Lets discuss the corvette class

[Robert Maynard]

.... but I would say that visible co-pilots and other officers would greatly increase the atmosphere of owning and commanding a larger vessel. We can hope?

Presumably crew costs would add to the running costs of such a vessel. The cost of the vessel itself would probably be (at least early on) prohibitively expensive.

 

[Caylo]

Presumably crew costs would add to the running costs of such a vessel. The cost of the vessel itself would probably be (at least early on) prohibitively expensive.

Absolutely.

I remember how stoked I was about having had finally enough cr to buy a Puma Clipper back in Elite II - only to then discover I could not take off due to lacking the necessary funds to pay for its crew of 7(ish?). So much for impulse purchases.

 

[Stachel]

If starfighters have a pierceable canopy rather than the cockpit being located in the midst of the ship in exactly the same manner as you described, I would not expect a different design philosophy applied to the larger vessels. Indeed, what we have seen from the rather sizeable Anaconda and the capital ship battle video suggests that windows remain an important feature for larger vessels as well. For what it's worth, aside from being a rather classic aspect of science-fiction, windowed bridges also have the advantage of specifically not relying on cameras that would effectively blind the commander to what's going on if this system's power is disrupted or the lenses themselves are damaged in battle.

However, I would welcome additional emergency systems such as bulky armor plates that you can manually lower down in case a window is pierced, to prevent atmosphere from leaking out at the cost of visibility, forcing you to pilot the craft by sensors (and perhaps an extended holo?). It would be neat if the player could also "jump" into the seats of any turrets the vessel has installed.

Technically, large vessels should perhaps not be piloted manually at all, but rather just by plotting a course and have the computer do the rest (representing your crew executing your orders), but this would probably be too boring?

But windows would make no sense in the context of a space going vessel. They really don't. Especially not on huge spacecraft of the fictional future. Sure it might make for fun gameplay but on anything bigger than a modern jet fighter sized craft (presumably one used for atmospheric combat as well as in vacuum) cockpits are beyond silly.

 

[popuptoaster]

But windows would make no sense in the context of a space going vessel. They really don't. Especially not on huge spacecraft of the fictional future. Sure it might make for fun gameplay but on anything bigger than a modern jet fighter sized craft (presumably one used for atmospheric combat as well as in vacuum) cockpits are beyond silly.

I know they manage on submarines, but crew comfort is probably increased by being able to see out and a comfortable crew may perform better? I guess if the tech is available to make the windows almost as strong as the hull then why not fit them? A warship could carry much thicker windows than a smaller ships canopy.

 

[popuptoaster]

Slightly off topic... looking at the cockpit window of the Anaconda makes me wonder what the first person view is going to look like when piloting. Are you going to be able to look around the cockpit? Are you going to see crew members going about their business? Are their avatars going to match their profile picture when you "hire" them off the bulletin board?

I imagine that once you can walk around ships you'll see other crew members going about their business... but what about looking around the cockpit in the meantime?

There is some artwork somewhere of an Anacondas bridge, it appeared to have several crew stations lined up under the front windows and at least one person was standing further back in the middle with his HUD activated and floating in front of him.

 

[Caylo]

But windows would make no sense in the context of a space going vessel. They really don't. Especially not on huge spacecraft of the fictional future. Sure it might make for fun gameplay but on anything bigger than a modern jet fighter sized craft (presumably one used for atmospheric combat as well as in vacuum) cockpits are beyond silly.

By that logic, windowed cockpits in any of Elite's ships don't make sense, yet clearly they have them, and have had them for a long time.

Thus, the only options are a redesign of ED, placing all cockpits further inside the hull, or a weird breach in design between smaller and larger ships, where different design philosophies are applied, although common sense would dictate to use the smarter solution on both.

tl;dr: some ships having windows is just as unrealistic as all ships having them.

I agree with you about windows being a safety risk and thus requiring a good explanation to be used at all - that's why I proposed finding one, just like the devs found an explanation for sounds in space.

For further consequences, also consider that once we implement a kind of virtual reality for the pilot, there is nothing that should prevent third person view - after all, this is just a different method of artificial display. This, too, should be considered more realistic (and advantageous in terms of 360° awareness), yet it would probably end up being less immersive than first person. So, do we really want this, or should we not rather stick to the windowed cockpits (and bridges) we've had in the previous games, too?

