Elite / Frontier Jump Gate Vote

[basilb]

To jump gate(JG) or not

Thought I should start a thread about this contentious issue since there were so many responses to it within the elite 4 game ideas thread.

People have said J.G.'s would make gameplay too linear. From what I suggested though, they would only act to supplement the ease of travel between aligned systems, and would not affect the need to 'self-jump' to other groupings of star systems. They could also act to add gameplay depth, with either trading or storylines (for example you could self-jump to a system, carrying mechanical parts that are needed for a J.G. that is being constructed there).

Anyway let me know why you think J.G.'s should or shouldn't be put into Elite4.

 

[Matt]

Dont think they should be part of the game - they weren't in the previous 3 versions so why bother now? In the previous versions hyperdrives were cheap and small....why do you want to wildly change the nature of the game?

I dont think it will add anything to the gameplay either (other than dull build/repair/destroy missions) to be honest.

 

[VR jefranklin18]

This may have been better as a poll

As previously mentioned, I am in favour of jump gates being in as long as there are other means to jump between systems. That being said, there is no way that DB would start forcing a linear structure on to his game, so if they are in it will not be at the expense of some other means of inter-stellar travel.

I guess time will tell what Frontier think.

 

[Steve]

I'll stick my oar in and say definitely no jumpgates
One good reason I can think of is the ability to force a misjump to throw pursuers off the scent. I guess trying to force a misjump in a jumpgate will just get you a hefty fine from Intragalactic Jumpgates plc

 

[VR jefranklin18]

I'll stick my oar in and say definitely no jumpgates
One good reason I can think of is the ability to force a misjump to throw pursuers off the scent. I guess trying to force a misjump in a jumpgate will just get you a hefty fine from Intragalactic Jumpgates plc

Yes, but if you are using a jumpgate then you are in a Kestrel airfighter or similar so you're not going to be doing trading runs, so the need to misjump is diminished.

Imagine the scenario: Imperial scum launch a sneak attack on one of the outer reaches of the Federation (using capital class* vessels to carry the Imperial fighter fleet into the sector). The Federation response is to draft in every available fighter to protect the system. A combination of capital class vessels and jump gates could be used to ensure the Federation reserves get there fast enough. The overwhelming numbers of the Federation fighters totally decimate the Imperial fighter force and destroy their capital vessel.

Hmm. I may need to duck off to the bathroom

* By capital class, I mean huge vessels that allow smaller (say up to Asp) vessels to land on them and be carried through hyperspace.

 

[caol]

I think jumpgates would be fine but they'd have to be rare and special, e.g.:

- to jump between galaxies.

- to connect the Federal capital with the Imperial one.

- to go to and from Thargoid space.

- just along established trade routes in the Core Systems (remember the little pink trade route lines from FE2?)

- able to get you somewhere faster than your own jump drive (but you have to pay for it).
- able to get you further than your normal jump drive.
(otherwise why use them at all)

 

[caol]

Here is the poll someone suggested!

(it has been merged into this topic - thanks to mbrookes for that!)

 

[redstar1]

Multiplayer: Yes
Single Player: No

 

[Kipper]

If you were going to construct a massive device capable of sending ships into hyperspace or wherever, where would you put it?

If you put it on the edge of a system, it would be inconvenient for users and susceptible to being attacked, damaged or generally misused.

If you put it in the core of a system, near a base, etc... from a gameplay point of view, you can go from base to base without ever leaving a protected/policed zone.

Seems to me that you'd have to crack 'portable' hyperspace engines before you could make such an invention (otherwise where is the gate at the other end?) so if you have got cheap portable technology, why would you invest in an immovable, giant version?

Technology has strived thus far to become cheaper, more compact, more functional, and more useful. Not the other way around!!

 

[caol]

But static jump gates would be rare (possibly only one or two pairs) and much more powerful than an onboard jump drive, like I said above...

 

[Michael Brookes]

I've merged the poll with the original thread so the discussion can be kept together.

