Kill Warrant Scanner; Why Such a Power Hog?

[PhanttoM]

Since it's an active scan I always assumed it was scanning the ship for physical details, and then cross referencing databases for verification. (ie. "Scan has revealed a dent near thruster #6 which matches the description of the ship reported in 3 other systems")


If it was just a database check, your ship's onboad computer could do all the work without having to face the target.

 

[Schmack]

You're scanning police databases for warant's in other jurisdictions, how I understand it anyway. Keeping on the target is just a little minigame to make you put effort in it.

No. The game is clearly laid out. There's no need to infer things that aren't obviously implied in the game, just to bridge the explanation gap. You're scanning the ship you're targeting, that's plain to see. Higher powered ones scan faster, further. They still tell you every warrant anywhere in the galaxy, so using more power doesn't allow them to communicate further.

It's not clearly laid out how the KWS works. What is apparent is the power draw, and it doesn't jive with the functionality considering advanced discovery scanning uses no power. I get why, from a gameplay perspective and I value gameplay over "makes sense". I don't understand how taxing the KWS balances game play. If the warrant money imbalances the game, why is it there to begin with? Why does it only punish power limited ships? Is it intended to be an advanced player device for larger ships?

It's almost as if the game funnels you to larger platforms so you can actually use the combination of devices the game offers. The only thing about that is plenty folks don't care to fly larger ships. I understand you cannot put 10 pounds of dog food into a 5 pound bag, but I'm asking why the KWS is considered that much of a game balancing tool when SCBs, even relatively powerful ones, aren't as taxing.

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Since it's an active scan I always assumed it was scanning the ship for physical details, and then cross referencing databases for verification. (ie. "Scan has revealed a dent near thruster #6 which matches the description of the ship reported in 3 other systems")


If it was just a database check, your ship's onboad computer could do all the work without having to face the target.

That's a cool narrative, but you'd not get a kill warrant for a commonality. You'd need a clear identification. We see ships fire at us but cannot engage until they hit us. I don't think "it looks like him" would allow a kill warrant to be issued.

I'd think ship itself has the information that it's wanted. Yours does. If you're scanning for that information, it could be hard to crack. Who knows. If that was the story, It would make more sense that you'd need a very powerful scanner to crack or penetrate a black box type device.

 

[Schmack]

Yeah, that is how it is implemented. But ask yourself what on your ship my KWS actually scans to find your bounties around the galaxy? Do you think it is printed on the ship somewhere? Is the KWS hacking your ship computer that maybe keeps a record of your crimes? It is clearly just a fun implementation to make it interesting in-game. If they would change it to a realistic implementation the range should not exist, as well as the 10s delay (it should take 1ms to lookup the ship id in the KWS database).

I can sit in my ship and tell you every bounty I have against me in every system because it's displayed right there for me to see under the transactions tab. If I can see it, it's in the ship's database.

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A rated scanners aren't for anyone. I couldn't put one on an Anaconda or a Python. It makes no sense to double power requirements with every rating, and no other module in the entire game works like this.

Thank you! This is my point! You go from module to module and observe the power usage and make your decision on loadout. When it comes to the KWS, it's ludicrous. It's almost as if FDEV wants to deter you from using it, yet funnel you to exploration since the discovery scanners are obviously solar powered.

 

[Deleted member 94277]

Yeah, well, my logic is always that KWS use a lot of power because they are accessing a really big database and all. But the OP is right, they're a major powerhog and it would be nice if they weren't. I use 1E or 1D at the most because of this - the bigger range is a non-issue to me - and also because they don't cost so much as a 1A one. On a side note, I'd gladly pay millions for a better KWS not with better range, but with faster scanning time.

 

[Schmack]

I'm not attempting to provide a work around. If you're using a smaller, less mw-producing ship, use a lower-rated scanner. The higher rated ones are just not for you. Would it feel better to you if there were different class utility mounts, and the high-rated scanners required a larger mount? I mean, it's reasonable for bigger ships to tend to have bigger / longer range weapons, why not longer range scanners, too?

That's exactly what a work around is, compromising by using something less than you should be using.

Your answer to why the KWS requires so much power is that I don't need it.

 

[newman1702]

As far as I understand it, I'm guessing the KWS scans a ship registry /IFF sig or some such thing and then runs it against law enforcement agency databases in real time, using it's own FTL comm unit. People tried to use this explanation for it being a power hog. Unfortunately this explanation makes no sense, because while the E and D rated ones don't use much power at all, the A rated unit takes really a lot of power, and the only difference is a what, 2.5km range or some such figure? This range is the only difference between an E and an A KWS.

