Hardware & Technical Joystick recommendations Thrustmaster T16000 versus VKB Gladiator

[Tycondero]

I would like to upgrade my joystick from a logitech attack 3 (yes, the old one) to a newer a better joystick. I have been looking around for awhile and once bought and returned a Saitek X52, which I could not get to work under windows 10 due to crappy software and set-up instructions (really it was terrible). In addition, I think that I can actually do without a throttle as I do not have much room on my desk anyway. Therefore, I would like to ask you guys what you would recommend. I know there are relatively few options on the market, but from what I have seen people seem to go for the Thrustmaster T16000 a lot. However, I personally find the VKB Gladiator (or known as Speedlink airrow flightstick in Europe) an interesting option as well. I know that the Gladiator is almost twice as expensive, so it ought to be better (I hope), but is the additional cost warranted? For the money of the Gladiator you could potentially also purchase two T16000s and have a dual set-up.

Any recommendations to go for one of these, or are there even other great joysticks <100 dollars/euros that I even forgot to consider?

 

[Jaiotu]

I've played with the Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS, Saitek X55 and, most recently, the Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS.

The T.16000M joystick is a pleasure to fly with. Incredibly precise even without installing the "H.E.A.R.T." software.

Amazon has these on sale for just $107.19 at the moment. That's both the Joystick and the Throttle though.

 

[DukeIronHand]

I've played with the Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS, Saitek X55 and, most recently, the Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS.

The T.16000M joystick is a pleasure to fly with. Incredibly precise even without installing the "H.E.A.R.T." software.

Amazon has these on sale for just $107.19 at the moment. That's both the Joystick and the Throttle though.

^^^This
Great stick. Used them for years.

 

[Rampant]

I recently upgraded from a T-Flight HOTAS - which I liked - to a new T.16000 HOTAS system. The T.16000 is a lovely joystick. Very nice precision, smooth, nicely self-centring, but not too stiff to hold off-centre.

If you were to go for the joystick only, I'd suggest that you'd probably have enough buttons for most things, BUT - there are only 4 buttons on the stick top, plus 1 POV hat, which may be a bit limiting. There are 12 more buttons on the base, but if you are using keyboard as well as joystick it might be a bit of an issue moving left hand between joystick base and keyboard for certain functions.

May I suggest that if you *are* also using a keyboard, then you can totally dispense with the keyboard in favour of a HOTAS throttle (except for text messaging, of course... I have my keyboard tucked under my monitor bridge... when I need to type messages, I can do so by stretching forwards, etc...)

All the best

Mark H

 

[Bryan K]

I've never even seen or heard of the VKB Gladiator, and I didn't see it when searching Amazon for a new stick late last year, but the Thrustmaster T.16000 with TWCS bundle is what I use now, and apart from a bit of stickiness in the throttle, it's brilliant.

Sooooo many buttons and hats! The TWCS throttle has 3 hats on the side, plus the one on the stick itself. There are 12 buttons on the base of the stick, and a handy little on the side of the throttle that I use for sensor zoom, plus so many more buttons and paddles and such. It took me a couple months to figure out what to do with them all. If you get the bundle, be sure to buy some Velcro strips to fasten the throttle to your table, as it can sometimes slide around, especially if the table in question is a cheap folding one set up next to your chair (speaking from experience).

I'd still love to switch back to my plagued X52 Pro, but the drivers are a death sentence to my rig, for whatever reason. I still think it had a better overall feel to it. That said, I wouldn't give those drivers to my worst enemy. Thrustmaster tech actually works properly, despite being less interesting to look at.

 

[Stern Winter]

I've been using a T16000M (the green one) since standard Beta (~2½ years - over 13 weeks non stop game time), and certainly have got my money's worth.

The stick (X/Y) is still very precise, but mechanical wear seems to be setting in, as it drifts very slightly around centre.
The main trigger electrical switch is also not working properly. I'm using it as "enter" in the menus, and I often have to press several times for it to register.

Apart from that, I'm very satisfied and will replace it with the new T16000M FCS (the orange one) soon. Apart from a better 4-way hat, it's basically the same joystick.


I've never tried the Speedlink airrow flightstick, but looking at the manufacturers website does not instil a lot of trust in the product. There is hardly any information about the joysticks and the downloadable manuals are just as bad. It's as if they don't want to sell their products.

 

[cyberus]

I have t16000. Very good stick. Recently replaced with vkb cobra. Never looked back.
Don't know about gladiator. But cobra is very amazing stick

 

[Calico Jack]

I was considering ordering a VKB Gladiator II (with the improved trigger) from Amazon.com as they will ship to Europe, but there are none in stock at the moment.

If you are not using a throttle, the Gladiator has very few buttons so you will need to use your keyboard a lot.

 

[the100thmonkey]

I just got a T16000.M yesterday, and am impressed by the action of the stick - very smooth, very precise with a wide gimbal. It could really do with a second hat on top of the stick (there really aren't enough buttons on the stick at all), and it's a little light, but those are my only criticisms.

 

[iSteel]

I've got my Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS HOTAS on january. I love it!

Works flawlessly without any software with Windows 10 and ED. I have buttons mapped in away that I don't need keyboard at all during my play. Well, in the galaxy map I use mouse most of the time but it would be doable to just use stick.



Though, I tried to use the T.A.R.G.E.T software to get more buttons and to try curves but I just don't understand how to get it to work...

 

[Para Handy]

I have not tried the Gladiator but I have used the T16000M stick and felt it had too many drawbacks - too stiff for me, not enough buttons on the stick, buttons on the base are awkwardly placed and worst of all was button 2 (sec fire normally) awkward to use, changing sec fire didn't help as button 2 still in the way.

