Ladder Anxiety / Fear of loss / Crash out Burn out

[TrinityDejavu]

Ladder anxiety, this game has it, typically it's found in games with a 1v1 ladder progression such as starcraft or hearthstone, only in this case 'the game' is your opponent.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Dealing_with_anxiety

It is strikingly easy to crash and burn as a new player, you can easily have many many hours / days of play wiped out by a fumble, judgement error or bug.

Burn out hits hard and early, and hits newer players who are grinding to establish some security the hardest.

Seasoned players who have made the bank are not affected, and (as these forums demonstrate) are prone to mocking and laughing at those who crash out. It doesn't take a genius to see how short lived this will be if that continues.

It's easy to be safe on top the hill, but every player who falls on the climb incurs a very real risk of walking away, and this kills the game.

I would be very interested in stats for the number of people who paid through the nose for beta access, played a lot in short space of time and then suddenly stopped playing and vanished. I know I'm not going to see those stats, but someone should be looking at them.

 

[peterbbb]

This was the nature of the game from its first inception. One keeps the credits made and if one has kept the insurance credits the lost ship and outfitting can be rebought. It is a part of the game. I think it is right that this is so as one does have to play cautiously at first.

 

[sassman]

I traded all the way to a Cobra and arrogantly entered Chango Dock at full speed with engine boost.

Well, you can guess the rest; it's no different than being over confident behind the wheel of a car, except of course a car will have real life consequences.

I'm back in sidewinder and more chastened than before.

I for one support this feature.

 

[azdour]

This was the nature of the game from its first inception. One keeps the credits made and if one has kept the insurance credits the lost ship and outfitting can be rebought. It is a part of the game. I think it is right that this is so as one does have to play cautiously at first.

I agree. This game also requires planning in order to try and avoid such loss like working out insurance for your ship and to make sure you do not spend all your credits on cargo - as it is not only just your mistakes that can lead to ship loss there are other factors as well.

 

[xDreadnoughtx]

I agree there are a few people who are less than forgiving.

They are however vastly outweighed by the helpful forum members.

Failure in Elite is part of the process. Its part of the journey.

If you can learn from the mistakes, learn new skills that make future failure less likely, learn new approaches that reward faster, or are less risky, and you get a buzz from this prolonged slow burn progress, then that is what Elite takes.

Elite cannot be for everyone.

I hope you learn to enjoy elite for that. If you feel you want to ask a question regarding ways of reducing risk in the game, I would be happy to suggest some. Just explain the issues.

Cheers

Poids

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

I would be very interested in stats for the number of people who paid through the nose for beta access, played a lot in short space of time and then suddenly stopped playing and vanished. I know I'm not going to see those stats, but someone should be looking at them.

Obtaining those stats would be difficult - I haven't played myself in days, but crashing doesn't have anything to do with it - I'm doing fine, but stopped for now whilst waiting for beta 2.

Anyway - People simply need to learn to not put all eggs into one basket.

Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

The game has all mechanisms in place to easily avoid being "griefed", so the only risk that remains to crah out is a combination of being greedy and a wee bit mentally challenged at the same time.

I certainly wouldn't want to see the game implementing failsafes to protect people from their own stupidity.

Doing dumb things in a game should have repercussions - it's an essential part of any learning process.

 

[TrinityDejavu]

Thank you, seasoned players for making my point.

 

[gary.brain]

I'm an Alpha player and so far have not burnt out, i'm not even close too it.

The main reason is that I can play this game at my own pace, I just login play for about 30m to 5 hours. There is no pressure to get loot, power level etc. unlike other MMO's.

Even in a group of players as there are no levels there should be none of the "you don't have the right equipment to join us" which again takes the pressure of power leveling.

So like the original where I spend 3 years playing ( and I think the term GRIND came from ) its just about playing the game the way you want to play it.

As for mistakes well that's the name of the game, you want to RISK running a ship loaded with cargo with no spare cash then go ahead but you only have yourself to blame.

 

[TrinityDejavu]

I'm an Alpha player and so far have not burnt out, i'm not even close too it.

Of course you haven't, you're one of the tiny tiny percentage who actually made a forum account and joined in. For every person here there will be a hundred others.

How many copies have been sold, where is everyone ? Not on the forums that's for certain, and I will bet money than most of them aren't even in the game.

This is about retention.

 

[Frank]

I like the advice there to do pushups until exhausted.

<hurrumph>
<grrnnnnnhh!>
<huff puff puff!>

Well, that's almost one.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

Thank you, seasoned players for making my point.

I'm not that seasoned and certainly wasn't when I started. And yes - I have done my fair share of utterly stupid things (boosting in stations, trying to finish that NPC off by ramming because my lasers are overheated etc...etc...) and had my setbacks.

