases CCTV of him through empty carriage.


Wake up the whole of the UK knows the truth so why are non UK nationals from the EU making up fake news THAT OCCURD IN 2016 ? (THANK GOD we are leaving the EU)

ooooOOOH looK, cORBYN the LIAR on a seat, in empty carriage...

Debunking the left wing lies and fake news and providing the truth...100% of the time...As usual. This is one reason why he lost the election, the main one being, no one one will ever in the UK vote for a communist to power


http://metro.co.uk/2016/08/23/virgi...or-and-twitter-is-having-a-field-day-6086007/

 

[FuzzySpider]

Skip forward to 13 minutes.

[video=youtube;NAzqmkAc9BM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAzqmkAc9BM[/video]

Corbyn is a false prophet.