Hardware & Technical Just in time for the Alpha

Morbad

Morbad
New system is finally complete...sixteen months after I started building and rebuilding it:
WcAgzn0.jpg

ID5SCAg.jpg

jnT5qOI.jpg


Main issues were sourcing a video card, getting everything to fit in the case, and managing to balance noise with airflow in a Lian-Li TU150.

This is a stock TU150: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/lian-li-tu150-itx-case/3.html

Unmodified, the rear and bottom fan emplacements are highly restrictive while the bottom also lacks an intake filter. Why Lian-Li couldn't simply cut holes like they did in the front and supply a wire fan grill for the back and clip on filters for the bottom is beyond me...I guess they wanted to save a dollar. So, I (rather sloppily) cut the holes myself. After much trial and error settled on the corrugated mesh filter setup you can see in my last image. I don't like how the arperture of these filters is narrower than the fan diameter, but it's a better noise/air flow combination than the metal grill+magnetic filter combination I was originally going to go with, and far less delicate than omitting a grill entirely and trying to use a large 120x240mm magnetic filter with no support.

Originally I wanted a 3080 FE, but after toying with my brother's sample, I decided I didn't want one for this build even if I could get one, due to issues with memory cooling on them and the impracticality of squeezing a meaningful custom water loop in this system...it could certainly be done, but there would be no way to reach, let alone swap out, most parts without draining and disassembling the loop. So, I was hoping to get an EVGA XC3 as they were the only other strictly two-slot 3080 option. However, after months in a queue with no card, I was willing to consider other options.

About a month and half ago I saw a PowerColor Red Dragon 6800 XT in stock from a reputable etailer, and decided to jump on it. This left me with the choice of losing my bottom intake fans and USB 2.0 ports, or removing the fans and fan shroud from the 6800XT. As you can see, I settled on the latter. The Noctua A12x25 PWMs I'm using (five total...one front intake, two bottom intake, one on the CPU, and one rear exhaust) cool the GPU sufficiently while provided much more intake airflow than the fans on the card would have provided themselves, even if I ducted them to the hole in the bottom of the case. I also replaced all the TIM on the card: liquid metal (some decade old Phobya stuff that I like because it wets better than TG Conductonaut) on the GPU; a layer of urethane based underfill below the GPU substrate and GDDR6 BGA packages; a second layer of same underfill used as conformal coating to protect the areas around the GPU from the liquid metal TIM; and a slightly excessive amount of high-end thermal putty to replace all the stock thermal pads, as well as thermally couple the backplate to the GPU, GDDR6, and VRM. With a moderate undervolt and overclock I have the card doing a stable 2.5GHz+ in demanding apps while running cooler than stock, while cooled with only the case fans.

This whole build was one giant show after another and 2/3rds the parts in it now aren't what I started with, but I'm glad I finally got it working more or less the way I was envisioning a year and a half ago.
 

Morbad

Morbad
Micha said:
Would be nice to show the entire build on https://pcpartpicker.com/ (or similar)
Click to expand...


Only major component it's missing is this memory.

Many of the prices on partpicker are wrong, as I got mostly everything on sale or surplus, except the GPU which was half of the entire system cost (~$1200 after tax).

Robert Maynard said:
Very tidy! :D
Click to expand...

I had to use three different sets of PSU cables (only the ones going to the video card came with the PSU, the main 24-pin cable is from a different Seasonic PSU and the individually sleeved ones I bought separately just to have something that would route through the top comparment without puting pressure on anything or popping the top plate off the case), a few fan splitters, quite a few zip ties, and fair bit of gaffer tape to get everything how I wanted it, but I do think I did a good job keeping the major airflow paths clear. The Nexus BeamAir (the black guide/duct on the front fan) is almost 15 years old, and the SATA cables that you can't see at all are even older...still have the smallest heads of any of the hundred or so I've got so fit where nothing else will.

I've also got thermal putty between the SSDs and motherboard and between the Velociraptors and case to keep them cool.
 

