Let's talk about ECM's

[Genar-Hofoen]

ECM's - Electronic Countermeasures - are a defence against guided missiles.

They work by disrupting the lock a guided weapon has on your ship.

They have a variable operating radius from zero (not fired), which increases the longer you press the fire button, up to a maximum range of - actually I don't know - 3km?

They need to be assigned to a fire group - they are not automatically activated.

They also seem to never be discussed. So I'm wondering...

1) Does anyone use them regularly?

2) They should be effective against torpedoes, less effective against seeker missiles due to their speed (which is what PDT's are for) - are they effective against Packhound Missiles at all, since those are also guided?

3) Due to the fact you need to assign them to a fire group, would that be the main reason hardly anyone seems to use them?

 

[StiTch]

They're hardly used because they're awful.

The time taken to charge it up alongisde the cooldown for reuse just makes them an inconvenience. Anyone firing more than one missile every half hour will still hit you.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

They're hardly used because they're awful.

The time taken to charge it up alongisde the cooldown for reuse just makes them an inconvenience. Anyone firing more than one missile every half hour will still hit you.

Thanks.

I take it this is after extensive testing in some PvP scenarios? I can't imagine any of the PvP groups not having tested them in various such scenarios.

 

[Chongo]

Missile defense in general is awful. ECM is awkward and the situations where you can utilize it effectively against missiles are overly rare. In a real fight I've gotten them to work against missiles a handful of times - and that was really trying, really focusing just on ECM. Works against torps when you're expecting them and willing to take a few hits while waiting. Firing groups are awkward with them. PDTs are easily outmatched by missiles. Defenses on ships against missiles are useless that you can try upgrading into, like sturdy mount.

Missiles are stupid unless you're in a shield heavy rig in which case they're a joke. So let's all fly the same couple of ships and call it a diversity win.

 

[GluttonyFang]

The problem with ECM is that it's also RNG, there is a chance that guided projectile will lose lock, combine that with the CD and fire group trigger necessity, it's not widely used.

 

[Edelgard von Rhein]

I recall a thread a few weeks back (forgot the title to search for it, sry) where ECMs were discussed as a result of some people coming to a sticky end in big ships after being bombarded by torpedoes. A single PDT is good for one or two missiles launched at a time but has a harder time against the tougher torpedoes, so someone tried the ECM and found it worked much better. I use one on my Anaconda as a result of what I read, in combination with PDTs but not as a replacement. As a niche, that is pretty limited, though, and you have to be really alert to use it - I have a fire group set-up with it so I can activate it quickly without it getting in the way of normal operations but I would much prefer it to be bind-able.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I recall a thread a few weeks back (forgot the title to search for it, sry) where ECMs were discussed as a result of some people coming to a sticky end in big ships after being bombarded by torpedoes. A single PDT is good for one or two missiles launched at a time but has a harder time against the tougher torpedoes, so someone tried the ECM and found it worked much better. I use one on my Anaconda as a result of what I read, in combination with PDTs but not as a replacement. As a niche, that is pretty limited, though, and you have to be really alert to use it - I have a fire group set-up with it so I can activate it quickly without it getting in the way of normal operations but I would much prefer it to be bind-able.

Yes it seems a bit of a strange decision to not have a bind for it - like you can with heatsinks and chaff.

Maybe it was for "gameplay reasons" - but to me it hobbles their use so much that hardly anyone fits them.

I have one fitted to my Cutter because I can spare it, and yes I also have it in an easy-selectable fire group to keep it out of the way of the main weapons. I can't see there being enough time to spot a torpedo or packhound attack, selecting the firegroup with the ECM, and pressing the trigger in enough time to remove their lock on your ship.

Now if someone from FDEV could explain their reasoning behind making ECM's so inconvenient, that might help us understand them

 

[Chris Simon]

I use ECM on most of my bigger ships. (on small ones it's pointless - there's always more important utility to mount)

There's this neat trick, that sometimes works, sometimes not. I over-turn them, then use ECM so they lose their lock and and then fire a heatsink. That sometims makes the torpedo to lock on the attacker, which is incredibly funny to watch, more so, because they ususally don't have any anti-missile defense.

Not sure whether it is a bug or feature...

Anyhow. Yes. I use ECM regularly.

