Large Habitat Upkeep...

Yeah, so- it's been said already, but here I am bringing this issue back to light, because it's still a pretty big problem.

As it stands, large habitats in which you want animals to be able to disperse throughout the habitat with feeders in multiple locations, etc is... completely unsustainable. Animals end up starving to death because the keepers take literally forever to reach all the feeders, and the path they take is usually wildly inefficient.

We need a way to make feeding different groups of animals within a large habitat sustainable- and I propose: multiple habitat staff entrances. There is really no good reason why we should only be allowed one single entrance, especially for a massive habitat that, for example, may have feeders on opposite ends.

I tend to have multiple species in a large, zoo-sized habitat. I tend to mix herbivores and predators, and like to keep their populations somewhat "separate", in that the wolves' den is in one spot, as is all their feeders, and the bison are across the river, where their feeders and whatnot are. This works to keep the populations within their own general range- they still explore and cross paths, but you can notice that they do tend to frequent the area their feeders are placed, and it looks nice and is fun to watch the animals being "wild". The problem is, however, that a lot of the time, the animals begin to starve, because the keepers can't efficiently get to all the feeders in a timely manner- because they wait until animals are already "hungry" to even START feeding, and by the time the keeper reaches the last feeder, animals are starving. And this isn't just a problem with wildlife park builds, but ANY build in which large habitats are utilized.

We need a way to allow keepers to be able to enter the exhibit through multiple access points to get to feeders as efficiently as possible, AND more than one keeper should be able to feed at a time. Hell, it'd even be much simpler and less frustrating to deal with if you could specifically designate certain keepers to feed certain species within a habitat, so that MULTIPLE keepers could spread out to feed their respective assigned species. One keeper feeds the wolves, the other feeds the bison, another feeds the sheep, whatever.

As for the multiple access points- if there is a specific reason why there can only be one main exhibit entrance gate, then there should be another, extra type of gate that can be placed that staff will actively use as an entrance point, and it should be possible to assign certain staff members to ONLY enter through a particular gate, along with using a particular feeding station, etc for optimal feeding efficiency.

Staff member one is assigned to the northern habitat entrance, assigned species is bison, uses the keeper hut etc on the northern side. Keeper always enters through that entrance and goes right to feeding the bison at their respective feeders.

Staff member two is assigned to the southern habitat entrance, assigned species is wolves, uses southern keeper hut. Keeper always enters through that entrance and goes right to feeding wolves at their respective feeders.

This would be 10x more efficient and less aggravating to deal with than the current system and would solve a LOT of problems.
 
Sorry but it basically sounds like you are asking them to make loads of changes to the game to suit your quite specific requirements. What you are asking for is actually quite a big change to the AI complexity too. Yes it is all achievable in isolation but how will the additional load effect performance in a larger zoos? I run some pretty large multi specifies enclosures and dont have an issue keeping things fed, how big are yours?

"This would be 10x more efficient and less aggravating to deal with than the current system and would solve a LOT of problems" - a lot of problem the majority of people are not having......
 
Do you have 30 different animals in one habitat like the steam achievment asks you for? I never tried that, because I see problems through the things the OP describes too.
I never saw more then 2 keepers in one habitat and they never happend to do the same thing/task at the same time... for example it would be better if 2 keepers are feeding animals to fill up all the bowls faster and 2-3 make the cleaning to get the habitat clean faster... without spending years in that habitat. I always just saw one feeding and another cleaning... which takes to long and is ineffectiv in a big habitat especially since we are asked for it by the achievments.
 
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Just because YOU are not seeing issues in your habitats doesn't mean a lot of others aren't. I have seen many threads on these forums before I ever made this post that talk about this as well, numerous people have complained about keeper inefficiency in large habitats. This isn't an isolated case, and it isn't unique to my particular style of gameplay, either.
 
Getting the achievement for 30 animals in one habitat was not difficult, to be honest. I got it in one of the campaign scenarios when I was new enough to the game that I didn't realize some people question whether it's even obtainable...without trying.

Keeping the animals fed was not the problem I had with it; The challenge was keeping the dam enclosure clean. And more than 2 keepers will enter a habitat at once. I had 3 assigned to the habitat in question and there were times when all 3 were inside at once.
 
I got the achievement for 30 animals in one of my franchise zoos.. Feeding wasn't an issue but it required 1 extra zookeeper just for cleaning..
It really depends of the type of animal,..

Just because YOU are not seeing issues in your habitats doesn't mean a lot of others aren't. I have seen many threads on these forums before I ever made this post that talk about this as well, numerous people have complained about keeper inefficiency in large habitats. This isn't an isolated case, and it isn't unique to my particular style of gameplay, either.

Well, in almost every post we don't see any screenshots of their habitat or even the size of that habitat..
Also a lot of people are not seeing these issues, and a lot are having these issues.
Basically what you are asking is a very detailed feeding feature within a habitat, don't see that happening..
 