Morbad

Morbad
A few minor changes:

  • Wedged a rubber speaker/chair foot/glide between the bottom case and the end of the video card heatsink, just in front of the frontmost bottom intake fan, to support it better. Even with the back plate, there was still some sag on the card that was worrying me, given that this system was made to be moved frequently. This makes it almost perfectly level and keeps it from moving at all during transport.
  • Made a partial duct by folding a piece of posterboard to deflect air that would otherwise bypass the GPU heatsink through it. The added restriction actually made temps worse at very low fan speeds, but cooling is better than before once the bottom intakes get past 1100-1200rpm and these fans aren't particularly audible until around 1400-1500rpm.
  • Swapped out the 8-pin PCI-E power cables going to the video card with the more flexible individually sleeved ones I had, as the ones in the image above were pushing on the side panel a bit too much. However, these other cables have a lot of extra slack, so I'm probably going to buy or make a pair of ~30cm ones and make it a straight shot between the PSU and GPU.

Finalizing my GPU OC and case fan profiles now. Looks like 2.5GHz core and 2.1GHz memory will be fully stable with a SPPT that limits maximum core voltage to 1.05v and SoC voltage to 1v (a 100 and 150mV undervolt).

Tomorrow, after I backup the clean install with clonezilla, I'll install Odyssey and Cyberpunk.
 

Morbad

Morbad
FurMark temps without duct:
5OedNnr.png


And with duct:
ndJrnPi.png


Everything else identical. 5C reduction on peak GPU edge temps, a 6C reduction on GPU hotspot temps, and about 4C everywhere else.
 

[VR] optimal_909

[VR] optimal_909
Nice build, looks very clean and purposeful!
I have started getting random 41 kernel-power shutdowns so I have ordered a new PSU (out with the bronze 600W, in with a gold 750W) that is bound to arrive tomorrow, wish me luck swapping it (never done it before). :)
 

[VR] optimal_909

[VR] optimal_909
Morbad said:
A few minor changes:

  • Wedged a rubber speaker/chair foot/glide between the bottom case and the end of the video card heatsink, just in front of the frontmost bottom intake fan, to support it better. Even with the back plate, there was still some sag on the card that was worrying me, given that this system was made to be moved frequently. This makes it almost perfectly level and keeps it from moving at all during transport.
  • Made a partial duct by folding a piece of posterboard to deflect air that would otherwise bypass the GPU heatsink through it. The added restriction actually made temps worse at very low fan speeds, but cooling is better than before once the bottom intakes get past 1100-1200rpm and these fans aren't particularly audible until around 1400-1500rpm.
  • Swapped out the 8-pin PCI-E power cables going to the video card with the more flexible individually sleeved ones I had, as the ones in the image above were pushing on the side panel a bit too much. However, these other cables have a lot of extra slack, so I'm probably going to buy or make a pair of ~30cm ones and make it a straight shot between the PSU and GPU.

Finalizing my GPU OC and case fan profiles now. Looks like 2.5GHz core and 2.1GHz memory will be fully stable with a SPPT that limits maximum core voltage to 1.05v and SoC voltage to 1v (a 100 and 150mV undervolt).

Tomorrow, after I backup the clean install with clonezilla, I'll install Odyssey and Cyberpunk.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, what makes you move your PC around?
In the past I also did it, but ever since Parsec is a thing, it essentially made the need obsolete. Streaming is so great I can even PVP in World of Warships while on a 5G Wifi on the receiving.

I have also bought Cyberpunk, makes good use of the GPU. :)
 

Morbad

Morbad
[VR] optimal_909 said:
Out of curiosity, what makes you move your PC around?
Click to expand...

Space availability mostly. The room my primary system is normally set up in isn't very conducive to VR or large TV-sized displays. Being able to just unplug three cable, pick up the whole system, and carry it to my living room is nice...at least until I source a faster GPU for my HTPC.

In non-pandemic times, I also visit family for extended periods and being able to take my main desktop, rather than one of my much slower desktops is nice.

[VR] optimal_909 said:
In the past I also did it, but ever since Parsec is a thing, it essentially made the need obsolete. Streaming is so great I can even PVP in World of Warships while on a 5G Wifi on the receiving.
Click to expand...

Latency and bandwidth aren't hugely problematic on a LAN, but it's still not native and still has overhead. I also haven't found any solid way to stream VR content.

