Large AX Ship: Cutter or Anaconda?

[tolm]

I've been pootling around the station CZs in a FAS relatively happily armed with 2x Mod Plasmas and 2x Mod Shards. But I'm itching for a little more firepower and have had some lag issues recently making hitting Scouts with the Plasma's a little frustrating. I could whack a single C3 EAX MC on the FAS and switch all the below hardpoints to Mod Shards and that would probably work: "easy mode" for whittling Scouts and 50% more 'umph' for clobbering Cyclopsi. I'd miss my Mod Plasmas but - TBH - I think the Shards might be more use against Interceptors, despite the annoying reload!

But I saw someone mentioned an AX Cutter in another thread ... now, I got burned trying an AX Corvette and not being able to outrun a couple of Interceptors who hyperdicted me but the Cutter is much faster so perhaps this is an option with merit?

I think the weapon loadout mentioned was 2x C2 EAX MCs on the wings, a Huge TV Beam and then 4x C2 Mod Shards. Well ... aside from the C7 FSD and other enormous things a Cutter needs, I have the parts to do that. I'd imagine the huge TV Beam and EAX MCs will make short work of Scouts and 4x C2 Mod Shards would pack a serious punch against Interceptors. But I'm unsure on the convergence of the underside C2s and the top C3s having never used a Cutter for combat before?

Alternatively, I could go for two C3 EAX MCs up top and then 3x C2 Mod Shards underneath - which I think would have much better convergence. That also only requires using the C3 Stabiliser, meaning more C5 HRPs for better protection. But I could get that weapon loadout on a Krait Mk II ... so that seems like a wasted opportunity!

And then there's the shields question ... for medium ships (and even a brief dalliance with a Viper MkIV - which was awesome so along as I was only fighting Scouts!), I've found shieldless to be more convenient against Thargoids: easy access to Silent Running for burning off caustic without losing protection and less "pip juggling". But would a 8C Bi-Weave and a single cell bank be worthwhile on a Cutter? If so - I'd assume decontamination limpets would be sensible to avoid dropping shields?

And then I started wondering if an Anaconda would make more sense?!

So - anyone with some Large Ship AX Experience who can offer some thoughts?

o7

 

[Bravo17]

I'd assume decontamination limpets would be sensible to avoid dropping shields?

I always find decon limpets too much of a hassle, especially in a CZ with multiple scouts and interceptors. I usually take more damage temporarily untargeting and launching the limpet than simply heating up and burning it off. You also have to waste 2 slots - one for cargo for the limpets and one for the controller itself, which will reduce your hull protection.

 

[Jack Winter]

I saw this the other day, of course a skilled pilot too.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWVfT6pSECQ

 

[nanothargon]

That’s my cutter Re: convergance, the top 2 “large” and bottom 2 “medium” are fine. The “huge” will even work with the bottom 2.

Convergange of everything apart from the nacelles is fine, ish : http://a.teall.info/edsa/

Re: shields, you don’t need to use shields on a cutter but imo it’s a waste not to, since it’s got the best shields in the game. AX cutters are more about stamina than elegance; you’ll take damage but then, you can soak a lot. It’s very forgiving for long sessions in mixed axcz style fights.

Also - it’s easy to get to ~5k armour and ~5k shields; once you have g5 dirty drag drives, there’s no ax fight you can’t run from, so although the rebuy is alarmingly big, you won’t lose the ship too often. In contrast, although they each have advantages, anaconda, corvette and t-10 are all risky imo because it’s easy to get stuck in a fight you can’t run from.

It’s great to go with the meta shieldless chief, which is kind of like a dashing silk shirt and rapier; the cutter is more of a full plate over chain, broadsword and shield, on a horse, kind of affair.

 

[CMDR The Riz]

But I saw someone mentioned an AX Cutter in another thread ... now, I got burned trying an AX Corvette and not being able to outrun a couple of Interceptors who hyperdicted me but the Cutter is much faster so perhaps this is an option with merit?

A Cutter will be able to outrun everything but a Basilisk when flown correctly, but mindful of its inertia: it's fast, but it takes time for it to stop or change directions. This can get you into trouble if you're trying to avoid a Lightning Attack.