EDIT: And from usage point of view - I do understand why it is neccessary to bind it to firegroup. It's not just a "fre and forget" counter-measure, like chaff, or "I don't care what you do" utility like PD turrets.
Its use require active involvement. It's more like an Anti-missile weapon, than just a countermeasure.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I use ECM on most of my bigger ships. (on small ones it's pointless - there's always more important utility to mount)

There's this neat trick, that sometimes works, sometimes not. I over-turn them, then use ECM so they lose their lock and and then fire a heatsink. That sometims makes the torpedo to lock on the attacker, which is incredibly funny to watch, more so, because they ususally don't have any anti-missile defense.

Not sure whether it is a bug or feature...

Anyhow. Yes. I use ECM regularly.

That sounds fantastic

How effective are they against Packhounds, if you know?

 

[Saool]

I don't think ECMs have been used since 1984. When they were awesome.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

For me the reason to not even consider them is indeed the need to have them in a firegroup. If they were hotkeyed, maybe. Yet I'd still prefer point defense, which at least goes after guided and unguided warheads. I can see ECM as a specific counter to multiple packhound launchers maybe, as they would simply overwhelm point defense. Then again that would be a PvP only scenario, and I don't do PvP.

 

[Chris Simon]

That sounds fantastic

How effective are they against Packhounds, if you know?

Sorry, I never fought against anyone who uses them.
But ECM can deactivate all missiles in range, if you are foresightful enough and use it in time. So I guess it would work against pack hounds as well.

 

[dayrth]

They are not very good. Charge for too long and the missile hits you before you fire the ECM. Not long enough and the missile is not in it's range when you fire and you can't charge it for another go because of the cool down (so you get hit anyway). Couple this with having to guess how far out the missile is (radar not being particularly precise) and the fact that even when you get it right the missile may not loose lock anyway.

Point defence is far from perfect, but it is a lot more reliable than ECM and you can just leave it to do it's own thing.

(In case I have not been clear, I don't use ECM).

 

[Chris Simon]

They are not very good. Charge for too long and the missile hits you before you fire the ECM. Not long enough and the missile is not in it's range when you fire and you can't charge it for another go because of the cool down (so you get hit anyway). Couple this with having to guess how far out the missile is (radar not being particularly precise) and the fact that even when you get it right the missile may not loose lock anyway.

Point defence is far from perfect, but it is a lot more reliable than ECM and you can just leave it to do it's own thing.

(In case I have not been clear, I don't use ECM).

You should differentiate between "I can't use it" and "It's useless"

 

[pica pica]

I've been trying to use one recently, whether the ECM has saved me from the rebuy screen or not I don't know.

If you're up against a big ship/multiple small ships/etc that are firing multiple pack-hounds the radar screen rapidly fills up with white target objects.

Once you fire the ECM you've got no idea:

1. whether it worked?
2. are there more 'active' missiles still there? - unfortunately there will be as they have just fired another salvo at you and your ECM hasn't recharged yet...
3. are the enemy still there cause all I can see is white!

 

[Drelthar]

They are just really annoying to use, I don't think anyone can figure out why they were implemented how they were.

With a dedicated fire button, and a faster charge up time, they'd probably be ok.

 

[Riverside]

I don't think ECMs have been used since 1984. When they were awesome.

When I first got ED one of the first upgrades I bought was an ecm for my sidewinder. Every so often I'll try one to see if anything's changed but personally I think it's only there for nostalgia, and maybe to remind the veterans that this is a different game

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I've wondered about these myself, but now having read about the mechanics of these...
It just sounds as though this was a bad implementation of a really good idea, kind of like Windows Small Business Server.
I can envision a few situations where these would probably be quite useful, especially on larger ships, though I'm inclined to think a second or even third PD might be a better option instead.

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

ECM as a fighter Jammer in 2.2?

The ECM seems to fire when you release the key/button.

The longer you hold the key, the more powerful the pulse is to take out missiles.

As the fighters are remote controlled from their mothership, could the ECM be used as a signal jammer, to make the fighter loose control for a small amount of time?

Bit like the chaff and gimbled weapons?

 

[Chris Simon]

The ECM seems to fire when you release the key/button.

The longer you hold the key, the more powerful the pulse is to take out missiles.

As the fighters are remote controlled from their mothership, could the ECM be used as a signal jammer, to make the fighter loose control for a small amount of time?

Bit like the chaff and gimbled weapons?

There are some threads about this possibility and it would be awesome, imho.
One more reason to have it onboard