KIll Warrant Scan necessity

[Anthrage]

Just recently returned to Elite after a long absence. Picked up Horizons, am enjoying it so far, but a bit surprised at finding a particular annoyance is still present - though this may not be the case and I may simply be uninformed on the issue.

What I'm referring to is how a Wanted NPC can fire on you and unless you Scan him first, if you return fire you become Wanted yourself - resulting in a bounty and the need to carefully get to a corresponding station to pay it of before someone attacks you in turn.

Am I missing something or does this not seem odd? Has it in fact been addressed and I'm unawares, or is this not actually a problem?

Happy to be back in the pilot's seat again but experiencing this in the first few days of my return and wasting considerable time to address it was shall we say, unwelcome.

Thanks in advance for any forthcoming enlightenment!

 

[Ziljan]

Just recently returned to Elite after a long absence. Picked up Horizons, am enjoying it so far, but a bit surprised at finding a particular annoyance is still present - though this may not be the case and I may simply be uninformed on the issue.

What I'm referring to is how a Wanted NPC can fire on you and unless you Scan him first, if you return fire you become Wanted yourself - resulting in a bounty and the need to carefully get to a corresponding station to pay it of before someone attacks you in turn.

Am I missing something or does this not seem odd? Has it in fact been addressed and I'm unawares, or is this not actually a problem?

Happy to be back in the pilot's seat again but experiencing this in the first few days of my return and wasting considerable time to address it was shall we say, unwelcome.

Thanks in advance for any forthcoming enlightenment!

Thought they fixed this a while ago? Are you 100% sure you didn't fire on a target that was clean? If you are pledged to PP you can be attacked by people with a red Hostile label that looks an awful lot like a Wanted status out of the corner of your eye.

If you can capture a video and post it the bug forum, or just make a post so the QC folks can investigate, then any needed fix might make it in time for 2.2

 

[Anthrage]

Thanks for the reply. I did happen to record it - I just watched it again and the situation was a bit more complex than I had originally noted. I was jumped by a wing of 6, and while they were all Wanted, I had not yet scanned the one I fired upon before firing on it, nor had it fired on me at that point...I knew it was hostile due to it's chat dialogue, but technically it had not acted aggressive towards me - unless you consider masterminding the plan to kill me as aggressive.

Seems like a grey area...I'll upload it shortly so you can see how exactly went down, but it may be that my Wanted status was warranted in this case, if not just.

 

[d8veh]

You can't pay off bounties. You'll be wanted in that system until the timer expires.

 

[Anthrage]

That's odd. I did pay the fine and no longer appeared to be Wanted. How long is the timer?

 

[sicksuntzu]

depends on if you just shoot or kill it. Think a kill is like 6 days or something, where as if you clip em with a couple of stray shots just jump systems for like 5-10 mins and it goes.

 

[_trent_]

Assault is usually 10 minutes. Murder is a week.

Edit: Ninja'd again.

 

[Faded Glory]

That's odd. I did pay the fine and no longer appeared to be Wanted. How long is the timer?

Depends on the size of the bounty (essentially)... An assault bounty 200 to 400 credits lasts 7 minutes. A murder bounty 6,000 - 13,000 lasts 7 days.

If you are no longer wanted in the system where you got the bounty, when you go to a station in that system, check under Contacts in starport services and you should see a legacy fine which means the bounty has timed out and you can pay the fine off if you want. It'll never revert to a bounty, but if you ever need to re-buy your ship in that system, unpaid legacy fines will be added to the insurance cost.

 

[jimbeau1571]

Just recently returned to Elite after a long absence. Picked up Horizons, am enjoying it so far, but a bit surprised at finding a particular annoyance is still present - though this may not be the case and I may simply be uninformed on the issue.

What I'm referring to is how a Wanted NPC can fire on you and unless you Scan him first, if you return fire you become Wanted yourself - resulting in a bounty and the need to carefully get to a corresponding station to pay it of before someone attacks you in turn.

Am I missing something or does this not seem odd? Has it in fact been addressed and I'm unawares, or is this not actually a problem?

Happy to be back in the pilot's seat again but experiencing this in the first few days of my return and wasting considerable time to address it was shall we say, unwelcome.

