Jump Gates

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

It's been suggested before. Have multiple CGs run by a ridiculously wealthy faction (Like Sirius Corp) to create a tubular jumpgate about a kilometer in diameter and several kilometers long, whereby ships can pass between very large distances. There would be an expensive toll to use it, say, 500 credits per tonne of ship mass, and it would only have a single exit, at another linked jump gate. You can't carry cargo, either.

What made me think of this is the current horrible travel time to Maia from Asellus Primus. The travel time does make space feel big at first, but now I'm tabbed out for most of my gameplay, and the travel times really stop me from playing much anymore. If I could get from Maia to a system near Sol/Alioth/Achenar quickly, I'd definitely be playing more.

Maybe this could be an advancement taken from the analysis of the Antares wreck, by Sirius Corp. Fly Safe.

 

[Lestat]

I think Frontier already said no on jump gates. It been suggested many times.

 

[Chrystoph]

I can understand their logic, and the fact that it is not in keeping with established lore, but I would think that this or something similar would be good from the perspective of concentrating players more readily.

Even a population of 1.4 million is spread pretty thin in the bubble, much less in an entire galaxy.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

I can understand their logic, and the fact that it is not in keeping with established lore, but I would think that this or something similar would be good from the perspective of concentrating players more readily.

Even a population of 1.4 million is spread pretty thin in the bubble, much less in an entire galaxy.

If Sirius Corp would produce it, it wouldn't need a lore backstory because Frontier would be creating a lore backstory. Maybe this could be an advancement taken from the analysis of the Antares wreck.

 

[Arry]

We have jump gates? I would say that many of your clients, have seen the re-buy screen; many systems away.

Gates that can move us multi-systems at a time, have to come with a penalty and not just cost.

 

[Lestat]

Player can extend their jump range by minerals they extract from planets right now.

 

[Bacalao]

I've been thinking about this too, it only makes sense that a technology like this would be developed asap after FSDs. Like a big stationary FSD booster (it is somewhat reminiscent of the mass relays from Mass Effect). Even if they were very limited to a dozen or so in all of inhabited space, and yes, quite expensive. I like the idea of cost being based on ship mass, makes the bigger ships a bit more expensive to use. You could do all kinds of fun stuff with it too. As you suggest, a CG to get each one created (or each pair if you wanted to go down that route) and then you could do future developments with faction control, sabotage etc that would bring them in and out of service/increase quality of service/change jump routes.

It would increase player quality of life, provide options for travel, provide a catalyst for player interaction and future gameplay opportunities, all positive things. The only negative is that players would spend less time traversing the bubble when going from one side to the other, which as you pointed out, is generally spent alt-tabbed/second screen to youtube or the forums.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

Player can extend their jump range by minerals they extract from planets right now.

I'm talking hundreds of light years sling shots. Besides, mineral collection is very difficult unless you're very experienced, or use the forums. It's not like you can head to any planet, take 5 minutes, and be able to make enough top-level jumps to get to Maia quickly.

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I've been thinking about this too, it only makes sense that a technology like this would be developed asap after FSDs. Like a big stationary FSD booster (it is somewhat reminiscent of the mass relays from Mass Effect). Even if they were very limited to a dozen or so in all of inhabited space, and yes, quite expensive. I like the idea of cost being based on ship mass, makes the bigger ships a bit more expensive to use. You could do all kinds of fun stuff with it too. As you suggest, a CG to get each one created (or each pair if you wanted to go down that route) and then you could do future developments with faction control, sabotage etc that would bring them in and out of service/increase quality of service/change jump routes.

It would increase player quality of life, provide options for travel, provide a catalyst for player interaction and future gameplay opportunities, all positive things. The only negative is that players would spend less time traversing the bubble when going from one side to the other, which as you pointed out, is generally spent alt-tabbed/second screen to youtube or the forums.

Concerning sabotage, I think the size of the things means we're only going to see a few pairs, between frontier systems (Quince, 17 Draconis, Maia, etc) and Sol/Achenar/Alioth. The cost of them means the federation/alliance/empire are probably going to be defending them with a lot of might.

Do you have any suggestions for my expense idea? 500 cr/t means a Sidewinder will be able to pass through for only 13,000 credits, whereas a Type 9 fully fit might be paying 600,000 credits or more.

