Killstealing NPCs and the 10 second rule

[Tar Stone]

The intention of this post is to ask for feedback regarding the current 10 second kill rule for bounties.

It currently works like this:
Player receives the full bounty of a wanted ship upon its destruction, as long as he/she has landed a hit on it within 10 seconds of it blowing up.

Prior to this change the ship which landed the last hit won the bounty.

This change was implemented to address NPC ships swooping in and stealing your kill.

I have found that the 10 second rule has cheapened bounty hunting - it can become a game of tag as you have a large margin to jump into the fray, land a shot and scarper. You can receive the bounty as the target explodes miles behind you.

Should the 10 seconds be reduced?

What amount of time keeps it fair whilst keeping some challenge?

Is this even an issue if you are flying a large well kitted ship?

Is last hit to win better or worse gameplay?

Hoping for honest, useful feedback and biscuits.

 

[Tar Stone]

Bumping for attention.

No biscuits.

 

[Abil Midena]

I think it's fine as is. You can choose to 'poach' kills, or not. I choose not.

I'm no saint though. Sometimes I wait for >dangerous 'condas to go below 50% hull before engaging in the furball. And it still sucks when it focuses its attention on me.

 

[Tar Stone]

Thanks for replying.

Anyone else?

 

[Quineloe]

Sorry, I find your argument to be unrealistic. You're shooting an NPC and then you rely those weak police ships to kill it within 10 seconds? I've seen police AI engaging single, low ranked pirate AI ships for minutes without getting them done. If you take your target to anywhere near what NPCs can do in 10 seconds (I'd say around 5% should be safe) you might as well finish the target yourself. Tagging the target once and then having the other NPCs finish it doesn't work.

 

[Chris M Fortune]

I have no issue with this or even reducing it a little but some kind of mechanism is needed to get around those kill stealing NPCs.

I would rather they implement some self-preservation AI on NPCs so the avoid open lines of fire and ramming during a fight. In 5 encounters around Tanmark Ii have collected a wanted status 3 times from suicidal cops and have taken more shield damage from contact than weapons fire.

 

[Tar Stone]

My experience differs from yours. The last two bounties I've won I was flying away from the scene when the ship popped. Last one was a fed dropship.

 

[Non Grata]

Imo 5s might be better.

 

[Quineloe]

My experience differs from yours. The last two bounties I've won I was flying away from the scene when the ship popped. Last one was a fed dropship.

Can you provide proof of concept via recording or stream?

Or even some sort of details?

 

[CaptainKremmen]

I (still) detest the Ten Second Rule.

It makes every player a Special Snowflake, who wins just by participating.

It makes no sense in the game world that some pilots have Magic Powers of Bounty Claim.

And, yes, it cheapens every bounty that I now can't help but claim.

Can you provide proof of concept via recording or stream?

Or even some sort of details?

Here's one...

[video=youtube_share;gedlD81J7Hk]http://youtu.be/gedlD81J7Hk[/video]

Not a fan.


[edit]Regarding the prior comment...

Sorry, I find your argument to be unrealistic. You're shooting an NPC and then you rely those weak police ships to kill it within 10 seconds? I've seen police AI engaging single, low ranked pirate AI ships for minutes without getting them done. If you take your target to anywhere near what NPCs can do in 10 seconds (I'd say around 5% should be safe) you might as well finish the target yourself. Tagging the target once and then having the other NPCs finish it doesn't work.

What I find unrealistic is that I claim the "kill" after retracting hardpoints when the target Cobra was at 6-7% health! I didn't kill it. I didn't even try.

 

[Abil Midena]

I (still) detest the Ten Second Rule.

It makes every player a Special Snowflake, who wins just by participating.

It makes no sense in the game world that some pilots have Magic Powers of Bounty Claim.

And, yes, it cheapens every bounty that I now can't help but claim.




Here's one...

http://youtu.be/gedlD81J7Hk

Not a fan.


[edit]Regarding the prior comment...



What I find unrealistic is that I claim the "kill" after retracting hardpoints when the target Cobra was at 6-7% health! I didn't kill it. I didn't even try.

Isn't that a choice though? You can choose not to finish the kill, just like you can choose to sit there while the AI takes down a 'conda, then take the last two shots to kill it and get the huge bounty.

If they changed it to 'whoever does the most damage', I think that would work.

