Lagrange Clouds

[JesusRocks1988]

Right, so, first off, I have to ask... How are people finding these things?
I mean, new ones, not the ones listed in the codex.

I have been travelling around the galaxy for the last seven, no, eight months now - in and out of nebulae across multiple different galactic regions. Since the end of DW2 I've gone from The Abyss, through the Formorian Frontier to the Hieronymus Delta; through Newton's Vault, Izanami, skimming the Inner Orion-Perseus Conflux, into Odin's Hold and back through The Core, out to the East through the Empyrean Straits, down the Arcadian Stream and finally, currently, at the far end of the Norma Arm. Searching all kinds of star types, and do you know how many Lagrange Clouds I've found?

None.

I'm actively targeting Nebulae, as I've previously been told they like to hang around the outskirts, and I've been diverting to any Planetary Nebula I've come across. Also trying to target hotter stars like F, A, B or O classes.

I've seen plenty of Anemones in B-class star systems, plenty of Bark Mounds inside nebulae regardless of the star class, parent planet or composition of the body.

But that's it. Am I missing a trick here? Is there some kind of technique to finding these things? The only Lagrange Clouds I've seen in the game since they got put in are ones I've been led to by others.

Any help on this would be appreciated.

Secondly, while I was trying to do some research into how to find these things, I thought I'd check out whether these Lagrange Clouds are real-life astronomical phenomena, but sadly my Google-fu initially turned up nothing and I was starting to lose faith in Frontier's drive to create their galaxy based on real science... Until I came across the newly, tentatively confirmed Kordylewski Clouds that apparently sit at the L4 and L5 points along the Moon's orbital path. And they match the description of the in-game clouds as well - clouds of interplanetary dust that collect at Lagrange Points. And where do we find Lagrange Clouds in-game? Well, from what I've seen, usually at L4 and L5 of any given body, right?

So there they are, in-game Lagrange Clouds = real life Kordylewski Clouds. Not sure why Frontier changed the name though, for clarity maybe?

Although, obviously the biological life inside the clouds in the game are speculative, but gotta give us something to discover, right?

Anyway, faith in Frontier restored, I guess, if only I could find the damn things.

 

[Orvidius]

I think the idea is that "Lagrange Cloud" is a very generic term that they chose to apply. They're mostly hypothetical aside from some minor examples in our own solar system. Just as binary planets are something that should exist out there, on rare occasions, but we don't have very many good examples close to home.

FDev uses science where they can, but it's a game first and simulation second, so they're not afraid to use some speculative ideas too.

But back to the first question, yeah, they're very rare outside of a few specific "hot spots". Back in December, I was finding the "proto-lagrange clouds" about once every 40 jumps while in the Inner Orion Spur, but that seems to have stopped. It's been quite some time since I've stumbled upon one now, so it makes me wonder if in those cases they might not have been pre-determined locations, but rather doled out as people traveled around the region? Either that or I've been extremely unlucky recently, or they have since tweaked their spawn probabilities, or who knows what else.

 

[Rustnsawdust]

Given their rarity it's probably just a matter of luck. I stumbled across one out near the Bubble nebula in a completely untagged system a couple of weeks ago. More remarkable, perhaps, was my second in the Colonia system itself. I'd been in and out of the system a dozen times in a couple of days before I thought to honk the system and pick up some cheap data, and then I spotted the signal at the far end of the FSS frequency scan.

So maybe they're a bit more common than we think, but we're not looking for them in well-explored systems?

 

[Edelgard von Rhein]

There are certainly areas where Notable Stellar Phenomena are more common. I'm heading back to the Bubble after a short stay in Colonia and out there I encountered a handful of them in and around the systems I was jumping between. In contrast, prior to this I had spent a month surveying a sector out in The Void and not found any (nor has anyone else last time I checked the Codex). So I think in some regions of the Milky Way they are much rarer than others.

I have not found any better pattern for finding them than the one you have been using, although if you look at the Codex you can see where some specific types of life like to live, or are never found in. It is just luck whether or not you find anything. Not everything is to be found in every region, though. Maybe it would help to set some other goals that will take you to interesting places, then if you find one, great, if not then you've been making progress in another direction.

 

[marx]

First, Lagrange clouds spawn to be containers for space-borne life. You won't find any empty ones. (Note: according to the Codex, the metallic crystals are formed by life too.) PLCs (Proto-Lagrangian Clouds) appear anywhere, the other colourful kinds only around nebulae.
So, find space-borne life, and you'll find clouds.

That's easier said than done though. NSPs (I'll just refer to space-borne life as this from now on, since NSPs so far are always this) tend to spawn not just only under certain conditions, but only in certain areas within certain regions. If you're looking in the right places, you'll find plenty. However, these right places are pretty much hit-and-miss, and depend on either you seeing them on the Codex, or being very lucky and stumbling into one.
So, what are your choices?

Option one: you pick out species that are already known, and seek out new locations of these. Easy if you're doing it in already-known areas (for example, Dryman's Point is positively littered with Peduncle trees), more difficult if you want to do it elsewhere - but even then, at least you know the spawn conditions.