I have been trying out a Defender Cobra M5 (which is a VKB stick?) and although people rave about it, I find it very underwhelming - firstly it has virtually no resistance at all and since it is so sensitive you need to set dead-zones which is a pita, secondly the fire buttons are weird the second button/trigger is underneath the first button/trigger meaning for me you either fire one or the other or end up with both at once, I just couldn't get used to it. The three-mode switch changes every other button on the stick except triggers 1 and 2 and the coolie-hat, so the POV hat, pinky switch and 2 red buttons on the top have three different functions. I could go on about thinness of the grip, huge range, etc etc. I will probably keep this, rather than ship it back to Czech Republic as it might be useful purely for pew-pew?

Both those sticks are hall-effect in the x and y axes but to me are deficient in those several ways (and other points I have not covered).

I have ended up using CHPro Throttle and CH Fighterstick - the throttle is superb with loads of switches, hats and an analogue mini-joystick, the Fighterstick has every button and hat you could wish for and makes up for it's lack of a twist axis by using the pinky switch as a Yaw-to-Roll press-to-hold button, so when held in, roll (Y-axis) inputs provide yaw signals. Unfortunately these items are each above the OP's price-point and for a bit more you can buy a Warthog - the size of the CH setup makes it better for me than the Warthog which is just too massive for me (amongst other drawbacks I found in using it).

Judging by the Cobra M5 model, I think you will find the Gladiator a very well-made stick. If you can get used to the switches and layout then you might find it a great stick for E D - as long as you buy it from Amazon you can try it out and if it isn't to your taste then send it back for a refund.

 

[shadragon]

I would recommend the T.16000M HOTAS, but if you are just getting the joystick, get a Logitech 3D Extreme. Cheaper, more buttons and better laid out with secondary fire button under the thumb.

 

[Tycondero]

Thanks a lot over all the recommendations. It seems most people would go with the Thrustmaster. Still does anyone have hands on experience with the Gladiator? And how do people regard the M5 Cobra?

 

[CommanderC2121]

Out of curiousity, are there any benefits to buying a cheaper HOTAS thats $30 vs one that is $200. Quality aside, obviously

 

[Mohrgan]

I bought and returned the T-Master T16000M FCS HOTAS because of the stick. It felt good, and worked well but, it just has a terrible button Count/Placement. I ordered just the Throttle from T-master, and paired it with my tried and true Logitech 3D Pro. I am a happy Commander. The Throttle works excellently alone, or paired with a random Stick. The 3D Pro is much more useful in game than the T 16000M

 

[Tycondero]

I bought and returned the T-Master T16000M FCS HOTAS because of the stick. It felt good, and worked well but, it just has a terrible button Count/Placement. I ordered just the Throttle from T-master, and paired it with my tried and true Logitech 3D Pro. I am a happy Commander. The Throttle works excellently alone, or paired with a random Stick. The 3D Pro is much more useful in game than the T 16000M

That is funny to hear. I heard that some people consider those "budget" joysticks close to junk, though I myself have been using the Attack 3 (its predecessor) for years now, but it now starts to show its age and thus it is time for something new. Some say the T16000M is a lot more accurate and doesn't have the drift that the logitech seems to have. I guess using fixed weapons in game remains a challenge for any joystick user, or does the accuracy of the T16000M really help there?

 

[Cliché]

I bought and returned the T-Master T16000M FCS HOTAS because of the stick. It felt good, and worked well but, it just has a terrible button Count/Placement. I ordered just the Throttle from T-master, and paired it with my tried and true Logitech 3D Pro. I am a happy Commander. The Throttle works excellently alone, or paired with a random Stick. The 3D Pro is much more useful in game than the T 16000M

I loved my Logitech 3D Extreme Pro, but it wore out in about 6 months. I replaced it with the T16000M, and I felt it was a much better feeling stick and has lasted a year and a half with no problems. I can't argue that I miss the extra buttons on the stick, and the buttons on the base are terribly shaped and located. It was usable until I got VR, and then the base buttons were worthless. I added bumps to all the buttons, and I can at least now feel and press the correct ones. The new FCS version should be better, but the layout is still bad. Voice Attack saves the day, along with a good throttle with lots of extra buttons - I only use the stick for flying, shooting, and navigating panels (base buttons are backups).

 

[MottiKhan]

I replaced my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro with a T16000 (old green one) some time ago. I love the stick even though it lacks the buttons that the Logitech had. The control is very precise and smooth. I've had a bit of drift on it and it's starting to show some wear, but a tiny deadband solved the drift.

I'm still using the old X52 throttle and love it as well. But with the stick starting to show its age, I might go for the T16000 HOTUS as a replacement.

 

[Morbad]

VKB Gladiator II is on my shortlist to try, but I can't see favoring it for Elite: Dangerous due to the lack of buttons available on it.

I guess using fixed weapons in game remains a challenge for any joystick user, or does the accuracy of the T16000M really help there?

Never had an issue using fixed weapons with my CH stuff or the T16000M FCS I bought for my wife.

 

[syngyne]

VKB Gladiator II is on my shortlist to try, but I can't see favoring it for Elite: Dangerous due to the lack of buttons available on it.

You'll want to keep an eye out for the Gunfighter and the Kosmosimov grip they're eventually releasing for it.

Alternatively, check out Virpil's MongoosT-50. Based on a modern fighter stick, and has an all metal gimbal system like VKB's offerings.