Proposal Discussion Leaving a legacy (naming and describing systems)

[CaptainSodom]

Mr Braben has hinted at the ability to name systems.

I agree: we should be a way to leave a lasting legacy in space. An easy way to do that would be to allow players to name systems, and/or describe them. This would offer new ways to roleplay, make further incentives to explore new space, and it would be damn cool

Naming could be a combination of freeform and a computer-generated naming to avoid the need to check each name against duplicates. For example "Gomorrah T-800".

Naming could be closed behind microtransactions: name 10 systems you discover for 1 EUR, for example. It would be a potentially lucrative funding source for Frontier - and it is in all our interest that the game is financially successful. It would not offer any in-game advantage to players and be purely a vanity item, so I believe most people generally against MT would have no issue here - including me.

There was a rather pricey KS tier which had a system named after you as one of the rewards. Therefore in addition to profanities and trademarks, autofilters should disallow naming systems after yourself or other players to avoid alienating the handful of people who forked out monies for the privilege.

If naming systems is out of the question, description of each system is another option - or an additional opportunity for much further immersion. A simple automated description could say "Discovered on [date] by [rank, discoverer] of [corporation/clan/guild]." A pre-set signature each player has set could follow.

A free description might include space for an additional paragraph of description. Each explorer could write of the events leading up to that system or hub system discovery.

This would be a very cool way to get our story out there, and become part of Elite history. For example, members of First Great Expedition might write "FGE lost three good men on the jump to Gomorrah, we have not heard from them for three days - afraid they mis-jumped to a system reported by our scouts to be flush with pirates. Fleet running low on fuel, scouts have been sent to quadrants 3 and 7. We will press on in the name of discovery."

This could be an opportunity for a branch of in-game historical accounts to be found in the galaxy, via logbook entries spread around systems. An Elite historian might start collecting such entries. Imagine how cool it would be for someone years down the road to find the entries!? It would be almost like finding Scot/Amundsen logbooks on the ice shelf. Almost.

 

[chris5281]

I don't like the idea of it being open season on system naming. I think there is too much potential for a whole bunch of names which are immersion breaking. I don't like the micro-transaction idea either - I think that would be very hard to implement without angering those who paid large sums at the Kickstarter stage.What I do like is the idea that the system description gets a 'discovered by Cmdr Bob' line, and I think it would be great if that was implemented.

In the real world the naming of stars is controlled by the IAU, and most are known only by a boring catalogue designation until they become interesting. For example, there was once a star known only as HS2331+3905. Some years back it was recognised as an interesting variable star, and is now known by the slightly more interesting name of V455 Andromedae.

I would like to see a similar system, in which the names of stars retain their boring catalogue name until they become of interest. Frontier have talked about an evolving Galaxy, so the point at which the star is named could be the point at which the star system is colonised. This makes sense, as its the first point at which people would start to care what the system was named. The naming could then be an in-game event. Consider a scenario where the Federation is trying to establish a colony, and the Empire are secretly comissioning privateers to go in there and stop it from happening. For a period of weeks both powers are offering missions. The Feds need certain goods delivered and the trade routes defended. The Empire wants the transports destroyed. At a certain point say, the game calculates that the Federation won and the new colony is established. In gratitude, the new colonists name their system after the great hero of the battle, the Fed pilot with the most kills, and the system becomes 'Bob's Pride' or somesuch. Or maybe Cmdr Bob doesn't have it named after himself, but earns the right to choose. This would make system naming a rare, noteworthy event, and getting your Commander's name immortalized in this way would be a real achievement.

 

[azdour]

I believe naming systems etc... has already been discussed and that Frontier will be responsible for the naming.

But they are looking at attributing the finder in the description. While I am thinking about this I wonder if we get to confirm the finder name?

Will it be the player that first reports it or can we give a group name, e.g. the First Exploration.

I think if we are working in a team we should get to decide what gets adds as the finders name.

 

[Fangrim]

13 backers (not including the Writer's Packs) paid £3000 or more to be able to name a star system. I'd be pretty ticked off if everyone and his dog could name systems, simply because they "found" it first, if I paid £3000 in the Kickstarter for that privilege.

Same goes for planets and stations.

 

[CaptainSodom]

In the real world the naming of stars is controlled by the IAU, and most are known only by a boring catalogue designation until they become interesting. For example, there was once a star known only as HS2331+3905. Some years back it was recognised as an interesting variable star, and is now known by the slightly more interesting name of V455 Andromedae.

Real world is a poor game designer, and should not be followed if there is a more fun way to do things. This is a game, after all.

Nevertheless, I do like your suggestion of naming a system being a big event, and naming being done after the discoverer, or maybe someone who has won big battles in the system.

