This is the second in a series of threads on the Karma and Punishment system and attempts at implementing a crime and punishment system that allows for all player game styles yet remains consistent with the general themes and structure of ED, provides enough opportunities for different player interactions, balances the system to avoid any one player group being unduly disadvantaged by another, and allows for open opportunities for Role-Play in the broader MMO vein.
Prior to reading this, you should probably familiarize yourself with my first post [Karma and Punishment] Prologue, which outlines a general crime and punishment system that allows for piracy and bounty hunting. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/341885-KARMA-and-PUNISHMENT-The-Prologue
This thread is intended to flesh out a Pirate Role that can be implemented which allows for the profitable pursuit of piracy in keeping with ED lore, gameplay and general themes.
Problem: The existing PVP piracy mechanic does not fulfill the intended or desired role. The options, gains and penalties associated with the existing mechanic are frustrating and, as a result, those players wishing to pursue or engage in this type of activity against other players, are in turn frustrated which causes unintended trickle down effects to the Open commanders.
Assumptions:
1) Piracy is not, in and of itself, outside of the proposed game mechanic and everyone buying into the game accepts that other player interactions in Open mode may be hostile.
2) Playing in Open mode is the preferred mode of play from the developer’s point of view, for numerous reasons.
3) Every action should have a proportionately equal reaction.
4) No one player group should be able to disproportionately devalue any other player group’s in-game experience.
5) There are many ways to play ED and players accept that their decisions have consequences but others may choose to play the game differently (see 4 and 5 above).
6) The inherent game simulator (BGS) can track player actions against other players.
7) Piracy is understood to be present in the ED galaxy in two general forms:
a. The interception of Player ships and the theft of their cargo (including Passengers perhaps in a future system), or
b. The destruction of Player ships.
8) Piracy is generally regarded as criminal behavior in the context of the ED galaxy.
9) Piracy is generally driven by two aims:
a. Profit
b. The love of criminality
10) This system applies ONLY to Player vs Player interactions at this stage and does not include Player v NPC activities. (this can be reviewed later if needed)
11) A LOANED hardpoint or utility mount is EXEMPT from this system. If a pirate shoots down a new player with LOANED hardpoints and utility mounts on board, these LOANED items are not dispersed into space and cannot be recovered. If the ship has a mix of LOANED and purchased items on board then only those purchased item fall under the rules identified below and only those items are counted towards the total % values indicated. Cargo, however, is dispersed as per the rules below.
Solution:
1) Pirates are subject to the rules and restrictions outlined in my previous thread [Karma and Punishment] Prologue.
2) The introduction of the Detailed Ship Scanner. The DShS allows a pirate to scan a target vessel and determine the cargo manifest (type and volume), the ships currently equipped modules (hardpoints, utility mounts etc.) and whether a module has been engineered (though not how it has been engineered).
3) Scanning a player is not regarded as a crime or even a minor offence. Any player can scan any other player without penalty.
4) The player being scanned is automatically alerted to the fact they are being scanned and by whom.
5) Once the pirate engages the player there are two feasible options for the pirate:
a. Cargo theft
b. Termination
Cargo Theft
1) The pirate can extract cargo from a target in four ways:
a. The target voluntarily ejects their cargo
b. The target involuntarily ejects their cargo (cargo hatch is destroyed or otherwise opened) but player’s ship remains mobile.
c. The target is immobilized and then option a or option b above are enacted
d. The target is destroyed and their cargo is dispersed
2) Voluntary ejection. The target agrees to eject their cargo. Player ejects cargo. The cargo remains in the instance until either:
a. All the cargo is loaded aboard the pirate
b. The pirate leaves the cargo instance
c. The cargo is destroyed
d. A period of 15 minutes elapses (necessary clean-up balance for BGS)
e. Note: The player who dropped their cargo can flee the cargo instance with no effect on the cargo.