Michael

 

[Deep Thought]

Personally my stance on Jumpgates in the Elite universe is that they do not fit in at all really.

Some reasons why, is that with the advent of Hyperdrives/Hyperspace the point of having a jump gate is rendered somewhat irrelivant. I would imagine that maintaining a gate-system would cost considerably much more energy-wise than hyperdrives on ships, or carrying smaller craft on larger transports to move them from system to system.

Jumpgates present a point of weakness security wise, and would make tasty targets for terrorist organizations, pirates, corporations, etc as some means of disrupting the economy/stability in a region, and in a war I'm sure the gates would be some of the first things to get taken out if they afford the opposition any sort of conveinece.

As mentioned before, Jumpgates make space feel constrictive boxlike and small, filled with set boundaries, and little means or reason to go out of your way to explore, or just roam about freely.

Now I'm not completely against them in having them appear as artificats, perhaps even functional ones of a race long gone away, something to exploit/explore outside of the norm, but very rare and not providing any real advantage over hyperspace other than instant fuel savings from one point to another, or perhaps a shortcut across a vast interstellar distance. Who knows...

Regardless, if it boils down to it I say no to Jumpgates in Elite.

 

[Cyborg]

no place for them...

Hi Folks,

Think about it....please...
Jumpgate, Jumpgate, Jumpgate...
What will you do with them?
The System rotate all the time...distances between Planets will change all the time... were will you build them to bring a bit of linearity into the game???
Free space isn’t possible, and one Planet’s Orbit???? Like a bus-station???
Walk to the bus and wait for it???

That’s fine for unrealistic quadratic games like Freelancer or X-Series but not
for the Mother of realistic Space-Sims.... Elite

I am sorry.

Greetz

 

[DeLeiros]

I like the idea of jump gates, but only if used in the right place/right time. I think someone commented in another thread how they could add to the game-play if deployed properly. To me it's kinda like comparing traveling by train or by car...they both have benefits/costs, and its that idea of having to make a good choice at different times that appeals to me...I like the idea of having to choose how to travel, as it adds an extra flaour. Rather than having to always do one or the other.

So to give a scenario. I could go from Barnards star to Sol very quickly by jump gate, but it would cost a fixed fee of say 30 credits, plus 1 extra credit per tonne. That way it only makes sense to use that system if you need to get there quick or if your a BIG cruise ship and the pay off of using that system compared to how much haluage space you save on the drvies pays off. Also means that the trading costs between main systems are squeezed...which makes sense to me, cos realistically the main trading routes would operate on narrow margins.

Alternatively, you could jump from Barnards star to one of the lesser systems (soz, haven't got a map in front of me, but basically something not on the main trading routes). No jump gates, as they are more expensive to maintain, and because the big haulage ships won't want to regularly visit, due to a lower population etc, they aren't set up...or there isn't a 'treaty' between systems to establish a trade route. This would then make it more worthwhile to go to minor systems if you're a small ship, but more risky due to more pirates about. More gain, but more risk involved. Adds even more choice to the game.

As for where you'd placed them, thats pretty easy...think 3D. Most planets rotate around a sun within a fairly flat disc...i.e. they are reasonably within a plane. Something to do with the suns rotation pulling them into line with its equator I think??? So if you want to place a jump gate thats in equi-distance to many inhabited planets at all times, sinmply place it at about 1 AU above or below the poles of that particular sun.

 

[basilb]

Nice solution Deleiros.

People who think the addition of jump gates would make the game linear, through what they have said so far on here, are coming across as idiots. In a game like GTA3:San Andreas, do you think it makes the game more linear by including roads?

For all intents and purposes jump gates would act as routes between star systems in the same way as roads do between towns/cities. Taking this comparison further, a ship with a hyperdrive would be able to go anywhere you want to take it, much like a 4x4 off road vehicle is suitable for all terrain travel.
Opposite to this, a low riding sports car or cheap basic car would not be able to travel over rough terrain, and have to stick to using roads. In much the same way a kestrel or non-hyperdrive equipped ship would only be able to travel between star-systems via jumpgates.