I've started a similar thread on this in the past, in which I argued that what this basically causes is just forces people to use the cheapest lowest range variant on most builds, because not many ships can brag about having an overabundance of power when geared for combat. I also argued that the power requirement isn't the best way to differentiate between the units. I honestly think that the power requirements between all KWS's should be the same or very similar. What should set them apart is range, price, and scanning speed, which isn't even a factor atm because all take the same amount of time to scan. I'd have no issue paying a premium for an A rated KWS if it cut scanning times and gave me more range without making my ship shut down when I deploy hardpoints.. Till then, E unit for me. I'd rather have a bit extra shielding than a few hundred m more KWS range while still taking forever.

 

[Hagledesperado]

The KWS mechanics make no sense whatsoever, end of story. Questioning it will only make you insane. Therefore: Do not question the KWS. Look over there, a dog riding a unicycle!

 

[Stealth Gamer92]

No. The game is clearly laid out. There's no need to infer things that aren't obviously implied in the game, just to bridge the explanation gap. You're scanning the ship you're targeting, that's plain to see. Higher powered ones scan faster, further. They still tell you every warrant anywhere in the galaxy, so using more power doesn't allow them to communicate further.

It's not clearly laid out how the KWS works. What is apparent is the power draw, and it doesn't jive with the functionality considering advanced discovery scanning uses no power. I get why, from a gameplay perspective and I value gameplay over "makes sense". I don't understand how taxing the KWS balances game play. If the warrant money imbalances the game, why is it there to begin with? Why does it only punish power limited ships? Is it intended to be an advanced player device for larger ships?

It's almost as if the game funnels you to larger platforms so you can actually use the combination of devices the game offers. The only thing about that is plenty folks don't care to fly larger ships. I understand you cannot put 10 pounds of dog food into a 5 pound bag, but I'm asking why the KWS is considered that much of a game balancing tool when SCBs, even relatively powerful ones, aren't as taxing.

Why don't we just say video game logic and be done with it. The decription of the KWS is "an antenae used to scan police databases for outstanding warrant's", or it was to that effect anyway, which is what I was going by not how it functioned. It's abvios in a Vulture Asp or anything that performs like those do not need the A grade anyway. Hell until the Federal Dropship or Python you can use E grade with no issues.
.
EDIT: I agree about SCB, but I think SCB are way too overpowered in ED anyway.

 

[Schmack]

Yeah I'm rationalizing. Yeah I used some handwavium. So what? I get you want a KWS and all those SCB's. I was just trying to offer some reasons for rules in a game, in a friendly, hopeful way.

You hate it.... Yeah what ever. Hate it.

I never used a KWS for months after I started playing, and not because I want all those SCBs. I usually don't carry any SCBs, I'll bolt before my shields drop. When examining each module and device, the KWS is an anomaly in it's power consumption. The SCB is just a farce, you pay twice for it; once to "load" it and again to power it. If it's a bank, it should have it's power stored already, not need your plant to operate. Just static switch it over and it would dump it's charge through a high current bus, viola.. shields. But no, you have to power it for some reason, even though you cannot recharge your SCB.

No, the KWS must have been one of those things that barely made it into the game, under caveats that it be very restrictive on other items. If a person wanted to, they could scan a ship, get one lick in.. and watch as the other NPCs destroyed it. You don't need a ton of weapons and shields to get a lot of Cr bounty hunting. Just wondered why the KWS is so power hungry, so you either know or you don't. Sounds like you don't.

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Why don't we just say video game logic and be done with it. The decription of the KWS is "an antenae used to scan police databases for outstanding warrant's", or it was to that effect anyway, which is what I was going by not how it functioned. It's abvios in a Vulture Asp or anything that performs like those do not need the A grade anyway. Hell until the Federal Dropship or Python you can use E grade with no issues.

Why can't you ignore it if you don't want to discuss it? I'm more interested in the mechanics of how the ship works than in the fantasy role playing aspect of the game. If that isn't your ball of wax, there are a ton of other threads for your viewing pleasure. There's no need to put this one to bed. No offense meant.

 

[Mohrgan]

That's exactly what a work around is, compromising by using something less than you should be using.

Your answer to why the KWS requires so much power is that I don't need it.

A workaround is a way to create a working system, from a malfunctioning system. What you are describing is balance, mixed with personal opinion. The KWS works as intended. In my opinion the amount of credits you earn from a KWS, or it's utility, balances the power draw. Your whole arguments is that you don't agree with it's stats....

 

[goemon]

concerning the provided and fun rpg explanations: if the cmdr changes ship, bounties stay the same.

which leads to: the kws does not scan the ship, but the commander. bounties are on commanders head, not on the ship.

from that point of view, whatever rays they use: identifing who is sitting in that ship for sure requires more energy over longer distance, eh?