I think the weapon loadout mentioned was 2x C2 EAX MCs on the wings, a Huge TV Beam and then 4x C2 Mod Shards. Well ... aside from the C7 FSD and other enormous things a Cutter needs, I have the parts to do that. I'd imagine the huge TV Beam and EAX MCs will make short work of Scouts and 4x C2 Mod Shards would pack a serious punch against Interceptors. But I'm unsure on the convergence of the underside C2s and the top C3s having never used a Cutter for combat before?

The 5 centerline Hardpoints (the 2x C3s, 2x C2s and the Huge) might not converge on a single point closer than about 1.5 km, but they are spaced so that they all can always hit a Scout at the same time, if you attack them from the top and bottom.

I'd also strongly recommend dropping the Multicannons and go all-in with Guardian weapons. Salvation weapons and standard Gauss Cannons can all make quick work of scouts, and the Cutter is a very stable Fixed weapon platform, albeit a bit slow in the pitch department at times.

And then there's the shields question ... for medium ships (and even a brief dalliance with a Viper MkIV - which was awesome so along as I was only fighting Scouts!), I've found shieldless to be more convenient against Thargoids: easy access to Silent Running for burning off caustic without losing protection and less "pip juggling". But would a 8C Bi-Weave and a single cell bank be worthwhile on a Cutter? If so - I'd assume decontamination limpets would be sensible to avoid dropping shields?

Bi-Weaves on a Cutter are a godsend in AX CZs: mod one with Reinforced | Low Draw and toss in a pair of Heavy Duty | Super Conduits Shield Boosters and you should be able to facetank a Cyclops with no problems. You can take quite a beating from Basilisks and even Medusae too, but I'd recommend using heatsinks to avoid the majority of the incoming fire for them.

They do strain the Systems Capacitor on your Distributor, so you'll need to be more vigilant on Pip management. It'll be tough at first, but it's not impossible to overcome.

A Shield Cell Bank would certainly help keep the Bi-Weaves up under fire, but that'll likely push you to use an Overcharged Powerplant. That could be problematic as they produce more waste heat per MW of power used (and thus you are even more noticeable to the Thargoids due to higher base thermal emissions) and have lower integrity than an Armored | Monstered Powerplant.

Burning off the Thargoo is simply a matter of firing a few Salvation weapons a couple of times to get your thermal levels above 120% for several seconds, so I don't have them on my Cutter build.

And then I started wondering if an Anaconda would make more sense?!

Anacondas have better hardpoint convergence, better rotationals, a larger Power Distributor, and can fit more HRPs, but they're much slower than a Cutter. Many swear by them, but I have a Cutter, so...

So - anyone with some Large Ship AX Experience who can offer some thoughts?

o7

I have quite a bit of experience in my Cutter for AX combat now, and it has become my mainline AX fighter. This is the build I run:

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

And this is it and several variations of it (4 SPC, 5 SPC and 6 SPC setups) in action:

Spoiler: AX Cutter Videos

4 Basic Ammo SPCs 3-shotting a Cyclops:

Source: https://youtu.be/QwKpGoLVy-I


5 Basic Ammo SPCs vs. Scouts and Cyclopes:

Source: https://youtu.be/PICPCn4JdJ0


6 Basic Ammo SPCs vs. Everything, even a Hydra (but... the first heart only because I... um... sorta... lost the Hydra)

Source: https://youtu.be/JdMfz0-IW4A

 

[tolm]

Awesome - thanks for the replies!

I just kitted out a Cutter with “whatever I had lying around” as it were … my poor Corvette lost its lovely power plant …

5.2k hull, no shields
2x 5D plus 2 smaller Guardian MRPs
2x C2 EAX MC, 1x C3 LR TV Beam (in the huge slot - just what I had!)
2x C2 Mod Plasmas in the lower C2s
2x C2 Mod Shards in the top C3s

Took it to a CZ that had a lot of CMDRs in it so it was pretty low-risk …

Hard point placements are awesome: the beam and MCs could hit Scouts no problem and I was even able to land some plasma shots as well.

Top C3s worked very well for a pair of shards for sniping hearts.

Speed is good. Had to outrun a couple of Interceptors whilst jumping from system to system just outfitting the ship!!! No problem.

Survivability? I’m not sure it’s much better than the medium ships I’ve been flying. Yeh, it’s tougher but it’s also bigger so it gets hit more. And it turns like a drunkard round a lamppost … I had fun but it required quite the adjustment!!