Just because YOU are not seeing issues in your habitats doesn't mean a lot of others aren't. I have seen many threads on these forums before I ever made this post that talk about this as well, numerous people have complained about keeper inefficiency in large habitats. This isn't an isolated case, and it isn't unique to my particular style of gameplay, either.
It 100% IS due to your style of gameplay, like it is the other who have had this problem, the keepers in the game work the way they do, you have chosen to build an enclosure which they cannot service. I havent seen this issue because i understand the limitations of the AI and build accordingly. Of COURSE there is going to be an issue because they keepers work the way they do. Keepers only work one at at time, on each job, that is how it works. So due to this there will be a definitive point when the size of the habitat becomes too large for one keepers to handle. Which means that habitat is too big for the game to deal with. So you have two choices - complain to get major changes to the AI, which probably cant be done because the performance overhead will be too much or accept that the style of zoo / habitat you want to build doesnt fit into the game mechanics and change it to something smaller.

This is a zoo game, if you want to create what is basically a massive safari habitat to have to accept the limitations.
 
Does the size of the habitat even matter? Fact is, people are being limited in creativity, which was one of the main things about the game as a selling point, by being unable to sustainably keep as large a habitat for their animals as they wish, since there are literally no options to manage keepers besides "this one feeds" and "this one cleans" and "this one works this habitat".

There is NO reason why multiple keepers should not be able to tend to a large habitat at a time. And further, there is NO reason why we should be limited to only one single access point. Sure, the "feed specific animals" thing may be a bit over-detailed, but when you have a habitat full of multiple species that can't all eat the same stuff, it'd be extremely useful to make sure all animals get fed at the same time with multiple keepers doing the job and without having the issue of keepers crossing an entire ass habitat MULTIPLE TIMES just to finally finish feeding all the animals, because they're too stupid to take an efficient path through the enclosure and feed as they pass.
 
Does the size of the habitat even matter? Fact is, people are being limited in creativity, which was one of the main things about the game as a selling point, by being unable to sustainably keep as large a habitat for their animals as they wish, since there are literally no options to manage keepers besides "this one feeds" and "this one cleans" and "this one works this habitat".

There is NO reason why multiple keepers should not be able to tend to a large habitat at a time. And further, there is NO reason why we should be limited to only one single access point. Sure, the "feed specific animals" thing may be a bit over-detailed, but when you have a habitat full of multiple species that can't all eat the same stuff, it'd be extremely useful to make sure all animals get fed at the same time with multiple keepers doing the job and without having the issue of keepers crossing an entire habitat MULTIPLE TIMES just to finally finish feeding all the animals, because they're too stupid to take an efficient path through the enclosure and feed as they pass.
There is a MASSIVE reason why multiple keepers do not tend habitats, AI performance. Which is probably why it is not in already. Do you have any experience in coding AI? Because there is a MASSIVE difference in the complexity between;
  • one keepers comes in to do one job
  • several keepers working together to complete multiple jobs
As soon as you start asking keepers to work together on job you are adding a whole level of AI interactions in a game which is already pushing the limits of concurrent AI interactions. Whilst I would love to see further improvements to the AI, I cant see this happening as they would have done it already and to solve what is a pretty niche issue.
 
Then there's a really simple solution to that.

Make it toggleable. That's literally all it takes. Add a toggleable option for advanced keeper options, if it starts to impact performance in your large zoo, you can turn it off, while the people who would benefit from it(which is more people than you seem to think) would be free to use the feature.

Also, the keepers literally do not have to acknowledge eachother with this system. Their AI does not have to interact. They'd all essentially be taking on their own individual tasks, just within the same habitats, with certain jobs assigned to each keeper similar to work zones. That's it. It's no different, AI-wise, really, than having multiple habitats with keepers tending to them at the same time, which already happens. The only difference would be that more keepers could tend to a single habitat if you assign them to do so.
 
All games have limitations...when you play a game, you have two options....accept how the game works and play accordingly or demand a change to where the game caters to what you want and expect it to do. Guess which one actually works best?

I completely understand wanting the developers to make a change to accommodate alternative playstyles, but you also need to understand that it is simply not possible for them to make every change that every user wants. Systems have limitations in what they can handle and the developers have to make the hard choices.

My advice is to learn how the game actually works NOW and design habitats accordingly while holding out some hope that maybe your concern will be addressed in the future; just don't count on it. I make very large, multi-species habitats in all my zoos that work fine. You just have to limit the total populations, train your keepers, and be smart about placement of the access gate and food trays/enrichments.
 
Here is one of the main problems i have noticed when it comes to big habitats.. The animals drop in social so fast just because they went across the habitat to play with a toy, or chew on that feeder box.. typically herds like to stick together.. so I don't completely understand the reasoning behind a drop in social like the game displays. I honestly think it is to control the size of habitat and nothing but.. Imo.
 
Can yall just shut up and stop shutting down every suggestion I make with "stOP TRYING TO MAKE THE DEVS DO WHAT YOU WANT".

They have these forums for a reason: /Feedback/ and /Suggestions/. People are allowed to make suggestions for changes to the game, and just because YOU don't think a suggested thing is important because you wouldn't use it doesn't mean it's invalid and the person should stop suggesting it.