 

[Bounder]

I second DeLeiros and basilb - it could offer a trade-off on major routes. It might be worthwhile when trading valuable goods to dump the hyperdrive & go for the extra cargo space for instance. I don't see why they couldn't be in orbit around the main planets - they'd just be big satelites. Or maybe in the same stellar orbit as the main planet, if it had to be further away for safety reasons or whatever - this would be the safest & most efficient location for a ship with minimum engine power and weaponry.

Another alternative; I think someone mentioned elsewhere making black holes portals to other galaxies... A jump gate might be an handy way to tap into the existing, natural wormhole networks, without having to travel to the nearest black hole. This might entail alighting from a small choice of other established gates, or through a myriad of other black/white holes or whatever... Or maybe the same idea but with alternative universes, having different physical properties, scales, objects & colours... i guess that's gettin a bit carried away tho'...

 

[Cyborg]

Sorry I am confused...

Hi Folks,

I see small ships like the osprey or Falcon in Elite IV are more an interplanetary
Taskforce or Marine "Air"fighter witch carried by Capital vessel’s like Cruisers or Carriers (maybe your own Carrier) (simply small, fast, and deadly), than ships witch should use Jump gates (trade routes), because 10 tons of cargo for trading isn’t very much and it is not the job they are build for....

I think you should be able to buy some kind of Launch modules or Hangar upgrades for your Anaconda or your Panther Clipper to store some of these Attack Fighters, witch you can Fly by your self, or let them defence you. (Crew necessary)....


other post...

Perhaps...
For Jump via Hyperspace, a target is needed...
The Sun(s) are great targets, but a bit Hot
so we take a second big Mass and calculate again...
We target a point between the two biggest Masses in a System.
Then, every System gets an arrival point (or two...2 Suns...3...)
That’s a Jump gate without a gate...(one way)
The other way...it’s up to you...jump were you want...


Greetz

 

[Linwig]

Jump gates?! I don't think the beautifully realised universe that we have come to know and love from earlier titles needs any cheap and cheerful jump gates! Burn the jump gates! We hates them!

 

[Matt]

Jump gates would negate the limitation of the ships like the lifter etc. Cheap etc with the tradeoff being no hyperspace drive or no cargo etc. All of a sudden that doesn't matter any more etc.

Personally I like the idea of some craft not being good enough for inter-system travel.

 

[caol]

As for where you'd placed them, thats pretty easy...think 3D. Most planets rotate around a sun within a fairly flat disc...i.e. they are reasonably within a plane. Something to do with the suns rotation pulling them into line with its equator I think??? So if you want to place a jump gate thats in equi-distance to many inhabited planets at all times, sinmply place it at about 1 AU above or below the poles of that particular sun.

But then the jump gate would still orbit the sun but at a plane 90 degrees to the orbital plane of the rest of the planets.

People who think the addition of jump gates would make the game linear, through what they have said so far on here, are coming across as idiots. In a game like GTA3:San Andreas, do you think it makes the game more linear by including roads?

Nice one basilb - you're quite right!

black holes portals to other galaxies...

Isn't a black hole just a big star that has collapsed in on itself and has become so massive that it's gravitational force sucks in all its planets and any other surrounding stars and matter and in fact light itself, which is why it's black? If that's the case then going into a black hole would mean that you were crushed into a tiny point. Even if the matter that you were once comprised of was spat out into another universe you wouldn't still be alive.

Jump gates would negate the limitation of the ships like the lifter etc. Cheap etc with the tradeoff being no hyperspace drive or no cargo etc. All of a sudden that doesn't matter any more etc.

Personally I like the idea of some craft not being good enough for inter-system travel.

OK so maybe there are ships, e.g. the Lifter, that aren't built for hyperspace travel and will be destroyed if attempting to go through a jump gate or just refused entry...