For non-local stuff, the total input-to-display latency is about doubled, at best...suitable for something like World of Warships or even Elite, but this will be problematic for some faster paced games. Video compression quality is an even larger issue. I am extremely picky about this and real-time 50 megabit video at 1440p60 with the best hardware encoders available looks distinctly worse than native to me in complex and/or high-motion scenes...and I only have about 15 megabit of useful upload bandwidth anyway. Being limited to 60 fps is also a dealbreaker for some titles.
 

[VR] optimal_909

[VR] optimal_909
Morbad said:
Space availability mostly. The room my primary system is normally set up in isn't very conducive to VR or large TV-sized displays. Being able to just unplug three cable, pick up the whole system, and carry it to my living room is nice...at least until I source a faster GPU for my HTPC.

In non-pandemic times, I also visit family for extended periods and being able to take my main desktop, rather than one of my much slower desktops is nice.



Latency and bandwidth aren't hugely problematic on a LAN, but it's still not native and still has overhead. I also haven't found any solid way to stream VR content.

For non-local stuff, the total input-to-display latency is about doubled, at best...suitable for something like World of Warships or even Elite, but this will be problematic for some faster paced games. Video compression quality is an even larger issue. I am extremely picky about this and real-time 50 megabit video at 1440p60 with the best hardware encoders available looks distinctly worse than native to me in complex and/or high-motion scenes...and I only have about 15 megabit of useful upload bandwidth anyway. Being limited to 60 fps is also a dealbreaker for some titles.
Click to expand...

Oh I see, I do have just enough space for room scale though I rarely play such games.
Actually I have such a backlog in games, that I have no issues playing whatever is best suited on the laptop via Parsec - the only exception is Kerbal Space Program, for some reason camera controls won't work with the mouse.

And this is my build, came as custom pre-built and pretty clean, now it is somewhat unorganized.
Bottom fan barely fits in, and I didn't figure out yet how to properly place the SSDs in the bottom rack, SATA cable aren't long enough for the top rack for optical drives (empty) which otherwise cannot be removed. The anti-sag support I got with card no longer fits into the case, so 30+ year-old Lego bricks have to the trick. :)

IMG_20210408_180214_030.jpg
 

Patrick_68000

Patrick_68000
[VR] optimal_909 said:
Oh I see, I do have just enough space for room scale though I rarely play such games.
Actually I have such a backlog in games, that I have no issues playing whatever is best suited on the laptop via Parsec - the only exception is Kerbal Space Program, for some reason camera controls won't work with the mouse.

And this is my build, came as custom pre-built and pretty clean, now it is somewhat unorganized.
Bottom fan barely fits in, and I didn't figure out yet how to properly place the SSDs in the bottom rack, SATA cable aren't long enough for the top rack for optical drives (empty) which otherwise cannot be removed. The anti-sag support I got with card no longer fits into the case, so 30+ year-old Lego bricks have to the trick. :)

View attachment 221162
Click to expand...
Nice machine here.

If you need to add one or two components later, you don't have to keep the box.

You can put all the components on a table. It will work just as well. :)

PC 1.jpg

PC 2.jpg

😷
 

[VR] optimal_909

[VR] optimal_909
Patrick_68000 said:
Nice machine here.

If you need to add one or two components later, you don't have to keep the box.

You can put all the components on a table. It will work just as well. :)

View attachment 221165
View attachment 221166
😷
Click to expand...

Kids will get this build whenever I'll upgrade, no e-waste here. :)

I will keep my builds in cases because of dust, especially as my PC is close to the washing machine and dryer, the latter spews insane amount of dust (if at one point that needs to be replaced, dust emission will be prio #1 when buying a new). Fortunately my efforts to make a positive pressure layout seemingly succeeded, so I am mostly OK by cleaning the filters only.
 

Morbad

Morbad
Trying to decide if it's worth wiring up an adapter so my video card can control the speed of the bottom intake fans. Current setup is satisfactory, but with the temperature sources for fan control limited to the CPU or chipset, there is both a narrow range of usable fan speeds and a major delay in adapting to GPU load. I essentially need to set a high fan speed floor, and then a rapid ramp-up as chipset temperature increases. Having the GPU control things would allow for less idle noise and better load temperatures. Not sure it's worth the hassle of wiring up a custom splitter and pulling everything apart, however.

