Jim Sterling... Not a fan of VR

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Personally i think this is one of his most unfair, unbalanced pieces he has made to date.

Its not that i never disagree with him - i sometimes do - but normally i think he at least gives a fair shake to what ever he is critiquing.

but not here imo.
that said, he makes some very valid points on VR if you are considering dropping the cash.

My problem is he makes no mention of where VR shines, flight/space sims like elite dangerous and racing/driving sims like assetto corsa, pCARs, Euro/American truck sim

THIS imo is where VR is an easy sell and yet no mention at all.

And the price, well, i remember when a 42 inch plasma TV was £20k.. the thing is the prices will fall, an oculus ready official PC is now on sale for $500, already $450 cheaper than in january.

Some people spend close to £1000 on a racing wheel and pedals, others dont, and that is fine imo, it does not mean that a VR HMD are "privilege googles" which i realise he was being facetious but still......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_h6GYI8ddA

but... everything he says is valid, and i would say if you are NOT interested in cockpit games is certainly important listening.

 

[Caramel Clown]

Who is Jim Sterling? I see people talk about this guy like his word is the highest instance. Is this another youtuber with edgy attitude who hates things exclusively because people like them?

 

[PhanttoM]

<snip>
My problem is he makes no mention of where VR shines, flight/space sims like elite dangerous and racing/driving sims like assetto corsa, pCARs, Euro/American truck sim

THIS imo is where VR is an easy sell and yet no mention at all.
<snip>

Yeah, I think he simply hasn't played those kind of games. He does mostly small indie games and mainstream titles after all.
However, after doing that video - He did a video on a VR game called "Rigs Mechanized Combat League", in which he really liked the VR experience.

 

[Monk]

I wouldn't compare VR to televisions.

The TV is a staple of the modern home. It is widely available, mostly free of proprietary , has endless content available, does not require 100% engagement and, most of all, can be experienced with other people in various social situations.

VR is specific, proprietary, solitary, requires 100% physical attention, and is rife with crap tech demos. Sims are a great use of VR, and I personally love it, however, sims and VR will not be mainstream any time soon.

They just don't look like consumer products. They look like something my engineer buddy brings out of his basement from time to time.

Perhaps the next generation will turn things around...we'll see. But until it is more accessible and approachable, this is still going to be the rich nerd's purview.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Who is Jim Sterling? I see people talk about this guy like his word is the highest instance. Is this another youtuber with edgy attitude who hates things exclusively because people like them?

Sort of i guess. I like him tho. For the most part under his sarcastic, very english sense of humour he is generally fair imo. Not this time however imo.

 

[The Chairmaker]

I do think he has a point.

VR for me is something that is suited to certain niche games. Those are games were you are sat in a cockpit and are flying or driving something.

That excludes a whole host of current game genres.

As such VR will appeal largely to the sim crowd, who are not averse to spending big bucks for wheels, pedals, hotas setups and building sim pits.

For the mainstream though, VR is just a very big MEH, due mainly to the cost and hassle of getting everything set up, and the puke factor.

Take consolers. By their very nature these are people who want a low cost, easy to use, pick up and play, couch based experience. VR does not provide that at this present time.
That's not to say consolers wont buy VR, some will, but I don't think it will be mainstream.

If it doesn't become mainstream then games wont get designed around VR.

 

[YinYin]

I don't remember him even mentioning any sim games ...? If he didn't get to try any truly good seated games where game and reality match well the result is currently no surprise.

Really hope he does give Thumper a go in VR some time

 

[Kestril]

Personally i think this is one of his most unfair, unbalanced pieces he has made to date.

Its not that i never disagree with him - i sometimes do - but normally i think he at least gives a fair shake to what ever he is critiquing.

but not here imo.
that said, he makes some very valid points on VR if you are considering dropping the cash.

My problem is he makes no mention of where VR shines, flight/space sims like elite dangerous and racing/driving sims like assetto corsa, pCARs, Euro/American truck sim

THIS imo is where VR is an easy sell and yet no mention at all.

And the price, well, i remember when a 42 inch plasma TV was £20k.. the thing is the prices will fall, an oculus ready official PC is now on sale for $500, already $450 cheaper than in january.

Some people spend close to £1000 on a racing wheel and pedals, others dont, and that is fine imo, it does not mean that a VR HMD are "privilege googles" which i realise he was being facetious but still......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_h6GYI8ddA

but... everything he says is valid, and i would say if you are NOT interested in cockpit games is certainly important listening.

Well, think about a joystick. That's a niche product for flight sims. VR will be the same and naturally limited to driving/flight games because the spacial immersion meaningfully deepens the experience in those games. It would have been nice to see him mention the sim market, tho.

As far as expanding VR into "the the future!" I find myself agreeing with jim. There's not much it does that can add to your run-of-the-mill game that deepens the gameplay experience.