KS elitism already covered in OP, see below.

13 backers (not including the Writer's Packs) paid £3000 or more to be able to name a star system. I'd be pretty ticked off if everyone and his dog could name systems, simply because they "found" it first, if I paid £3000 in the Kickstarter for that privilege.

Same goes for planets and stations.

Already covered in the OP. It is easy to prevent naming systems after players.

 

[Philip Coutts]

As has already been pointed out you simply can't let anyone name a system or planet after people paid huge amounts of money to do so in the Kickstarter. I believe people could be referenced in the description of the system giving them credit for finding it but naming is a no from me out of respect for the people who had very deep pockets!

 

[Fangrim]

Already covered in the OP. It is easy to prevent naming systems after players.

I know, but that's not my point - I wouldn't want any naming done by explorers - I think that would ridicule those who paid lots of money to do so.

That said, if you can't put any personal touch to naming a system, why bother? That would leave semi-random letters and numbers.

Edit: Personal descriptions for "discoverers" are not my cup of tea either.

 

[Sessine]

I like the idea, a bit like a Jack Vance type of finding planets and being able to name them. I would only think there will be people taking advantage of this, using names not fitting in this universe. Also, a newly discovered system would not have a space station, or any trading possibilities. And as said, some people paid a lot for funding and as a reward got their shot at naming a system.
I would settle for being able to buy a spacestation and rename it if I had enough credits

 

[CaptainSodom]

As has already been pointed out you simply can't let anyone name a system or planet after people paid huge amounts of money to do so in the Kickstarter. I believe people could be referenced in the description of the system giving them credit for finding it but naming is a no from me out of respect for the people who had very deep pockets!

Argh, this again. From the KS page:

Pledge £3,000 or more

7 backers Limited (8 left of 15)

Have a frontier star system named* after you, and a 'special thanks' game credit, plus all rewards above.

Emphasis mine. The 1500 GBP extra (not 3k) people paid for the naming right and 'special thanks' credit is only for a system to be named after them, not to be able to name a system. Preventing the ability to name systems after an existing player covers that.

Besides, the tier doesn't say such privilege is exclusive, and would not be offered in the future. When you pledge on KS, you have no entitlements, you back a project. But that's another topic.

Further, I'm quite sure that Frontier will place the handful of systems named after people near the starting points or in other easily accessible locations. And there are thousands of systems which have already been named by Frontier. What we're talking here are naming the 399.999.990.000 systems in deep space, many of which will be unlikely to be ever visited again.

Let's get back on topic.

 

[Fangrim]

Argh, this again. From the KS page:



Emphasis mine. The 1500 GBP extra (not 3k) people paid for the naming right and 'special thanks' credit is only for a system to be named after them, not to be able to name a system. Preventing the ability to name systems after an existing player covers that.

Besides, the tier doesn't say such privilege is exclusive, and would not be offered in the future. When you pledge on KS, you have no entitlements, you back a project. But that's another topic.

Let's get back on topic.

Existing player, yes. But what prevents someone naming a newly discovered system, and then create a Commander with that name.

And yes, nowhere does it say exclusive, but it'd "water down" the pleadge, I think. Some stations, planets and systems have been named after famous people by Frontier, and that's cool I think.

Players naming stuff isn't, no matter what restrictions are set for naming convention. All this in respect to those who paid large sums of money, helping getting Elite funded in the first place.

 

[Philip Coutts]

I'm rather afraid the players naming stuff or writing descriptions would very quickly become naff. The reasons for this is that most people can't write or spell for toffee (and I include myself in that ) What you will end up with is a load of stuff that just doesn't "fit" into the Elite universe.

 

[CaptainSodom]

Existing player, yes. But what prevents someone naming a newly discovered system, and then create a Commander with that name.

A manufactured non-issue. The two people who think it's funny to do that and have the tenacity to go through with it won't make any difference in the game world.

I'm rather afraid the players naming stuff or writing descriptions would very quickly become naff. The reasons for this is that most people can't write or spell for toffee (and I include myself in that ) What you will end up with is a load of stuff that just doesn't "fit" into the Elite universe.

That's partly why I suggested a system-generated default one, with the option to add further description.

And let's face it, not all explorers were eloquent writers. The galaxy will end up looking like their explorers - isn't that what we want?

If we are afraid of immersion-breaking names, just wait till Barrens-chat enters core systems at launch. For the uninitiated, that refers to the n00b zone in WoW, where the public chat tended to be rather inane. There will always be griefers, but we can't let the lowest common denominator dominate game design.

 

[Fangrim]

A manufactured non-issue. The two people who think it's funny to do that and have the tenacity to go through with it won't make any difference in the game world.

