[left handed and more] VR experience is great but...

Ok ok VR is awesome. I'm feeling true love for ED in VR. I will never go back to my little monitor and I suspect I will never be able to play a single game out of VR... that said:

1 - I'm left handed (joystick in left hand, keyboard in right hand) but the ingame avatar is right handed. So there is a good dose of immersion loss when I move the joystick and the character moves the opposite hand :(
I tested playing the joystick with right hand and my brain could apreciate for a few minutes the true feeling of being the pilot. I'm seriously envying you right handed guys out there!

2 - MALE character have t i t s ? seriously? when I first looked down to my body I just discovered those two little things on my chest! felt quite odd (my masculine brain could not accept that!) At first I thought I was playing wrongly with a female character, but then I checked between my legs and everything was ok.

3 - the avatar is too tall. I'm a 1.80 meters high big boy. My eyes do not recognise the body proportions, you know what I mean.

So... is there any hope to see future development of avatar's animation and shape so that lefty (and male) players will be completely immersed in VR?
What's your thoughts about that? Are you indifferent to the she-male character? would you like the game to accomodate your left handed "illness"?
Should the dev team consider to add more depth to upcoming character creator by adding full physical customization, including the option to be left handed (some good RPG's out there do have the option).
I would like to feel being there 100%, and we are just one step behind that.

JJ
 
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Make sure in the oculus Home setup - your height is set correctly.

Second, try slightly higher/lower seating positions (move up a bit or down in your seat and press 'HMD Recentre' then relax into your normal seated position to set your viewpoint up or down a bit - this can help with the sense of avatar scale.

Lastly, everyone can learn to use the other hand - if I can make my ol' Mum use a mouse right handed (and she's a hardcore lefty!), anyone can do it.

Definitely worth slowly training your right hand to handle the joystick... its not a high-finesse input (like a mouse) and your hand shouldn't get sore - its possibly one of the easiest input devices to master with either hand.
It might take a little while, but the more you use your right hand for the joystick, the better it will feel (that kinda sounds wrong lol D). Then your joystick and throttle will feel more like the in-game hands.

You might be right in that future commanders might have options for their height/weight etc so smaller RL commanders can pick smaller avatars, and us big-un's can have larger avatars.
There is a fair difference between the female and male avatars in ED, but I too feel the male avatar is a bit on the skinny side. (I'm not huge, just under 6' and 13stone 83kg but the avatar is too small for me)
 
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I'm a very strong left handed person. That is, I suck at anything with my right hand. I just forced myself to get used to the right handed HOTAS. It took a couple weeks, but it worked. It feels perfectly natural now. Barriers are removed. Keep at it.
 
Forcing players to play that way is not a good aptitude and sounds just lazy on the developer side. I'm a 3D modeler (for fun) and to mirror a mesh model is not that hard to do. The ingame avatar is just a static mesh + animated arms and fingers. The same for the seat.
But I often read that players prefer to just adapt to the system and force their brain to do it "wrong". Sad me.
 
I have the feeling, that mirroring the avatar, his animations code and the related cockpit in ED would be a little bit more work than in a 3D software (where it is indeed a simple task).
And even if it would be a simple thing, the main problem would persist: As far as I know, there is no HOTAS system out there for left handed people! And until you find a method to mirror an object in reality, the immersion-breaking effect will still exist! ;) So, why should FD alrerate the 3D model even if it would be minimal work, if there wouldn't be any real gain?

Regarding the pilot's model and its body mass index, I was wondering, too.
Will we just be able to change our faces in the avatar generator, or also the rest of our bodies? And if so, will this change be visible for ourselves when we look down or will it only be visible for those flying with us?
Only a few month till we'll get the answer ... :)
 
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2 - MALE character have t i t s ? seriously? when I first looked down to my body I just discovered those two little things on my chest! felt quite odd (my masculine brain could not accept that!) At first I thought I was playing wrongly with a female character, but then I checked between my legs and everything was ok.

In 3302, manboobs are common among cmdrs. We sit in out cockpits all day, never get much exercise.
 
I don't know, the pilots in the concept art look fairly lean:

f1wlBHq.jpg


Make sure in the oculus Home setup - your height is set correctly.