Been playing a lot of Cyberpunk recently and playing with different options for video capture. OBS works with AMD's AMF now, but it's capture sources have more overhead than the native capture of ReLive. The downside of ReLive is that it has almost no encoder options and is limited to rather tightly constrained VBR. I need to capture at 100 megabit HEVC to get passable quality 4k60 in high-motion scenes, but this wastes a lot of bits in lower motion or less detailed scenes. With OBS I can use CQP 26 to match or best the overall quality of the maxed out ReLive settings, but get lower average bit rate over the long run. Cyberpunk doesn't really have enough performance headroom at ~4k to handle the extra 5-10% overhead of OBS without the game dipping below 60 fps at times.

Compounding that issue the new AMD 21.4.1 drivers have reduced the peak stable OC I could get out of this part relative to the prior version...bug fixes and features are enough to keep me from reverting, but I would have liked to keep that extra few percent of performance. On the plus side, the more conservative OCs don't need any more voltage, so I'm back at my -100mV undervolt, ~2.5GHz core, 2.1GHz memory, overclock.

Recording performance test in CP2077 at 4k60:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psoinZfx-Es


It's not true 4k as I found performance a bit lacking for that, so I'm using 85% FidelityFX CAS (which makes it 3264*1836 internal resolution, plus an upscaling and sharpen filter). RT is off, everything else on high, except DoF/film grain/etc (disabled), and crowd density (medium). Crowd density doesn't matter much most places, but in the city center it's the main eater of CPU cycles and my 3900X becomes very CPU limited with the crowds maxed out in some places.

Also, despite it's lack of options, I am really impressed with ReLive. It's capturing sixty 4k frames persecond and encoding them in 100Mbps HEVC (H.265) on the fly with less than one frame per second of performance hit. I cannot tell it's capturing video if I miss the overlay prompt...accidentally filled one of my HDDs earlier because I didn't realize it was still recording.

Will probably do a performance analysis of Odyssey sometime in phase four.
 
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Morbad

Morbad
Separated the GPU intakes from the front intake, linked the front intake to the rear exhaust, and pulled off the sound dampening foam I had on the side panel vent to allow the now ducted GPU exhaust to partially vent out the side instead of being completely mixed with the CPU airflow. Noise level went up slightly and I can now hear some of the remaining coil whine, but overall it's an improvement. Also, my new 8-pin PCI-E cables finally arrived from MODDIY--fairly impressed with their quality and pleased that they used all available ground pins coming from my PSU (unlike my much more expensive CableMod cables). However, if I had known it would have taken 40 days to get them from Taiwan I would have just made my own.

Also tried a 5800X for a while, but ended up putting my 3900X back in cause it's faster in most of the stuff I do, and is actually easier to cool (fewer cores per CCD = lower effective thermal density, even if total thermal output is higher).

Final internal layout:
dnqyngJ.jpg


Quick TimeSpy bench:
3h1q8xJ.png


New driver branch from AMD (21.4.1 and everything after, so far) reduced maximum stable OC for the Navi21 cards by about 50-100MHz at any given voltage, so performance is a bit lower than before, but despite ambient temperatures being warmer, the cooling changes I've made still allow me to keep 2.5GHz core fully stable.

Just finished installing Odyssey, going to test that now.
 

Morbad

Morbad
Swapped in my new 5800X the other day and the fact that I haven't yanked it out and replaced it with my 3900X or 3950X is strong evidence that it's a good sample. Last one I had was outright defective, but this one seems to be a keeper.

Now I should have as much per-core performance (~20% more IPC and ~500MHz higher gaming boost clocks) as is reasonable to have today (with only good 5900/5950Xes or overclocked Rocket Lake parts being faster). Can't wait for those marginal improvements in Odyssey.

I did have to loosen memory timings slightly for DDR4-3800, mostly because of temperature...testmem5 was erroring out in extended runs while the video card was heavily loaded. Need to keep vDIMM below 1.28v or the RAM gets too hot, which limits how far I can push it.

Still going to be a while before I can do a good comparison between the 6800 XT and the 3080. I'm trying to stabilize 128GiB of heavily overclocked, mismatched, memory, on a mediocre 4-layer daisychain board and it will probably take another week of testing to dial in optimal settings.
 
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