 

[metatheurgist]

It takes about half an hour for me to travel 500 LY and that's in a Python. For the occasional relocation I think that's OK. It gives meaning to territory. I can't be killing people in Fed space in one minute and killing people in Imp space the next. I have to make a commitment to where I'm going to be.

 

[Bacalao]

I'm talking hundreds of light years sling shots. Besides, mineral collection is very difficult unless you're very experienced, or use the forums. It's not like you can head to any planet, take 5 minutes, and be able to make enough top-level jumps to get to Maia quickly.

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Concerning sabotage, I think the size of the things means we're only going to see a few pairs, between frontier systems (Quince, 17 Draconis, Maia, etc) and Sol/Achenar/Alioth. The cost of them means the federation/alliance/empire are probably going to be defending them with a lot of might.

Do you have any suggestions for my expense idea? 500 cr/t means a Sidewinder will be able to pass through for only 13,000 credits, whereas a Type 9 fully fit might be paying 600,000 credits or more.

I was thinking sabotage on a more CG level. Sometime down the line some terrorist cell sacks one and we gotta fight them out of there or something along those lines. Maybe attack their ships and steal intel reports and blow them up, turn them in and then the NPC good guys take them false intel instead. Lots you could do.

I think around 500cr per ton sounds good, it's not so high as to be inaccessible to new players in small ships but high enough that it's an actual cost for big ships.

 

[Lestat]

I heard this topic over and over. One thing that scares people. Some people using this to blocking other people from using it. Making Jump Gates useless unless you are solo mode.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

It takes about half an hour for me to travel 500 LY and that's in a Python. For the occasional relocation I think that's OK. It gives meaning to territory. I can't be killing people in Fed space in one minute and killing people in Imp space the next. I have to make a commitment to where I'm going to be.

That's well and good for intra-bubble operations, but Maia is pretty far away. You need either huge fuel tanks or a fuel scoop to get there, and you can't change much anything about your ship. And, the travel time. Opening gates would be a great way to have a centralized player influx into a (beautiful) foreign space where an entirely new faction dynamic can occur, along with opening fantastic lore pathways for the first (relative) deep-space colonization effort since we left Sol.

 

[DocLooshkin]

Hello, Hagglebeard.

I hate to disagree with you, since you're a terribly nice pirate, but... no.

Jump gates can and often do work well in games that are designed and built around them, but they're problematic for ED. If you look at every work of SF out there, jump gates are almost invariably articulated as being the product of incomprehensibly-strange aliens or ancient, long-departed civilisations. The reason for this is the same for every writer: it's far too powerful to put in the hands of any remotely-normal humanlike characters in the narrative. If they can do this, why can't they do that? The few works that deviate from this have to be designed very carefully to avoid killing the story's overall plausibility.

In ED's case, the community desire for feature creep would hit almost the instant it was announced - and with the momentum of a falling mountain. First Maia, then Robigo, this star, that star, Sagittarius A*, the GMC, Andromeda... in short order, the entire universe becomes psychologically tiny, even if FD only ever implements the one jump gate. Can you honestly see it going any other way?

As for Maia... now, I love Maia, it's a great place to visit - I think I'm listed as friendly with all the factions in it, apart from the Ant-Hill Mob - but it's also slap-bang in the middle of some kind of dirty great alien infestation. I really don't want it to be functionally any closer to Shinrarta Dezhra than it is at present, thank you. A jump gate is the very last thing I want to see appear at Maia. I don't imagine the authorities at Sol, Achenar, Alioth or, indeed, Sirius would be any more enthused by the idea than I am.

No offense, old chap, but in the event that Sirius Corp, another faction, or the alien things themselves start to build a jump gate, I rather think we'll all be out in force to make sure it doesn't get finished, along with as much thermo-kinetic prejudice as we can bring to bear.

 

[metatheurgist]

That's well and good for intra-bubble operations, but Maia is pretty far away. You need either huge fuel tanks or a fuel scoop to get there, and you can't change much anything about your ship. And, the travel time. Opening gates would be a great way to have a centralized player influx into a (beautiful) foreign space where an entirely new faction dynamic can occur, along with opening fantastic lore pathways for the first (relative) deep-space colonization effort since we left Sol.