 

[milligna]

As far as expanding VR into "the the future!" I find myself agreeing with jim. There's not much it does that can add to your run-of-the-mill game that deepens the gameplay experience.

After a few hundred hours playing dozens of run of the mill games in really pleasing 3D via VorpX or Wii games in Dolphin VR, I have to disagree. It's been so enjoyable going through modded Skyrim, blasting around the wasteland on a motorcycle, or just going through the Bioshocks and experiencing those worlds in a fabulously surreal new way.

It's hard for cynics not to cynic, but the time to do these pieces passed a few years ago, really. It's already happening, doesn't need to take over the world in 3-6 months, and will continue being a growing slice of the entertainment industries for the foreseeable future. Doesn't matter if some people don't see the appeal or don't want to try it, it doesn't need universal acceptance.

I'm just glad we're in the age of consumer products now with billions of dollars being tossed at it from almost every massive tech giant on the planet. The tech is going to take huge leaps over the coming decade, and that competition will help tremendously on the hardware side while the devs figure out better ways to exploit it. The economy of scale will mean the tech will be way cheaper in 3-5 years, just another part of life competing for your entertainment dollar... and by that point there will be a nice library of content built up and even better injection drivers and mods to add VR support to old games.

We are already well past goofy youtube comments section-level brilliant insights about "the next Virtual Boy" or "it's 3DTV all over again!" As noted above, what it does for sims alone is a gamechanger that delivers more value than 20 doughy guys with red ties. I'm not really bothered Sterling isn't on board, he can be amusing but I don't find myself agreeing with his taste very often. A shame this one didn't at least offer some provocative food for thought -- it all seems so 2014. Like all of Rock, Paper, Shotgun's cutie pie sneering about VR... the cynics really need to up their game and make better arguments, because damn this tech is really fun and a dream come true for a guy that grew up playing Star Raiders and Elite and imagining it would one day be... exactly like it is now. With SO much potential and SO much left to explore, innovate, and expand on.

Sokay if Jim isn't keen, several years after the devkits -- I still grin like a loon late at night when I pop on the headset and am sitting in an Asp. Pixellated magic! Nothing the cynics have ever accomplished has remotely approached that childlike blast of wonder... So let Jim bellow and let Alice O'Connor whine about mussing up her hair, as Sun Ra put it:

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I do think he has a point.

VR for me is something that is suited to certain niche games. Those are games were you are sat in a cockpit and are flying or driving something.

That excludes a whole host of current game genres.

As such VR will appeal largely to the sim crowd, who are not averse to spending big bucks for wheels, pedals, hotas setups and building sim pits.

For the mainstream though, VR is just a very big MEH, due mainly to the cost and hassle of getting everything set up, and the puke factor.

Take consolers. By their very nature these are people who want a low cost, easy to use, pick up and play, couch based experience. VR does not provide that at this present time.
That's not to say consolers wont buy VR, some will, but I don't think it will be mainstream.

If it doesn't become mainstream then games wont get designed around VR.

i agree he has a point, but my beef is there was no balance..... telling half a truth is often worse than telling a lie imo.
I know a lot here have never heard of him, others have and dont like him anyway..... but, like other youtubers he has a following, much like total biscuit, and like it or not, many will take what he says as gospel - esp if they already have their mind half made up.

its like my old car...... it was heavy on fuel, high insurance, stupid tax... but what car reviewer would JUST mention those things and not mention it was fast, insane fun to drive and actually built like a brick and amazingly reliable.

I am a bit old fashioned myself - i dont really do facebook or social media but, like it or not the days of the printed videogame journalism is coming to an end imo, and digital journalism is only going to get bigger and more important to sales.... again , imo.
its all about context imo and Jim provided none in his critque.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I think it was well done video about potential pitfalls of VR, and how being surrounded by yes men doesn't really help technology. It is good to hear though that Sony VR is better, and it will push HTC and Oculus to produce better hardware.

I has never thought it will be ultimate gaming tool. It is just another way to experience games. As Jim correctly pointed out, game has to be good first, and then VR can come second. If game is no good, VR won't help much.

 

[hairychris]

Jim Sterling is generally fair*, and the points that I took away from this one is 1) the hardware needs to improve and 2) so do the games if VR is to be anything other than an expensive niche product.

His review is not aimed at folks with a "sim pit", so to speak, but to a far more general audience. And, to be honest, I agree with him as I am not interested in VR as this will involve a massive amount of expense currently (I'd need a whole new rig), I don't have much space at home, and I am not sure how well it will work for me as I do have eyesight problems.

Obviously for those people who are already using VR successfully the video might rub you up the wrong way. However for the vast majority of gamers/PC users VR has a long way to go until it's a "must have" piece of gear.

*I'm a fan of his content. It's definitely worth checking out his other videos as he's very much for the everyday consumer and against industry .

 

[Captain N]

First off, I didn't really watch the video. I just couldn't stand full 15 minutes of that ridiculous getup or the fake edgy "persona".