 

[Stachel]

I know they manage on submarines, but crew comfort is probably increased by being able to see out and a comfortable crew may perform better? I guess if the tech is available to make the windows almost as strong as the hull then why not fit them? A warship could carry much thicker windows than a smaller ships canopy.

You don't design in weakness do you. Also you'd have no need for transparent surfaces - you'd just use digital image projection on an internal (and reinforced) surface. If you wanted a 'wow look at that!' area you would just use the shields to create pressurized external areas.

 

[popuptoaster]

You don't design in weakness do you. Also you'd have no need for transparent surfaces - you'd just use digital image projection on an internal (and reinforced) surface. If you wanted a 'wow look at that!' area you would just use the shields to create pressurized external areas.

I think a window that improves crew performance might be worth having, hulls have weak points anyway suck as doors and corners, or even just the seams where the panels are stitched together, sure you COULD have open shielded areas or view screens but windows work and have done for centuries.

People still fit bullet proof glass into the back of limos, they could just travel in a van if they didn't want to see out.

 

[Stachel]

I think a window that improves crew performance might be worth having, hulls have weak points anyway suck as doors and corners, or even just the seams where the panels are stitched together, sure you COULD have open shielded areas or view screens but windows work and have done for centuries.

People still fit bullet proof glass into the back of limos, they could just travel in a van if they didn't want to see out.

Well I suppose in a galaxy of near enough as makes no odds infinite variety, fitting windows to your spaceship is just as reasonable as fitting wings ..

 

[Robert Maynard]

But windows would make no sense in the context of a space going vessel.

They were good enough for the Space Shuttle....

Maybe being able to look out (with at least a small field-of-view) is preferable to not being able to see out at all in the event of a video system failure.

Also, (onboard) pilots make no sense either - we already have remote operated drones in the air and there have already been 70 unmanned construction and re-supply flights to the International Space Station. Huge weight savings can be made by removing the human compatible habitat with comparable increase in payload for the same engine output.

So, realism - not so much....

 

[NeoRacer]

Some witness's of the 'Phoenix Lights' craft saw a giant silent black triangle craft with windows and beings inside it, so hey if the Aliens have em why not?!

They were good enough for the Space Shuttle....

Maybe being able to look out (with at least a small field-of-view) is preferable to not being able to see out at all in the event of a video system failure.

Also, (onboard) pilots make no sense either - we already have remote operated drones in the air and there have already been 70 unmanned construction and re-supply flights to the International Space Station. Huge weight savings can be made by removing the human compatible habitat with comparable increase in payload for the same engine output.

So, realism - not so much....

 

[Ixnatifual]

Slightly off topic... looking at the cockpit window of the Anaconda makes me wonder what the first person view is going to look like when piloting. Are you going to be able to look around the cockpit? Are you going to see crew members going about their business? Are their avatars going to match their profile picture when you "hire" them off the bulletin board?

I imagine that once you can walk around ships you'll see other crew members going about their business... but what about looking around the cockpit in the meantime?

You can look around in the Sidewinder's cockpit, although maybe not too far behind you: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8gnyvN4FosA

 

[Shishakli]

You can look around in the Sidewinder's cockpit, although maybe not too far behind you: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8gnyvN4FosA

Yeah I've been watching the Alpha videos. The question I asked was more about seeing the entire cockpit (which from the outside looks pretty huge) and if you will see other crew standing around

 

[Enjou]

Let's discuss the corvette class.

Corvettes will very likely be amongst the biggest playable ships. Furthermore, corvettes are dedicated and purpose designed military vessels and thus I would expect them to be quite different from commercially available civilian ships.

What can we /do you expect form the corvette class?

Personally, I doubt they will be among the largest ships players can have. They were described as "Light multirole warships, capable of recon, incursions and escort missions." Now, I by no means think they will be small. Fighters take the role of the small military ships. On the other hand, I expect them to be smaller than the big cargo carriers like the Anaconda - Frigates and Transports are likely around this size or possibly a little bigger, given their roles.

I'm expecting them to be around the same size as the Viper Mk. II and other 'medium' ships. That size makes them ideal for various combat roles. They'd be big enough to have more hard points and armor than a small ship, but small enough that they haven't lost speed and maneuverability. I expect some cargo capacity as well, but not as much as an all-rounder ship or a medium cargo vessel.