3) Involuntary ejection. The pirate disables the cargo hatch and 100% of target cargo is ejected into space. There are several possible end resolutions to this scenario:
a. Target flees (see Voluntary ejection above for cargo collection)
b. Target remains and fights, and is killed (see target termination below)
c. Target remains and fights and kills Pirate.
i. Without a functional cargo hatch, the target cannot load cargo back into their ship.
ii. If, for any reason, the target can repair their cargo hatch, then they can load the cargo back to their ship.
iii. Another player can load the cargo into their ship.
iv. 15 minutes elapses and the cargo self-destructs.
4) Immobilized target. Same as Voluntary and involuntary ejection above.
5) Termination. Termination should be a ‘last resort’ for cargo theft. Blowing up the ship is almost certainly going to destroy or damage at least some of the cargo in the hold. Further, the scaling bounties outlined in my other post for player theft may make this option less desirable to genuine cargo theft pirates. Therefore:
a. Blowing up a ship automatically destroys 30 – 50% of the ship’s cargo outright (determined randomly).
b. Cargo can be retrieved from space but there is a 10 – 20% chance that every cargo unit retrieved is devalued by 30 - 50% due to damage (determined randomly).
c. If the cargo has already been retrieved, Termination of the target does not, clearly, affect the cargo already retrieved. However, it will still affect the hardpoints or utility points that may be retrieved as described below.
6) Cargo sales.
a. All cargo gathered in this way is ILLEGAL goods and must be sold on a black market.
b. Being scanned while carrying ILLEGAL goods will change your faction status to WANTED (not to be confused with the ratings of the Pilots federation).
c. ILLEGAL goods, by their nature, will not receive the same value as legal goods. All ILLEGAL cargo is sold at 75% of its market value of the system / base in which it is sold.
d. Explosive damages are further deducted from this re-sale value.
Killing Players ships
1) Not all Pirates are content with stealing cargo.
2) Ships are equipped with valuable items that can be re-sold that are mounted on the ship (hardpoints, utilities etc.).
3) Following engagement of a ship, a Pirate can continue to fight to destroy the ship.
4) Destruction of a player ship incurs penalties included in the [Karma and Punishment] Prologue thread.
5) When a ship is destroyed by a Pirate the following items are dropped from the destroyed ship.
a. Destruction of the ship will result in cargo dispersal as defined above.
b. Between 50 – 75% of non-structural hardpoints and utility mounts are randomly dropped as recoverable cargo (A structural mount such as a hull package, cargo rack or a passenger cabin cannot feasibly be dropped, but a weapon, a shield cell bank, the FSD drive, a heat sink launcher etc. can be dropped).
c. Items retrieved from space have a 10 – 20% random chance of being devalued by 50% due to combat damage.
d. Each hardpoint or utility mount takes up 1 unit of cargo space.
e. Dropped hardpoints or utility mounts remain in the instance until they are picked up.
f. If a pirate does not have enough cargo space for these items, they can be picked up by another player.
g. If the pirate leaves the cargo / item instance then the dropped items self-destruct.
h. After a period of 15 minutes the dropped items self-destruct.
i. Items can be shot (or rammed) and destroyed
6) Hardpoints and Utility Mounts sales
a. All items gathered in this way are ILLEGAL goods and must be sold on a black market.
b. Being scanned while carrying ILLEGAL goods will change your status to WANTED.
c. Illegal goods, by their nature, will not receive the same value as legal goods. All ILLEGAL items are sold at 75% of their purchase value for the system in which it is sold.
d. ENGINEERED items are sold at 125% of the items base purchase value.
e. Explosive combat damages (if applicable) are further deducted from the re-sale value.
I understand that Fdev may be working towards being able to dock, board and potentially steal ships but that mechanic might be very complex and if this one won’t work then it might be hard getting that to work to any degree. However, that is not to say it cannot be enacted in the future on top of this system if required.
I believe that the system above allows for cargo theft to be returned at a profitable rate based upon in-game rules and reasonable logic.
I also believe that the system above allows for pirates to earn money from attacking and killing other players, but that the balance is skewed towards attacking larger and therefore more skilled and more cash fluid players than newer players with smaller ships with less value items. The balance also pits engineered players against each other due to the greater value of engineered modules and away from non-engineered ships.
Once again, this is part of a series if proposed suggestions and cannot be read as a stand-alone solution or suggestion without the karma and punishment bounties system.