I'm not making demands in the OP. I'm not trying to FORCE them to do anything. I'm literally just giving feedback on a game mechanic and suggesting a change to give people more creative freedom in building their zoos and be able to still efficiently run things.

Let people suggest things and give feedback and if you don't think the idea is "needed"... maybe let the damn developers decide that for themselves and stop commenting to tell people their suggestions are wrong.
 
Then there's a really simple solution to that.

Make it toggleable. That's literally all it takes. Add a toggleable option for advanced keeper options, if it starts to impact performance in your large zoo, you can turn it off, while the people who would benefit from it(which is more people than you seem to think) would be free to use the feature.

Also, the keepers literally do not have to acknowledge eachother with this system. Their AI does not have to interact. They'd all essentially be taking on their own individual tasks, just within the same habitats, with certain jobs assigned to each keeper similar to work zones. That's it. It's no different, AI-wise, really, than having multiple habitats with keepers tending to them at the same time, which already happens. The only difference would be that more keepers could tend to a single habitat if you assign them to do so.
Yes the AI does have to interact, it has to split the jobs, so you are not only asking the keepers to do their job but see what other job are already being done. Either that or you need to be able to assign certain keepers to certain food trays etc. Which is a big level of extra complexity to what they have now. Also by adding it you completely change the way keepers currently work (from being assigned to a habitat, to being assigned to specific job within a habitat) this opens another can of worms. What if the person you have assigned to certain feeders is doing something else, or on a break, do those assigned feeder not get filled? A lot more too this than you think tbh.
 
Can yall just shut up and stop shutting down every suggestion I make with "stOP TRYING TO MAKE THE DEVS DO WHAT YOU WANT".

They have these forums for a reason: /Feedback/ and /Suggestions/. People are allowed to make suggestions for changes to the game, and just because YOU don't think a suggested thing is important because you wouldn't use it doesn't mean it's invalid and the person should stop suggesting it.
This thread is in "general discussion" not "suggestions"....of course people are discussing it. Even over in suggestions people are going to chime in with opinions, that's the point of a forum but here, it's going to be even more open for debate.

I already said it, but I'm going to say it again... the developers cannot do everything that every player wants. People who don't agree with a suggestion have every right to express that opinion because developers doing what you want takes away from time they could be doing something else that the other people want.

Edit: I should also mention, I personally support the idea of allowing multiple habitat entrance gates. I'd like it to be possible myself.
 
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Can yall just shut up and stop shutting down every suggestion I make with "stOP TRYING TO MAKE THE DEVS DO WHAT YOU WANT".

They have these forums for a reason: /Feedback/ and /Suggestions/. People are allowed to make suggestions for changes to the game, and just because YOU don't think a suggested thing is important because you wouldn't use it doesn't mean it's invalid and the person should stop suggesting it.

I'm not making demands in the OP. I'm not trying to FORCE them to do anything. I'm literally just giving feedback on a game mechanic and suggesting a change to give people more creative freedom in building their zoos and be able to still efficiently run things.

Let people suggest things and give feedback and if you don't think the idea is "needed"... maybe let the damn developers decide that for themselves and stop commenting to tell people their suggestions are wrong.
Ah sorry, didnt realise this was one of those threads where you are not allowed to give feedback you should have said in the first post, I would have left it alone. Just trying to point out why the development decisions have been made, and the reasons they will probably not change. I would have no issues with more advanced keepers AI, just dont think it is going to happen as the game struggles with performance as it is. What you are asking for is a pretty big change for something which is not a problem for the majority of players IMHO.

As someone has said, as well as 'Feedback and Suggestions' they also have 'discussion' which is where you posted.
 
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Getting the achievement for 30 animals in one habitat was not difficult, to be honest. I got it in one of the campaign scenarios when I was new enough to the game that I didn't realize some people question whether it's even obtainable...without trying.

Keeping the animals fed was not the problem I had with it; The challenge was keeping the dam enclosure clean. And more than 2 keepers will enter a habitat at once. I had 3 assigned to the habitat in question and there were times when all 3 were inside at once.
Oh good to know, thx @Jaggid Edje I wasn't confident enough to try it since I had problems with much smaller habitats already 😅 and I really never saw more then two keepers, even when 4 where assigned. Did they keep track on same tasks while the 3 where in the habitat, or was 1 keeper leaving, while the other 2 ones cleaned and putted food in the bowls? Maybe you could see that, that's why I ask. I really hope that more then just one keeper can clean a habitat at the same time - I would be really happy to read that. 😊
 
Oh good to know, thx @Jaggid Edje I wasn't confident enough to try it since I had problems with much smaller habitats already 😅 and I really never saw more then two keepers, even when 4 where assigned. Did they keep track on same tasks while the 3 where in the habitat, or was 1 keeper leaving, while the other 2 ones cleaned and putted food in the bowls? Maybe you could see that, that's why I ask. I really hope that more then just one keeper can clean a habitat at the same time - I would be really happy to read that. 😊
Sadly no, one keeper might clean whilst another feeds but they will only ever do one job each at a time.
 
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