I've learned from them and went on. Certainly wouldn't have liked it any other way.

So what do you suggest? Ingame safety nets or just a nicer attitude towards players who made a stupid mistake?

 

[deusx_ophc]

another alpha.

i have not played much at all. have had lenghty breaks, do keep coming back whenever i fancy and have some spare time.

in that test time, i have gone back to square one a few times, by choice & bug.

anyone testing this beta and not getting over the sidey, hauler & viper in a few days casual play must be seriously impared in either basic computing or attitude.

i suspect often it is the latter

 

[Hootmon]

The whole 'it IS possible to lose' thing is refreshingly retro. Back then many games had failure options, and it was up to you not to fail.

 

[Scourge]

I was under the impression that this is what the insurance mechanic was all about. It makes life significantly easier for contemporary pilots than the original games did. But that's okay, older games often used innate difficulty because there was a hard limit on content. Not that I don't kind of miss the challenging nature of them. Curse you Blood Moneyyyy! Curse Youuuuu!

As long as the insurance thing is explained early on to new players as part of their first steps in the game I see no problems at all with leaving things as is. Once you are aware of how insurance works, you really should have no excuse.

I suppose a warning could be added when you spend too much money on things, The message: "You do not have enough money to pay for insurance! Continue? (y/n)" comes up every time that condition is met but you should be able to disable that somewhere too.

 

[TrinityDejavu]

Sure you have to learn by your mistakes in any game, but from a game design perspective shouldn't that education be along the lines of "don't boost in a station" vs "don't pay for early access ever again".

Burn out teaches the latter.

 

[euclydian]

Without any actual figures, concerns may be unfounded. Besides, we were all new once and yet we're still here.

The game is still missing tutorials and other insurance options anyway. I wouldn't be too concerned.

 

[kilvenny]

Death is quick and sudden but here is my zero risk approach.

Play with the starter Sidewinder and learn to dock, so you can do it each and every time - I spent several hours practicing to the point where I haven't crashed other than deliberately in months. Next, learn to fight in places like the Federal Distress Signal and take the missions offered. Death is cheap - get the replacement free sidewinder. Rinse and repeat and build up a capital base so you can afford cargo, insurance and a few mishaps. Currently I can farm 10K credits in just over half an hour.

Practice in this game makes perfect - nearly!

 

[Dan-Erik]

I would be very interested in stats for the number of people who paid through the nose for beta access, played a lot in short space of time and then suddenly stopped playing and vanished. I know I'm not going to see those stats, but someone should be looking at them.

No, I don't think this would tell you much.

I bought the beta recently. I played through a few scenarios. Then I've logged into the open world a couple of times after that. I realized rather quickly that I can't play this game with a mouse, so I've ordered a joystick and I'm not overly eager to play until I get it. But even after I get it, I will just play to learn flight mechanics etc.

Most people in the beta should be aware that there is a wipe before release. You don't get to keep anything from your efforts. So anyone putting in efforts in the beta, they only do so to gain access to something they want to test. After they have tested it, they will probably stop playing and wait for release.

So the stuff you ask for won't be available from beta players. Although, there might be a point to look at the population after release, and try to identify patterns among those who give up easy and move on. Could be because this wasn't the game for them. Could be because there is something in the game that is a problem. But that is for the future to show.

 

[euclydian]

No, I don't think this would tell you much.

I bought the beta recently. I played through a few scenarios. Then I've logged into the open world a couple of times after that. I realized rather quickly that I can't play this game with a mouse, so I've ordered a joystick and I'm not overly eager to play until I get it. But even after I get it, I will just play to learn flight mechanics etc.

Most people in the beta should be aware that there is a wipe before release. You don't get to keep anything from your efforts. So anyone putting in efforts in the beta, they only do so to gain access to something they want to test. After they have tested it, they will probably stop playing and wait for release.

So the stuff you ask for won't be available from beta players. Although, there might be a point to look at the population after release, and try to identify patterns among those who give up easy and move on. Could be because this wasn't the game for them. Could be because there is something in the game that is a problem. But that is for the future to show.

Yeah, I've bought into a few betas (DayZ, Prison Architect) and barely played them because they aren't finished yet. I imagine Elite is much the same for others.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

The whole 'it IS possible to lose' thing is refreshingly retro. Back then many games had failure options, and it was up to you not to fail.

Indeed - that's one of the things I like in ED. Peter Molyneux held a talk at a GDC over a decade(?) back, basically stating that players don't like to lose and apparently, lots of developers made that their credo.

I like the possibility of severe loss in games - it creates suspense. Games have been designed to hand-hold and force-feed even the worst player victory after victory for so long, there's an entire generation not knowing anything else.

Probably that's why some players consider a game like Dark Souls with it's safe points punishing. Pacman was more punishing than that.