Unfortunately when 3 Hydras rocked up I was woefully unfamiliar with my new ship to be n any position to help … got absolutely toasted by one of them and it’s swarm and fled home on 4% hull …

Gonna try a Krait Mk II with 2x C3 EAX MC and 3x Mod Shards … if that’s good, I can give all my other ships their bits back … otherwise it’s Bi-Weave time on the Cutter!!

 

[Blaggerdy]

You might find this site helpful for checking weapon convergence and which slots to match up

Elite Dangerous Ship Anatomy

Gives you info on how hard points, utilities and other viable modules and parts are placed on each ship. Elite Dangerous Ship Blueprints.

a.teall.info

 

[Tividar]

Awesome - thanks for the replies!

I just kitted out a Cutter with “whatever I had lying around” as it were … my poor Corvette lost its lovely power plant …

5.2k hull, no shields
2x 5D plus 2 smaller Guardian MRPs
2x C2 EAX MC, 1x C3 LR TV Beam (in the huge slot - just what I had!)
2x C2 Mod Plasmas in the lower C2s
2x C2 Mod Shards in the top C3s

Took it to a CZ that had a lot of CMDRs in it so it was pretty low-risk …

Hard point placements are awesome: the beam and MCs could hit Scouts no problem and I was even able to land some plasma shots as well.

Top C3s worked very well for a pair of shards for sniping hearts.

Speed is good. Had to outrun a couple of Interceptors whilst jumping from system to system just outfitting the ship!!! No problem.

Survivability? I’m not sure it’s much better than the medium ships I’ve been flying. Yeh, it’s tougher but it’s also bigger so it gets hit more. And it turns like a drunkard round a lamppost … I had fun but it required quite the adjustment!!

Unfortunately when 3 Hydras rocked up I was woefully unfamiliar with my new ship to be n any position to help … got absolutely toasted by one of them and it’s swarm and fled home on 4% hull …

Gonna try a Krait Mk II with 2x C3 EAX MC and 3x Mod Shards … if that’s good, I can give all my other ships their bits back … otherwise it’s Bi-Weave time on the Cutter!!

Some criticize the convergence on the nacelles, but they're great platforms for Gimbled Long Range Thermal Vents (for planetary) or Flak Cannon (for anti-Thargons).

 

[tolm]

Well, I lost my first Cutter ... 38 million rebuy!!! Luckily I'd made plenty before that so still up about 100 mil overall. And then I went back and did it all again, stuck around to "help" with the Hydras and netted another 180 million. I'll call that a win ...

Juries out on the Cutter, though. I'm currently running:

Weapons:

• 2x C1 LR TV Beams on the nacelles
• 2x C3 EAC MCs on the roof
• 3x C2 Mod Shards underneath

Shields: ~2500

• 8C Bi-Weave with G4 Reinforced
• 2x 1A Shield Boosters with G5 Heavy Duty + Super Caps

Hull: ~4600

• G3 Heavy Duty Armour (need some mats to take this further!)
• 2x 5D HRPs with G5 Heavy Duty and Deep Plating
• 3x 5D Guardian HRPs

Protection / Repair:

• 5D and 1D Guardian Module Reinforcement (shield absorbs a lot of the damage already)
• 8E Cargo Rack + 3C Xeno Limpet Controller
• 6A AFMU

Things I Like:

• Hardpoint placement is excellent
• Fast enough to Brave Sir Robin it if needed
• Shields absorb the "background noise" damage from Scouts

Things I Don't Like:

• Takes longer to use a decontamination limpet than the "Silent Running / Overheat" approach but otherwise you lose shileds which take an AGE to come back
• Manouvreabilty (lack of) + Drift == caustic chaos!!

That last point is key: I seem to get hit by caustic missiles ALL THE TIME. In the Hydra fights, I'll only just have finished decontaminating and then coming back when another batch of missiles is launched and they always seem to hit me?! Do they preferentially target large ships?!

 

[nanothargon]

I also get hit pretty often with caustic missiles; there’s a synergy with gauss and shield cells in these builds that helps; I find I can often just fire 4 gauss at something useful to clear it, or opportunistically fire a shield cell if I’m not. Best option is; don’t get hit, but - firing weapons to clear it is second best imo.