Does that make a difference in ED though? I've always thought that it doesn't but never really tested it properly. I set my height to my seated height and it seems to work fine.

In 3302, manboobs are common among cmdrs. We sit in out cockpits all day, never get much exercise.

In fairness to my CMDR, no point benching when you're in zero G most of the time :)
 
I have the feeling, that mirroring the avatar, his animations code and the related cockpit in ED would be a little bit more work than in a 3D software (where it is indeed a simple task).
And even if it would be a simple thing, the main problem would persist: As far as I know, there is no HOTAS system out there for left handed people! And until you find a method to mirror an object in reality, the immersion-breaking effect will still exist! ;) So, why should FD alrerate the 3D model even if it would be minimal work, if there wouldn't be any real gain?

Because left handed joysticks already exist like my thrustmaster. BTW it seems there's no hope about this argument. Just resignation. Healthy resignation :rolleyes:
 
Because left handed joysticks already exist like my thrustmaster. BTW it seems there's no hope about this argument. Just resignation. Healthy resignation :rolleyes:

Also using a left handed HOTAS setup, TBH the mismatch doesn't bother me in VR. It is kinda annoying tho, in reality the Left hand seat Pilot would have a left handed sidestick (exception is the Shuttle and helicopters).
 
I don't know, the pilots in the concept art look fairly lean:

http://i.imgur.com/f1wlBHq.jpg



Does that make a difference in ED though? I've always thought that it doesn't but never really tested it properly. I set my height to my seated height and it seems to work fine.



In fairness to my CMDR, no point benching when you're in zero G most of the time :)

In fairness to MY Commander, most of her flight time is spent in Supercruise, so most of her time is spent under high accelerations (greater than 20 m/s2). Plus her homeworld has a surface gravity of 1.3 G's, and she likes to go home and relax on her estate on Emerald whenever she's nearby. ;)

I've always assumed that most Commanders keep themselves very fit, like fighter pilots in real life, due to the physical demands of their job. Just recently, for one of my little Buckyball Run drabbles, I wrote one describing what my usual piloting style probably feels like to the "average" person. I'll repost it here. :)

The last mission I took was a little too topical not to share while I'm waiting for my lunch to cook. :)


"Good morning! Welcome to Stevenson Whirlwind Adventures! My name his Hans. How may we serve you today?"

Action starlet Abby Wong and her entourage looked around the nicely appointed office, located in the habitable ring of Mackenzie Relay station, before focusing her attention on the young man at the receptionist's desk, whose flowing tunic was open from neck to navel, showing off what many in the industry called the Emerald Physique. "Why thank you Hans," she said, pleased to see the young man was keeping things professional, and not gushing over her like a caffeinated fanboy. "I understand you offer custom made tours?"

"Yes, ma'am! Our adventures are custom tailored based on the demands of our customers, unlike a Beluga liner luxury tour. The owner is a member of the Pilot's Federation, and will fly you to your destinations personally aboard her Asp Explorer, Emerald's Dawn. The first class passenger lounge includes telepresence virtual reality headsets, and for a little bit extra, Commander Stevenson will allow you to sit at the gunnery station below the Commander's Station, so you can experience your adventure personally."

"That sound's perfect! But correct me if I'm wrong, but I though Cmdr. Stevenson flew a Cobra Mark Three."

"That she does, ma'am, the Slave of the Empire. She recently acquired Emerald's Dawn to expand her operations both here and on the Imperial/Federal border. Are you familiar with the Commander?"

"Yes! I'm a huge fan of racing, and when I saw she was offering tours, I couldn't resist. I just got cast to portray a pilot in a remake of an ancient action movie, and to better understand my role, I want to experience what it's like to race like that. Would she be willing to accommodate me like that? I'm willing to pay extra."

"Why certainly, ma'am. Just sign this release here, and get outfitted for a Remloc. Your adventure awaits!"

--== 15 minutes later ==--

Abby Wong gingerly settled down in the lower command chair, staring out the bubble of glass before her. She tried to ignore the tightness of the Remloc she was wearing and the tubes in uncomfortable places, and focused instead on the adventure she was about to embark on. This was going to be great!

"Miss Wong, are you ready?"

"I'm ready, Commander Stevenson. And please, call my Abby."