Option two: try and find something entirely new. Well, basically your best bet is to fly around as much as you can, and if you should happen to win the lottery come across new NSPs, then scan the F out of the surrounding area, especially the similar systems.


The last time something entirely new was found was back in March, I believe, with Aster trees and pods in a small, remote area of the Formorian Frontier. It's possible that I missed something from the Codex though - not like I check it all regularly for new submissions.

 

[Thatchinho]

There are certainly areas where Notable Stellar Phenomena are more common. I'm heading back to the Bubble after a short stay in Colonia and out there I encountered a handful of them in and around the systems I was jumping between. In contrast, prior to this I had spent a month surveying a sector out in The Void and not found any (nor has anyone else last time I checked the Codex). So I think in some regions of the Milky Way they are much rarer than others.

I have not found any better pattern for finding them than the one you have been using, although if you look at the Codex you can see where some specific types of life like to live, or are never found in. It is just luck whether or not you find anything. Not everything is to be found in every region, though. Maybe it would help to set some other goals that will take you to interesting places, then if you find one, great, if not then you've been making progress in another direction.

Bugs may be effecting things slightly. See this for reference:

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/cp6iam

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/cp6iam/found_these_out_in_the_void_a_while_back_the_game/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app


I’m taking from the capitalisation that they mean the region when they say The Void, but there’s always a chance they’re just being metaphorical.

Haven’t seen many other reports of that nature though and it’s the only one I’ve seen from The Void so I’d say it still aligns with your assessment.

(Was actually looking through for something else I’d seen reported on reddit - had forgotten about this one.)

 

[Rustnsawdust]

if you should happen to win the lottery

I think this is a large part of it - the more tickets you buy (more jumps, more systems visited) the better your chances. It's just a numbers game - although there are some guidelines that help, like tubeworms only appearing close to the galactic core, and crystalline thingies only towards the rim. As the OP noted, pumpkins always (so far) seem to be on high-g worlds around B-class stars.

 

[marx]

I think this is a large part of it - the more tickets you buy (more jumps, more systems visited) the better your chances. It's just a numbers game - although there are some guidelines that help, like tubeworms only appearing close to the galactic core, and crystalline thingies only towards the rim. As the OP noted, pumpkins always (so far) seem to be on high-g worlds around B-class stars.

This is only about NSPs in space though. Specifically, the poster asked about Lagrange clouds. Surface biological POIs like tubeworms, anemones and whatnot are an entirely different matter.
If thosre are present in a galactic region, then they should be on all possible candidate planets - if the Codex's listed requirements aren't wrong. (Sometimes, they are.)

 

[Thatchinho]

I wonder to what extent FD have built the locations of the Lagrange clouds on scientific rationale? If so, maybe it’s possible to make some predictions about where they should occur.

Starting points:

- Stable Lagrange points (L4 & L5) only.

- Radiation pressure and solar wind must not exceed the effective ‘gravity’ towards the L point.

- Material must be present to be able to ‘swept up’ and accumulate at the L points

From the latter:

- system must not have experienced any recent ‘clearing’ events (by which I mean a solar mass expulsion or anything which would effectively blast all ‘loose’ material from the system.

- system must have material left over from system formation or must encounter material.

So really we’re talking situations where the rate of accumulation of material exceeds the rate of loss.

That all suggests we can separate things into two aspects:

• background/location conditions
• system specific conditions

Ignoring the latter for the moment, what we’d expect is that the chances of Lagrange clouds forming goes up with:

A. the density of the interstellar medium.

And,

B. the number of events which (non-violently) expose systems to additional material.


So from all that, we can estimate a general impression of a probability distribution by overlaying various different factors:

• the background dust clouds in the galaxy
• ‘old’ areas with material from solar mass expulsions
• areas where the number of ‘clearing’ events wouldn’t be too high.

Translating it into the game, I guess that would mean that the areas with the most chance of L Clouds occuring are:

• boxes of medium mass
• in thick parts of the background dust clouds

With chances of L Cloud occurences in those areas then being tied to:

• old/very old nebulae
• old/very old ‘dark’ regions

Just a starting hypothesis. Would need quite a lot of testing.

 

[Edelgard von Rhein]

Notable Stellar Phenomena can be found in ring systems as well. The Codex entry tells you if they are found at Lagrange Points or elsewhere.
For example, I encountered a K07-type anomaly in the rings of Byaa Thoi MI-B d13-0 3 a (Errant Marches region iirc, it was not far from Star One, right out on the Rim).

 

[JesusRocks1988]

Notable Stellar Phenomena can be found in ring systems as well. The Codex entry tells you if they are found at Lagrange Points or elsewhere.
For example, I encountered a K07-type anomaly in the rings of Byaa Thoi MI-B d13-0 3 a (Errant Marches region iirc, it was not far from Star One, right out on the Rim).

Do ring NSPs show up in the FSS the same way as Lagrange clouds?

 

[Edelgard von Rhein]

Do ring NSPs show up in the FSS the same way as Lagrange clouds?

Yes and they are resolved when you resolve the planet with the rings

 

[JesusRocks1988]

Awesome, thanks for the info and solidarity CMDRs, I'll keep on nebula hopping and see if my luck improves