 

[Northpin]

Well, I lost my first Cutter ... 38 million rebuy!!! Luckily I'd made plenty before that so still up about 100 mil overall. And then I went back and did it all again, stuck around to "help" with the Hydras and netted another 180 million. I'll call that a win ...

Juries out on the Cutter, though. I'm currently running:

Weapons:

• 2x C1 LR TV Beams on the nacelles
• 2x C3 EAC MCs on the roof
• 3x C2 Mod Shards underneath

Shields: ~2500

• 8C Bi-Weave with G4 Reinforced
• 2x 1A Shield Boosters with G5 Heavy Duty + Super Caps

Hull: ~4600

• G3 Heavy Duty Armour (need some mats to take this further!)
• 2x 5D HRPs with G5 Heavy Duty and Deep Plating
• 3x 5D Guardian HRPs

Protection / Repair:

• 5D and 1D Guardian Module Reinforcement (shield absorbs a lot of the damage already)
• 8E Cargo Rack + 3C Xeno Limpet Controller
• 6A AFMU

Things I Like:

• Hardpoint placement is excellent
• Fast enough to Brave Sir Robin it if needed
• Shields absorb the "background noise" damage from Scouts

Things I Don't Like:

• Takes longer to use a decontamination limpet than the "Silent Running / Overheat" approach but otherwise you lose shileds which take an AGE to come back
• Manouvreabilty (lack of) + Drift == caustic chaos!!

That last point is key: I seem to get hit by caustic missiles ALL THE TIME. In the Hydra fights, I'll only just have finished decontaminating and then coming back when another batch of missiles is launched and they always seem to hit me?! Do they preferentially target large ships?!

Instead of 8E Cargo and 3C Xeno MLC, it would be better to use a size 7C ULC and a size 6 Cargo rack.
You get better decon, repairs, etc.

This is my Cutter build, but i mostly use my CondaGib lately and eventually i will test a shielded version of the CondaGib (no limpets at all, decon is done by spamming the shards )

 

[tolm]

Instead of 8E Cargo and 3C Xeno MLC, it would be better to use a size 7C ULC and a size 6 Cargo rack.
You get better decon, repairs, etc.

This is my Cutter build, but i mostly use my CondaGib lately and eventually i will test a shielded version of the CondaGib (no limpets at all, decon is done by spamming the shards )

Yeh - I switched from a 7C Limpet / 6E Cargo to the 3C / 8E because I felt I was running out of limpets too quickly but there were definitely times with the 3C controller where it actually took a couple of limpets just for one decontamination so I’ll probably switch back.

 

[BeyondAeon]

But I saw someone mentioned an AX Cutter in another thread ... now, I got burned trying an AX Corvette and not being able to outrun a couple of Interceptors who hyperdicted me but the Cutter is much faster so perhaps this is an option with merit?



So - anyone with some Large Ship AX Experience who can offer some thoughts?

o7

I Personally have, 4 AX Cutters 2 AX Kraits, 1 AX Gunship and an AX sidewinder (don't ask)

I use the Cutters 99% of the time.
My AX Cutters boost to 420/450, I can get away from Hyperdictions with ease.
I did spec an AX Anaconda but it looked too slow on paper.

Cutter is Good , just Don't explode too often.

 

[CMDR The Riz]

an AX sidewinder (don't ask)

I strapped a Salvation Plasma Charger and a regular Gauss Cannon to a Courier and ran into an AX CZ - I totally understand

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

FdL.

 

[BDelacroix]

Been using an ax cutter since the thargoids started really. I'm no gluttonyfang but it works.
I have to say I don't like the "burn it off" method as that breaks modules faster and once a guass or salvation gauss module starts malfunctioning you get near random firing whenever you try to shoot.
I find no issue with having a decon (anti xeno really) controller and a bit of space for limpets.