The distance to Maia is around 500LY. In the interests of station repair I moved meta-alloys from Maia to Eravate, 440LY each way. It's not that bad. A large fuel scoop is a must since that's where you spend most of your time. Again, I don't think it's unreasonable.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

Hello, Hagglebeard.

I hate to disagree with you, since you're a terribly nice pirate, but... no.

Jump gates can and often do work well in games that are designed and built around them, but they're problematic for ED. If you look at every work of SF out there, jump gates are almost invariably articulated as being the product of incomprehensibly-strange aliens or ancient, long-departed civilisations. The reason for this is the same for every writer: it's far too powerful to put in the hands of any remotely-normal humanlike characters in the narrative. If they can do this, why can't they do that? The few works that deviate from this have to be designed very carefully to avoid killing the story's overall plausibility.

In ED's case, the community desire for feature creep would hit almost the instant it was announced - and with the momentum of a falling mountain. First Maia, then Robigo, this star, that star, Sagittarius A*, the GMC, Andromeda... in short order, the entire universe becomes psychologically tiny, even if FD only ever implements the one jump gate. Can you honestly see it going any other way?

As for Maia... now, I love Maia, it's a great place to visit - I think I'm listed as friendly with all the factions in it, apart from the Ant-Hill Mob - but it's also slap-bang in the middle of some kind of dirty great alien infestation. I really don't want it to be functionally any closer to Shinrarta Dezhra than it is at present, thank you. A jump gate is the very last thing I want to see appear at Maia. I don't imagine the authorities at Sol, Achenar, Alioth or, indeed, Sirius would be any more enthused by the idea than I am.

No offense, old chap, but in the event that Sirius Corp, another faction, or the alien things themselves start to build a jump gate, I rather think we'll all be out in force to make sure it doesn't get finished, along with as much thermo-kinetic prejudice as we can bring to bear.

Yeah, I see your reasoning. I imagined it as a stationary super-powered frameshift drive, because it's mass is huge, but the power creep is definitely going to be a problem. :c

 

[Vyzeerg]

The time and resources needed to build multiple of these gates could be a turn off, giving the tech the ships already have to move around. If that guy can travel 500ly in 30min, then that's the point? Some people need that time to get to work IRL. It's quite insignificant, especially for such a huge distance.

Let's say the gates are built and functional, it would be a double edged sword as you only need to lose control over one single gate, then your enemies have a shortcut right into your territory. Not like they can't invest 30/60 min to simply move there in the first place. Beside, the humans are way too divided and auto destructive to effectively use such tech.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

The time and resources needed to build multiple of these gates could be a turn off, giving the tech the ships already have to move around. If that guy can travel 500ly in 30min, then that's the point? Some people need that time to get to work IRL. It's quite insignificant, especially for such a huge distance.

Let's say the gates are built and functional, it would be a double edged sword as you only need to lose control over one single gate, then your enemies have a shortcut right into your territory. Not like they can't invest 30/60 min to simply move there in the first place. Beside, the humans are way too divided and auto destructive to effectively use such tech.

Well, this could potentially launch capital ships to far regions of space in minutes rather than the weeks it takes currently, but that's purely lore. I get it, the suggestion is kill. :c

 

[Vyzeerg]

Well, this could potentially launch capital ships to far regions of space in minutes rather than the weeks it takes currently, but that's purely lore. I get it, the suggestion is kill. :c

Good point, I kinda forgot about those.

 

[who?]

I heard this topic over and over. One thing that scares people. Some people using this to blocking other people from using it. Making Jump Gates useless unless you are solo mode.

Maybe a variant on jump-gates then - a jump-ship. Basically FD build a ship around a standard station dock, and Cmdrs can dock inside it. At certain defined times it jumps to [faraway place] where everyone launches and explores/mines like crazy. It jumps back on a fixed interval, so if you're not back and locked down in time... you're stranded. I think it'd add a real sense of drama to have a big jump like that, and operating on a strict clock.

The ship could have standard big turrets like stations, to clear out any attackers.

 

[Flimley]

That would be excellent. And even if just one jump gate Is owned by each faction. Say in their home system, we could have the option of going there to jump hundreds of lights years or just standard hyperspace.
Would make a nice visual to visit also just to see these grand structures.