And – once again – the %ages discussed are, at this stage, nominal and can be modified if necessary. It is the general tenet of the idea that I am proposing as an 80% solution with the last 20% to be thrashed out in the community.
Prior to reading this, you should probably familiarize yourself with my first post [Karma and Punishment] Prologue, which outlines a general crime and punishment system that allows for piracy and bounty hunting. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/341885-KARMA-and-PUNISHMENT-The-Prologue
This thread is intended to flesh out a Pirate Role that can be implemented which allows for the profitable pursuit of piracy in keeping with ED lore, gameplay and general themes.
Problem: The existing PVP piracy mechanic does not fulfill the intended or desired role. The options, gains and penalties associated with the existing mechanic are frustrating and, as a result, those players wishing to pursue or engage in this type of activity against other players, are in turn frustrated which causes unintended trickle down effects to the Open commanders.
Assumptions:
1) Piracy is not, in and of itself, outside of the proposed game mechanic and everyone buying into the game accepts that other player interactions in Open mode may be hostile.
2) Playing in Open mode is the preferred mode of play from the developer’s point of view, for numerous reasons.
3) Every action should have a proportionately equal reaction.
4) No one player group should be able to disproportionately devalue any other player group’s in-game experience.
5) There are many ways to play ED and players accept that their decisions have consequences but others may choose to play the game differently (see 4 and 5 above).
6) The inherent game simulator (BGS) can track player actions against other players.
7) Piracy is understood to be present in the ED galaxy in two general forms:
a. The interception of Player ships and the theft of their cargo (including Passengers perhaps in a future system), or
b. The destruction of Player ships.
8) Piracy is generally regarded as criminal behavior in the context of the ED galaxy.
9) Piracy is generally driven by two aims:
a. Profit
b. The love of criminality
10) This system applies ONLY to Player vs Player interactions at this stage and does not include Player v NPC activities. (this can be reviewed later if needed)
11) A LOANED hardpoint or utility mount is EXEMPT from this system. If a pirate shoots down a new player with LOANED hardpoints and utility mounts on board, these LOANED items are not dispersed into space and cannot be recovered. If the ship has a mix of LOANED and purchased items on board then only those purchased item fall under the rules identified below and only those items are counted towards the total % values indicated. Cargo, however, is dispersed as per the rules below.
Solution:
1) Pirates are subject to the rules and restrictions outlined in my previous thread [Karma and Punishment] Prologue.
2) The introduction of the Detailed Ship Scanner. The DShS allows a pirate to scan a target vessel and determine the cargo manifest (type and volume), the ships currently equipped modules (hardpoints, utility mounts etc.) and whether a module has been engineered (though not how it has been engineered).
3) Scanning a player is not regarded as a crime or even a minor offence. Any player can scan any other player without penalty.
4) The player being scanned is automatically alerted to the fact they are being scanned and by whom.
5) Once the pirate engages the player there are two feasible options for the pirate:
a. Cargo theft
b. Termination
Cargo Theft
1) The pirate can extract cargo from a target in four ways:
a. The target voluntarily ejects their cargo
b. The target involuntarily ejects their cargo (cargo hatch is destroyed or otherwise opened) but player’s ship remains mobile.
c. The target is immobilized and then option a or option b above are enacted
d. The target is destroyed and their cargo is dispersed
2) Voluntary ejection. The target agrees to eject their cargo. Player ejects cargo. The cargo remains in the instance until either:
a. All the cargo is loaded aboard the pirate
b. The pirate leaves the cargo instance
c. The cargo is destroyed
d. A period of 15 minutes elapses (necessary clean-up balance for BGS)
e. Note: The player who dropped their cargo can flee the cargo instance with no effect on the cargo.
3) Involuntary ejection. The pirate disables the cargo hatch and 100% of target cargo is ejected into space. There are several possible end resolutions to this scenario:
a. Target flees (see Voluntary ejection above for cargo collection)
b. Target remains and fights, and is killed (see target termination below)
c. Target remains and fights and kills Pirate.
i. Without a functional cargo hatch, the target cannot load cargo back into their ship.
ii. If, for any reason, the target can repair their cargo hatch, then they can load the cargo back to their ship.
iii. Another player can load the cargo into their ship.
iv. 15 minutes elapses and the cargo self-destructs.