It's the principle of it that irks me. No matter if it'll make a difference or not, some people paid a lot of money for the Kickstarter rewards.

 

[Gibbonici]

It's the principle of it that irks me. No matter if it'll make a difference or not, some people paid a lot of money for the Kickstarter rewards.

I think it was in one of the E3 interviews (the Gamespot one?) where DB mentioned that discovering a system would give naming rights.

Of course this might be one of those things said in the moment (like the inflatable space stations ) that might not translate exactly to reality, not least for the reason you give.

 

[popuptoaster]

have said this in another thread, i dont want to fly past a star called "***** 69" or one named after some daft anime character and I also dont want staff at FD having to vet thousands of names when they could be programming new stuff for us to play with.

If 10000 players each found 1 new star per week, then one employee working a 40 hour week would be check names for copyright and dodgy links 5 times an hour and I'm damn sure there will be a LOT more than 10000 players in game.

let the game name systems, let the game add descriptions as the players bring back useful info by exploring BUT let the system data reflect which commander was the first to visit.

I have an ulterior motive for getting to a particular location with a specially named commander before anyone else does and i would love to have that star named afte that commander but I'd rather not get that than allow 40 year old anime fan boys or 12 year olds naming rights on stuff.

 

[Fangrim]

I think it was in one of the E3 interviews (the Gamespot one?) where DB mentioned that discovering a system would give naming rights.

Of course this might be one of those things said in the moment (like the inflatable space stations ) that might not translate exactly to reality, not least for the reason you give.

Yup. Saw that one too ;o)

If they decide to go ahead with it, oh well... Their game, their rules. It'd still annoy me though ;o)

 

[CaptainSodom]

have said this in another thread, i dont want to fly past a star called "***** 69" or one named after some daft anime character and I also dont want staff at FD having to vet thousands of names when they could be programming new stuff for us to play with.

If 10000 players each found 1 new star per week, then one employee working a 4 hour week would be check names for copyright and dodgy links 5 times an hour and I'm damn sure there will be a LOT more than 10000 players in game.

let the game name systems, let the game add descriptions as the players bring back useful info by exploring BUT let the system data reflect which commander was the first to visit.

I have an ulterior motive for getting to a particular location with a specially named commander before anyone else does and i would love to have that star named afte that commander but I'd rather not get that than allow 40 year old anime fan boys or 12 year olds naming rights on stuff.

There are existing filter packages for profanities and trademarked names. I'm sure profanity filter is already planned for chat, so filtering planet names would add very little overhead or work.

For the more creative abuses a reporting system could be put in place. I'm sure there is already a chat moderation and griefing inspection team planned, so that would be a natural part of their work. This would include giving naming permabans for those who name systems "Muh 3p33n in y0 A&&". Workload is probably not very high volume.

Again, we must not design a game for the lowest common denominator, we should not expect the worst from E: D players, and we can not kill every feature that could be abused. If this is the level of cynicism or fear of the occasional immersion-breaking system name, it is better to stay away from online multiplayer games in general.

I strongly feel that the benefits of the ability to leave a legacy in the galaxy far outweigh the limited and fleeting abuse potential.

 

[jabokai]

It's the principle of it that irks me. No matter if it'll make a difference or not, some people paid a lot of money for the Kickstarter rewards.

Yeah, he's doing a bit of legal gymnastics to get around the issue but the reality is that people who paid to name things didn't have to choose to have it "named after them", they got to pick the names. So any further player chosen names would be a dilution of those pledges.

No vested interest by the way - I did not pledge that high.

Quite aside from that we will end up with way too many crap names as people try and be funny and it will tarnish the ambience of the game so I'd rather not see player naming at all. A simple footnote, somewhere in a hidden tab about the system stating who discovered it would be more than sufficient... even then I don't really like it as we already have a shedload of crappy commander names that are going on my ignore list for "spoiling the atmosphere".

 

[CaptainSodom]

It sounds like we need a separate roleplaying server

even then I don't really like it as we already have a shedload of crappy commander names that are going on my ignore list for "spoiling the atmosphere".

I hope that doesn't include a certain CMDR CaptainSodom

 

[Memnoch]

I'm rather afraid the players naming stuff or writing descriptions would very quickly become naff. The reasons for this is that most people can't write or spell for toffee (and I include myself in that )

I can't speak for the writing but the spelling can easily be sorted by pressing F7.

It's the principle of it that irks me. No matter if it'll make a difference or not, some people paid a lot of money for the Kickstarter rewards.

Those rewards did have some caveats attached, such as core system or frontier system. If they were to buy the rights to naming a system it could well be on the other side of the galaxy.