 

[Quineloe]

I (still) detest the Ten Second Rule.

It makes every player a Special Snowflake, who wins just by participating.

It makes no sense in the game world that some pilots have Magic Powers of Bounty Claim.

And, yes, it cheapens every bounty that I now can't help but claim.




Here's one...

Not a fan.


[edit]Regarding the prior comment...



What I find unrealistic is that I claim the "kill" after retracting hardpoints when the target Cobra was at 6-7% health! I didn't kill it. I didn't even try.

Oh you shot him down to 5%. Yeah, that 2 seconds you saved there from not finishing him off is really game breaking.

And you risk the AI not finishing him off in time, but after 11 seconds, and you lose everything. Just to save two seconds.

You're raising a massive stink over something and you just can't let it go.

BTW, while writing this post, I also did this:

So big deal.


As for the special snowflake thing - we are. We're pilot's federation. And also, this is a game, so realistic design comes second, fun comes first.

 

[Chris M Fortune]

Isn't that a choice though? You can choose not to finish the kill, just like you can choose to sit there while the AI takes down a 'conda, then take the last two shots to kill it and get the huge bounty.

If they changed it to 'whoever does the most damage', I think that would work.

Or even for the open environment a weighted proportion of the bounty scaled to the damage you inflicted.

An issue here would be shield vs hull damage. How would you balance the contributions from each for the percentage of damage as shields can regenerate you can effectively give well over 100% of the full shield as damage but still not take them down or do any hull damage at all, but this may well be the piece of the puzzle that made the kill possible.

 

[Crystles]

TBH, I dont think the change was bad. It could be a bit more intelligent, such as examining how much damage you did to the target, who engaged first, whether or not they're working together and award bounties appropriately. As long as the bounty is worth splitting, I dont see a problem with it being so.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

Oh you shot him down to 5%. Yeah, that 2 seconds you saved there from not finishing him off is really game breaking.

I'm not sure why you've switched to such a sarcastic, dismissive tone. OP invited comment and opinions.

You're raising a massive stink over something and you just can't let it go.

Actually, I haven't mentioned the Ten Second rule for absolutely ages.

OP invited comment, and I was happy to do so.

You stated that "Tagging the target once and then having the other NPCs finish it doesn't work.", and requested recorded video showing such a thing. I had one, and linked to it.

BTW, while writing this post, I also did this:
http://i.imgur.com/tGwGAnT.png

So big deal.

I'm not exactly sure what you did while writing this post, but is it on-topic? If so, please provide some more details to add to the discussion.


There's no hostility here, except whatever hostility you may bring...

 

[Quineloe]

You stated that "Tagging the target once and then having the other NPCs finish it doesn't work.", and requested recorded video showing such a thing. I had one, and linked to it.

sarcastic and dismissive because you exactly did not do that. You did not just tag it, you took down the shields and shot the target down to 5%. You're only proving that the system is working as intended, not that it can be gamed to an unfair advantage.

And yes, my comparison is highly on topic and valid, because you're going "omg someone made 5k bounty he shouldn't have" when it's just a fraction of what is possible right now. Again, a stink over nothing. And the fact you have some ancient video ready for linkage really does tell how worked up you are over this nothing.

 

[Kaeldian]

I (still) detest the Ten Second Rule.

It makes every player a Special Snowflake, who wins just by participating.

It makes no sense in the game world that some pilots have Magic Powers of Bounty Claim.

Realism < Gameplay. Anytime Realism takes away the fun of the game, you make it take a back seat.

If i might respond with a cliche of my own, not everybody here is "basement dwelling no lifer". If you don't like that response, I suggest you cut it out with the "special snowflake" nonsense.

As for me, I'm okay with the 10 second rule at the moment - it beats getting poached by NPC's after working your ass off.

 

[Tar Stone]

Thanks for all the comments guys. It's fair enough that some will like it, some won't, just make your case for or against it.

Anyone else?

 

[Alex988]

It should be 6.85 seconds. That would be way better....

Pls we don't need working game mechanics changed, let them focus on more important stuff.

 

[Tar Stone]

Well at least this thread has achieved a nice example of the type of people who are in favour of the ten second rule.

Thanks guys.

Hugs.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

It should be 6.85 seconds. That would be way better....

Pls we don't need working game mechanics changed, let them focus on more important stuff.

With respect, the 10 seconds was said to not be set in stone and would be revisited.