 

[Neilski]

AX noob here: I've never yet done more than barely dip a toe into AX combat (plenty of general PvE combat experience though).
I have a vague suspicion that many of the AX guides out there will be out of date given the recent changes. Pointers to new material gratefully received, particularly if they are suited to someone who just wants to give it a go without the grinding that I dimly recall is required for much of the AX kit.
(I hope this isn't hijacking the thread, since I do have an interest in using one of my larger ships for this if that's easy to refit for AX, e.g. Cutter or Conda.)
[edit: I am of course motivated to ask this question because of the current "somewhat increased" focus on AX ]

 

[BDelacroix]

AX noob here: I've never yet done more than barely dip a toe into AX combat (plenty of general PvE combat experience though).
I have a vague suspicion that many of the AX guides out there will be out of date given the recent changes. Pointers to new material gratefully received, particularly if they are suited to someone who just wants to give it a go without the grinding that I dimly recall is required for much of the AX kit.
(I hope this isn't hijacking the thread, since I do have an interest in using one of my larger ships for this if that's easy to refit for AX, e.g. Cutter or Conda.)
[edit: I am of course motivated to ask this question because of the current "somewhat increased" focus on AX ]

No grinding required now. That's for if you decide you want the blue weapons. You can just buy the human anitxeno weapons. Enhanced edition. The advanced scanner will help you aim those guns (if they aren't fixed) at the hearts.

I think the "guides" have kept up for the most part. Older stuff was made just for the dueling days. In short, what is different is you don't control the battle anymore but you have others around as well. You don't have to run away to repair etc, but knowing solo skills can come in handy if everyone else runs away.
Mostly all I've done to adapt is placed two ax multicannons on and made two of my empty slots to 2 medium heat vent beams. Alternately, bring flak for space fights to get rid of the swarms.

Now, in my case, I do have salvation gauss for main guns.

 

[photomankc]

E-Shards have really let the Clipper become a viable bird up to Medusa (well at my skill level). I'll get beat up but I CAN do it. Gauss was just not great with convergence issues but shards really work well. Not a REAL large ship and with shards you'll need to go shieldless because you gotta pop heat sinks.... lots of heat sinks. But I can now exceptionally casually dispatch Cyclops. Like, If they look at me sideways I'll kill them and not loose 8% hull in the process. Basi's are a good fight and they absolutely love to turn and run the moment you exert so they can force two attack runs early on. Medusa are a serious challenge and 1v1 I'm still as likely to have to run as finish that fight. But I do far better than I ever did with gauss.

What it really shines for is letting the guys with AXMC's get some work done. It can exert with ease. Then wing members with AXMCs can get in there and dice up those flower petals. Love that there are some new ways to approach things shaping up now. Last night met a random in his Diamond Back with AXMCs. That was a lot of fun.


I'd be partial to the Cutter as per OP's question. The Anaconda CRAWLS and I watch them go boom a lot since they often can not escape the fight if they get into trouble. Cutter's problem is it's lack of lateral authority. Odyssey took what was bad before and made it horrendous. Hard to evade fire if you can't get enough down thrust get out of the way.

 

[Moriarte]

So - anyone with some Large Ship AX Experience who can offer some thoughts?

Cutter is the versatile one, not necessarily the strongest. Looking at how things play out in the field, I’d say AX Cutter is overkill for anything smaller than Hydra in the hands of experienced solo fighter. But anaconda is tiny bit stronger. (Fly the cutter myself) I observed conda has speed limitations, some fights can deteriorate very quickly. Happened to me too! Always had the speed to get away though, never lost my cutter yet. Due to inertia and raw speed, cutter is actually very easy to navigate in ax battlefield, even planet-side. Of Course it demands flying finesse. It ain’t your chieftain, where you control, with ease, to within 100 meters of desired distance. Both FA/on and FA/off should be top notch to drive the beast against fast interceptors and not be the flying brick, which goes in 10 km orbits around the fight. It’s the Cutter, dammit! You need to be a great bus driver to excel at that one.

Hydras are tricky, whichever ship you fly. But, with superior numbers easily available to attentive Inara readers, 5-6 human ships usually make hydra run squealing, constantly resetting shields and launching triple the amount of caustic missiles. Then they explode, within 10 minutes. I’ve seen a dozen commanders dispatch a hydra a couple of times. It melted like chocolate. Something to see… So, it’s not that important, which ship to fly when heading out to crowded AX party. Pick the one you’d enjoy flying.

I’d say anaconda, cutter and corvette all have place on the ax battlefield. They are the domination trio. They strengthen each other. Honourable mention to those rare AX shieldless chieftains. Great heart snipers! I’ve seen clippers (yay!), FGS’s, kraits, ax Vipers and all sorts of crazy ax frankensteins, which brings warmth to the heart of an old pilot.

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

^^ Here’s what I use