I did skip through and get the basic gist of his arguments. Basically the same stuff cynics have been repeating for a while, nothing that I haven't seen before.

VR isn't comparable to 3DTV, and it isn't comparable to previous iterations of motion controllers. Both of those technologies existed in a vacuum - they were able to do some cool things, but they didn't have the environment in which to use them. Having stereoscopy without the 360° surround of a HMD is pointless, just like motion controllers are pointless when you can't actually see what you're swinging at.

VR takes those two things and gives them both an environment in which they suddenly make sense. And not only that, but they become an essential, non-optional part of the full experience. VR makes little sense without motion controls, with a HMD-only setup having only a narrow spectrum of use cases. Flight and driving sims are among those, but even those need expensive specialist control setups as any sim enthusiast will tell you. Sims will probably remain a niche interest long after VR goes mainstream. Something like Onward and The Art of Fight are probably more representative of the kind of thing that will have the mainstream appeal to make VR fully take off among gamers.

People won't "have the room" for full VR? OK. I live in a little urban apartment that barely counts as a living space. I was able to make enough room for the Vive and I only had to throw out one couch which I never used anyway. I believe once the decision to buy the Vive is made, for most people it's much easier to clear out the space than they think. Very few of the objects we hoard in our homes are indispensable or can't be relocated. Once you understand what VR can do, it's a no-brainer to move some physical objects around to make space for this one thing that can turn the space magically to anything else, and like Tardis expand it into something much larger.

Will it replace, or "kill" traditional, flat-screen video games? Probably not. Not anymore than TV killed the radio, or the movie theatre, or books. It's a new medium of entertainment. The only thing it needs to do is to provide unique, awesome experiences that are impossible to reproduce in any other medium. And it already does that. Nearly every one those little experimental indie "tech demos" as some people derisively call them I have tried on the Vive have been something unique I haven't experienced before, which is more than I can say for 90% of the 60 euro AAA games I have played in the last 10 years, most of which have been only slight iterations on a handful of basic formulas with different graphics. Before I got the Vive I had no idea just how jaded I had become about video games. I knew I had become less enthusiastic about them than I was when I was younger, but VR made me remember what it was like to be genuinely excited about gaming.

It will also be the only medium that will be able to reproduce almost any other medium inside itself, without sacrificing anything important in the transition. And that will include most live performances, like theatre and concerts, which previously have been quite resistant to reproduction. Currently the screen resolution is a bit too low to sell it as a serious alternative to a video projector, but it will get better. Having a home theatre with a huge screen that takes next to no space will be a big selling point even to muggles who don't understand the unique nature of the things that VR brings to the table.

 

[Lockheart]

He did seem to be focused on the Playstion experience which to me looked like a lot of 'arcadey' type games that wouldn't really appeal to me (Shooting gallery type stuff Time Crisis and the like) but there is his injury or medical issues that may have influenced his opinion as well (herniated disc/s I believe). I have RSI and Back issues that and having that 'hefty hunk of plastic sweatbox' strapped to my head for sustained sessions did begin bother me somewhat. I only came back to it for Elite and by that stage Oculus and Frontier had stopped supporting the DK1. There is absolutely no way I can afford the retail version for quite some time now but I will wait for a price drop before forking out such a hefty amount of mullah again.

So in that respect I can see where he was coming from.

 

[Minoo Minou]

I watched it and thought it was quite fair; never tried VR though... Does it make sense?

 

[Frank]

I watched it and thought it was quite fair; never tried VR though... Does it make sense?

People who write comments about VR in threads are most likely interested in it even if they haven't tried it. I take it if you happen to be shopping in town and you see a VR unit demo, you'd try it to see what all the fuss is about?

Even though I'm a VR-vangelist I watched the video and a lot of it rings true. Of course you can make space in even the most pokiest of flats (mine for instance) for VIVE. When it's something you really want, you always find enough space or enough money, or enough time to set it up. It comes down to whether you think the price is worth paying.

I've got a Wii at home, and agree with him about motion controllers. The thing I hated most was when the game designers thought they had to use every function of the controller. I was playing a shooter one time and the action got to a bit where I had to row across a river. Suddenly the WiiMote that my muscle memory had gotten used to thinking of as a gun got all confused and the game told me that I now had an oar in my hand and that I should use it to row. The game was full of these incongruous uses of the WiiMote, and each one shattered the illusion of just playing the game.

I agree with him that the gameplay comes first, and that the games should be more than tech demos of wow moments, and that the best VR games are ones that you could also play in rectang-o-vision.

Where I disagree is that the games are just as good viewed on a rectangle. The difference between playing Elite on a monitor, and when sitting in a cockpit in VR is just too vast to describe in a post. The best way is to see that difference yourself. If you see a VR headset being demoed someplace, you should go check it out and see with your own eyes.