"Then call me Inga, Abby. Rachel, are you and our first class passengers secured?"

"Affirmative, Commander! They're all snug and secure here. Telepresence headsets are connected."

"Excellent. Hang on, Abby. I'm about to activate our Remlocs."

Abby let out a gasp as powerful magnets jerked her backwards into the seat. She could feel several clamps and plugs attach themselves into the back plate of her suit, and parts of the suit began to tighten around her legs and abdomen. "What the hell is... ow! What was that?" Something had just stuck into the back of her neck.

"Didn't you read the instructions? We Emerald girls may be able to endure higher G's than the average human, but you wanted the 'full racing experience.' Unless you want to black out if we require some high-G maneuvers, then the Remloc suit is going to try to keep the blood where it does the most good, and if you really need it, it can pump in some lovely, lovely chems to help you remain functional."

"Is that really necessary, Inga?"

"Be glad this wasn't 20 years ago, Abby. If you think this is bad, the Dreamweaver capsule was ten times worse. Ready to go?"

"Yes! Let's get this show on the road!"

"Roger! Mackenzie Relay Traffic Control, this is Lakon India November Golf, requesting clearance for departure."

"Copy that, Lakon India November Golf. The slot is clear. Try not to damage the toaster rack this time."

Abby frowned. What did traffic control mean by...

The actress successfully kept from screaming as God kicked her in the back. Hard.

"Dammit, Stevenson! Be careful!"

"Just working out the kinks in the Dawn's new engines, Control." Above her, Cmdr. Stevenson switched off the comm link. "Hang on to your butt, Abby!"

Not content to simply kick her in the back, God's invisible hand shoved her roughly down into the chair, while the Remloc squeezed her legs mercilessly. Almost unnoticed was the whine of the FSD spooling up.

"One more little tap, Abby, and we'll be making our first jump."

The Almighty kicked her in the back again, as Mackenzie Relay loomed large in front of the ship. The targeting reticle highlighted their destination BEHIND the station. "Wait! I thought we can't jump through things!"

"We're not. We're jumping between two of the station's support arms."

As the computer's voice finished its down, the Lord of Creation, not content to smack around His new and suddenly very devout believer, settled His vast immensity on Abby's chest.

As Emerald's Dawn vanished into Witchspace, Abby Wong suddenly remembered an ancient definition of adventure: "Someone else, far away from the comforts of home, up to their necks in ____."

--== One jump later ==--

"Inga! There's smoke billowing from the control panel!" The vertical bridge, while stifling hot, did provide a gorgeous view of the uncomfortably close star below.

"Don't worry, Abby. As long as there's no sparks, the ship's fine. It can take a little heat."

--== On initial approach to the first tourist beacon ==--

"Inga! You're not slowing down! Why aren't you slowing down!"

"Don't worry, we will."

"WHY ARE WE POINTING TOWARDS THE PLANET?!"

--== At the second tourist beacon ==--

"Where did all this wreckage come from?"

"Abby, sometimes pirates target passenger liners. They rarely hang around afterwards, though."

"Oh. Wait, rarely?"

--== On initial approach to the third tourist beacon ==--

Remloc suit RL-983A-7-56HT, sensing that its occupant's heart rate was once again unacceptably high, decided it was too soon for a third dose of performance enhancers, so it tried soothing music instead. It also noted that its waste pockets needed to be emptied.

--== Back at MacKenzie Relay ==--

Commander Inga Stevenson shut down Dawn's engines as the docking pad 38 dropped her ship down into the bowels of the station. Mindful of the low 0.1g pseudo-gravity of the station docking cylinder, she headed towards the gunner's station below her. She wasn't worried about the rest of her passengers. The first class cabins were specially designed to minimize the discomfort of space travel. The Remloc clad woman in the gunner's seat, on the other hand, didn't have that advantage. While she never complained, Inga was still worried about Abby's reaction to her little 'adventure.'

Inga opened the door, and peered nervously inside. "Abby?"

She found herself the recipient of vigorous hug. "Oh my GOD, Inga! That was incredible! And you do this every day?"

"Yeah?"