4) Immobilized target. Same as Voluntary and involuntary ejection above.
5) Termination. Termination should be a ‘last resort’ for cargo theft. Blowing up the ship is almost certainly going to destroy or damage at least some of the cargo in the hold. Further, the scaling bounties outlined in my other post for player theft may make this option less desirable to genuine cargo theft pirates. Therefore:
a. Blowing up a ship automatically destroys 30 – 50% of the ship’s cargo outright (determined randomly).
b. Cargo can be retrieved from space but there is a 10 – 20% chance that every cargo unit retrieved is devalued by 30 - 50% due to damage (determined randomly).
c. If the cargo has already been retrieved, Termination of the target does not, clearly, affect the cargo already retrieved. However, it will still affect the hardpoints or utility points that may be retrieved as described below.
6) Cargo sales.
a. All cargo gathered in this way is ILLEGAL goods and must be sold on a black market.
b. Being scanned while carrying ILLEGAL goods will change your faction status to WANTED (not to be confused with the ratings of the Pilots federation).
c. ILLEGAL goods, by their nature, will not receive the same value as legal goods. All ILLEGAL cargo is sold at 75% of its market value of the system / base in which it is sold.
d. Explosive damages are further deducted from this re-sale value.
Killing Players ships
1) Not all Pirates are content with stealing cargo.
2) Ships are equipped with valuable items that can be re-sold that are mounted on the ship (hardpoints, utilities etc.).
3) Following engagement of a ship, a Pirate can continue to fight to destroy the ship.
4) Destruction of a player ship incurs penalties included in the [Karma and Punishment] Prologue thread.
5) When a ship is destroyed by a Pirate the following items are dropped from the destroyed ship.
a. Destruction of the ship will result in cargo dispersal as defined above.
b. Between 50 – 75% of non-structural hardpoints and utility mounts are randomly dropped as recoverable cargo (A structural mount such as a hull package, cargo rack or a passenger cabin cannot feasibly be dropped, but a weapon, a shield cell bank, the FSD drive, a heat sink launcher etc. can be dropped).
c. Items retrieved from space have a 10 – 20% random chance of being devalued by 50% due to combat damage.
d. Each hardpoint or utility mount takes up 1 unit of cargo space.
e. Dropped hardpoints or utility mounts remain in the instance until they are picked up.
f. If a pirate does not have enough cargo space for these items, they can be picked up by another player.
g. If the pirate leaves the cargo / item instance then the dropped items self-destruct.
h. After a period of 15 minutes the dropped items self-destruct.
i. Items can be shot (or rammed) and destroyed
6) Hardpoints and Utility Mounts sales
a. All items gathered in this way are ILLEGAL goods and must be sold on a black market.
b. Being scanned while carrying ILLEGAL goods will change your status to WANTED.
c. Illegal goods, by their nature, will not receive the same value as legal goods. All ILLEGAL items are sold at 75% of their purchase value for the system in which it is sold.
d. ENGINEERED items are sold at 125% of the items base purchase value.
e. Explosive combat damages (if applicable) are further deducted from the re-sale value.
I understand that Fdev may be working towards being able to dock, board and potentially steal ships but that mechanic might be very complex and if this one won’t work then it might be hard getting that to work to any degree. However, that is not to say it cannot be enacted in the future on top of this system if required.
I believe that the system above allows for cargo theft to be returned at a profitable rate based upon in-game rules and reasonable logic.
I also believe that the system above allows for pirates to earn money from attacking and killing other players, but that the balance is skewed towards attacking larger and therefore more skilled and more cash fluid players than newer players with smaller ships with less value items. The balance also pits engineered players against each other due to the greater value of engineered modules and away from non-engineered ships.
Once again, this is part of a series if proposed suggestions and cannot be read as a stand-alone solution or suggestion without the karma and punishment bounties system.
And – once again – the %ages discussed are, at this stage, nominal and can be modified if necessary. It is the general tenet of the idea that I am proposing as an 80% solution with the last 20% to be thrashed out in the community.