 

[IronGremlin]

So that there is a meaningful decision and choice to make wheb you're outfitting a ship for bounty hunting, instead of letting it be something you can coincidentally do with any combat ready loadout.

 

[Stealth Gamer92]

Why can't you ignore it if you don't want to discuss it? I'm more interested in the mechanics of how the ship works than in the fantasy role playing aspect of the game. If that isn't your ball of wax, there are a ton of other threads for your viewing pleasure. There's no need to put this one to bed. No offense meant.

I wasn't saying you need to see it my way, was meerly trying to explain how I see it. I'm going by the game's description of ehat KWS is,though IF I were to suggest a change I'd change it to hacking the target's computer and ech higher one to have a stronger program so it draw's more energy to hack at longer distance's but hack faster if you can close to an E grade KWS distance. I took no offense, and intended none toward's you either.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

There is no logic. Nothing about detection range, sensor range, targeting range, sensor scan, KWS and cargo scans, power consumption of those modules makes sense if you think about it. The only explanation is "for gameplay reasons".

'A' rated sensors are a massive power drain, and are able to detect and target a ship up to 7km. Weapons, even the big ballistic ones, have a maximum range of 4km. In both cases, we have better equipment on earth today : we have robotic sniper rifles and artillery pieces able to do better than that (I'm not even talking about long range missiles) and these equipments don't require several MW of power.

Does the very limited sensor range / very limited targeting range / very limited weapon range / huge power consumption make sense, from a realistic point of view ? No it doesn't, but its a game.

Devs probably decided at some point that being able to detect, target, scan and fire at ships at ranges of several thousand kilometers wouldn't add anything to the gameplay.

Check out the "Atomic Rocket" website.

We could get target data at ranges of over 40 km, even with our 1960's era radars in the F-4. IR and visual would work far better in space than 7 km.

It's game mechanics. No dogfights, if it's just a contest between computers and sensors. No dogfights, no sales.

 

[Captain Hammer]

It takes four hours for data to travel from Rosetta (the craft that is pacing a comet in our solar system right now) back to earth with a high powered radio. How long would it take to get a message from the distant factions involved with being wanted? Consider it the price you pay, for it's relative speed.

you sir have just been reped

 

[Quineloe]

you sir have just been reped

May I ask for what?

For ignoring a 13,544 credits scanner pulling a mere 200 KW can do the very same thing?

Doesn't seem to be that expensive or power demanding to connect to every single faction in the galaxy at once.

 

[SirAdelaide]

It's just yet another let down in a sim that doesn't simulate anything.

Everything is fudged, apparently for game play reasons.

Personally, I would find a reasonable sand box space game where everything was based on consistent physics, and cause and effect to be a fun game.

I thought that's what ED would be, and am frustrated that cause and effect are completely divorced, and that the physics that applies in one situation doesn't apply in another.

 

[Schmack]

concerning the provided and fun rpg explanations: if the cmdr changes ship, bounties stay the same.

which leads to: the kws does not scan the ship, but the commander. bounties are on commanders head, not on the ship.

from that point of view, whatever rays they use: identifing who is sitting in that ship for sure requires more energy over longer distance, eh?

When you buy a ship it has to be prepped for you. If it stayed with the commander you wouldn't clear the bounties and warrants when your ship exploded. However I agree that you're sending in pilot name and getting back information from the database.

 

[Schmack]

A workaround is a way to create a working system, from a malfunctioning system. What you are describing is balance, mixed with personal opinion. The KWS works as intended. In my opinion the amount of credits you earn from a KWS, or it's utility, balances the power draw. Your whole arguments is that you don't agree with it's stats....

Well sure it works as intended. It's a video game. You still haven't explained how it affects balance, you just state that it does. Using the Cr argument doesn't explain how it imbalances the game. Why offer a KWS at all if it's going to imbalance the game unless you tax it into oblivion?

 

[Mohrgan]

Well sure it works as intended. It's a video game. You still haven't explained how it affects balance, you just state that it does. Using the Cr argument doesn't explain how it imbalances the game. Why offer a KWS at all if it's going to imbalance the game unless you tax it into oblivion?

The reason you want the KWS is to increase your earnings while you BH. Everyone who BH's potentially wants to equip one. To create a situation where the player has to make choices, they give desirable gear, draw backs. The fighter ships have power issues, and low jump ranges as an example. Cost really isn't an effective limiter in Elite.

Ship outfitting deals with two basic issues: heat, and power distribution. In order to balance the benefit of equipping a KWS they gave it a large power draw, so you can't just say, let's slap one of these on, without considering the draw back. That's what I mean as balance. Forcing you to consider just how you outfit your ship.