"We have GOT to do this again the next time we're both in Cemiess. Thanks for the Adventure, Inga. It was worth the whole four million."
_________________

It's long been a private joke of mine that the woman in my signature isn't the real Inga Stevenson, but the actress who will play Inga Stevenson in the 3310 Achenar Broadcasting Company's miniseries "The Adventures of Inga Stevenson, Slave of the Empire!"

She now has a name. Abby Wong. :)

13 million down. 2 to go.
 
feel you op, but to be fair there aren't as many left handed sticks, and regarding hotas i haven't heard about a right handed throttle yet.

just consider the case of someone using keyboard and mouse, or even a controller. their immersion breaking is far worse. our brains adapt to this by just negating it. we humans are fabulous liars. takes just a bit of time.

as for the character complexion, maybe 'faces' will bring some variety. for now, i've always chosen female. it's nice to stare at my boobies when bored in supercruise! :p

regarding immersion ... you're doing it wrong. it was never about exactly reproducing reality, but about the engaging experience. i've been sailing through storms feeling the cold and the splashes and the terrible sounds ... without ever looking up from my book! it's all in the narrative, and in your head.
 
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Also using a left handed HOTAS setup, TBH the mismatch doesn't bother me in VR. It is kinda annoying tho, in reality the Left hand seat Pilot would have a left handed sidestick (exception is the Shuttle and helicopters).

What do you mean by left handed HOTAS? do you refer to a lefty joystick or to the complete set joy+throttle controllers? :O (I guess not)

we humans are fabulous liars. takes just a bit of time.

So true man so true! 90% of the time I'm in VR I don't even notice the inverted arms. I just "think" I'm there, piloting my ship. But when I look down my Asp's cabin (I do it often) that right hand grabbing the flight stick looks so weird :(

JJ
 
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@ the OP, I too am a southpaw and can only recommend training yourself to fly right hand. I say this as someone who flew and drove mechs left handed for many many years. I started to fly righty shortly after I started playing ED at launch and yes, it wasnt super easy at first but I was looking for full immersion with an X-52. I will say that it really didn't take as long as I thought and I would have to learn to fly lefty all over again if I was inclined to do so. P.s. I smoke 'em in CQC on a regular basis :)
 
3 - the avatar is too tall. I'm a 1.80 meters high big boy. My eyes do not recognise the body proportions, you know what I mean.

JJ

Well that's a new one on me. My problem, and from what I understand it is a very common one.. Is that I look like I have the length and bodyframe of a young boy.. say like Ender Wiggin.
 
What do you mean by left handed HOTAS? do you refer to a lefty joystick or to the complete set joy+throttle controllers? :O (I guess not)

JJ

Custom replica throttles - http://www.throttletek.com/ I also know a guy who builds some very nice replica throttles, prices are cheap, no idea if he is still in Business.

I run a replica A320 throttle with a Saitek Logitech Attack 3 and standard Pro flight pedals. Whole setup is actually cheaper than my X52 Pro setup.


s4otqr.jpg



[video=youtube;S6qdsSLxDt8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6qdsSLxDt8[/video]
 
Looks interesting. I own both a hambidextrous thrustmaster T16000 M which I use for left hand and the Saitek Logitech Attack 3 which I used in a custom configuration to activate lateral and vertical thrusters, plus throttle on the upper buttons. But there was a loss in precision and control so I switched right hand controls on the keyboard (less immersive).

What about replica throttles you are pointing at here? How do you manage lateral and vertical thrusters? I can only see forward/backward throttle here. What about lack of utility buttons around the controller?
Thank you.

JJ
 
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Vertical thrust - Top two buttons on the Attack 3. When the gear is down (Flight landing over ride) Thrust below the ship can be trimmed using the mini throttle axis on the Attack 3. Primarily used for trimming thrust (Analogue) depending on the the planets G rating (explained below)

Lateral thrust is on the toe pedals (Left/Right toe brakes)

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/240691-Handling-big-ships-(High-G-FA-OFF)

A few buttons on the controller, the rest is handled via voice attack. 4147 commands so far :/
 
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Thank you 777Driver. I see you have a nice and complex setup to fly spaceships. I miss the pedals so I have to rely on my bare hands to control thrusters. Also I'm not a fan of voice attack (not mother english) so I need a lot of buttons. That's why I would like to grab a HOTAS. Maybe I will consider to learn a standard right handed hotas....:rolleyes:
 
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