Thanks in advance for any forthcoming enlightenment!

Your bang on the money. It hasn't changed in the way it works since I have been playing as of November last year. If you have targeted and basic scanned a vessel and shoot it, you'll become Wanted despite his status being Wanted after the scan. Frustrating as hell when you know he is part of a Wing and you have scanned one of the Wing already.

Bonus is, if you jump away before he dies you'll only have a small fine and short time to wait before the Wanted clears on H-Jump

 

[Anthrage]

Great, thanks to all for the additional information, very useful.

Here is the encounter in question - it is an interesting example of the kind of thing I worry about when it comes to General or Machine Artificial Intelligence. Clearly I had good reason to assume my target was hostile, and a requirement to first scan or wait till I was fired upon would be absurd in such a situation...but this is the problem with the kind of hard rules information systems - and legal systems for that matter - use, as opposed to cases of individual judgement.

At least I got away alive - lesson learned.

 

[Faded Glory]

Great, thanks to all for the additional information, very useful.

Here is the encounter in question - it is an interesting example of the kind of thing I worry about when it comes to General or Machine Artificial Intelligence. Clearly I had good reason to assume my target was hostile, and a requirement to first scan or wait till I was fired upon would be absurd in such a situation...but this is the problem with the kind of hard rules information systems - and legal systems for that matter - use, as opposed to cases of individual judgement.

At least I got away alive - lesson learned.

Thing is, while a target may be obviously hostile, even red on your scanner, until he actually fires on you then he just doesn't like you... You can't go around shooting people just because they don't like you.

Seriously though, as soon as a ship fires upon and hits you, then immediately you target them they are identified as wanted (as long as you have "Report Crimes Against Me" on), there is no need then to sit through a scan.

 

[Twiggier]

Anthrage, I noticed in your clip that after your shields went down and you were starting your advance to the rear, you still had 4 pips to SYS and only 2 pips to ENG. You should have reallocated to 4 pips to ENG to be able to advance to the rear faster. You would have gotten out of range quicker and the 4 pips to SYS doesn't help the shields come back up any quicker as long you had charge in the SYS capacitor. Good try taking on a wing of 6 solo.

 

[Anthrage]

Thanks Twiggier, I was thinking about that today - that power to a particular capacitor only determines the rate at which it fills, and has no effect on what that capacitor actually powers. I am in the process of transitioning from a casual pilot to a more serious one and this is one of the many details I need to be more mindful of.

In some cases due to my loadout I am able to draw the faster of the ships in a wing away from the rest and deal with them one or a two at a time, but there was way too much going on for that to be effective or even viable in this case.

Anthrage, I noticed in your clip that after your shields went down and you were starting your advance to the rear, you still had 4 pips to SYS and only 2 pips to ENG. You should have reallocated to 4 pips to ENG to be able to advance to the rear faster. You would have gotten out of range quicker and the 4 pips to SYS doesn't help the shields come back up any quicker as long you had charge in the SYS capacitor. Good try taking on a wing of 6 solo.

 

[DragoonKnight]

Great, thanks to all for the additional information, very useful.

Here is the encounter in question - it is an interesting example of the kind of thing I worry about when it comes to General or Machine Artificial Intelligence. Clearly I had good reason to assume my target was hostile, and a requirement to first scan or wait till I was fired upon would be absurd in such a situation...but this is the problem with the kind of hard rules information systems - and legal systems for that matter - use, as opposed to cases of individual judgement.

At least I got away alive - lesson learned.

1:13 or so in your video, you targetted him and it says "Scanning..." on the lower left side of your screen. You have to wait for that to complete. When it completes and says Wanted, then you can fire on him. If you had opened fire on him at 1:18 instead of 1:16 you would have been fine.

 

[Anthrage]

Yep, again for some reason I had A) assumed once someone fires on you, it doesn't matter if you scan them or not and B) assumed that he had already fired on me, which he had not. Thanks though.

1:13 or so in your video, you targetted him and it says "Scanning..." on the lower left side of your screen. You have to wait for that to complete. When it completes and says Wanted, then you can fire on him. If you had opened fire on him at 1:18 instead of 1:16 you would have been fine.