Let's talk about 'System Domination' for a while

[Anopheles]

Let's do it here instead of poisoning other wells.

My Position is that even with a 1000 friends in one system, no one group could ever dominate a system. Why, tell me. O Guru?

A: Lack of 'gates'. You can exit, with enough fuel and fsd in a multitude of directions if anyone tries to block you in. Sure people can 'camp' the common lanes, but they aren't the only ways to your destination.
B: Inability to own stations. Also Stations don't care what you claim. Shoot a clean player and it's going to hurt.
C: Ability to go to other modes.
D: Dynamic commodities. Blocking off this system? I'll go to another or do another route.
E: Interdiction issues. 4 out of every 10 fail because of, erm, 'good adjacent' matchmaking code.
Edit as more come to me.
F: Ignore function

Elite can't be Eve, we don't want Eve. Some of us have multiple friends - even more than 4! and would like to play with them in pvp and pve ways.

I'm surprised DBOBE seems to misunderstand his products limitations.

 

[Stein]

..where of course "C" is the big one. If you could broadcast to all who entered your system that "warning - I and 999 of my closest friends claim this system, and we will kill you if you do not leave", you'd be dominating that system in all practical terms. ...if not for the fact that I can just switch to my alternate reality with population 1 (solo) and be on my merry way, dumping biowaste in your stations.

 

[Herik]

Let's do it here instead of poisoning other wells.

My Position is that even with a 1000 friends in one system, no one group could ever dominate a system. Why, tell me. O Guru?

A: Lack of 'gates'. You can exit, with enough fuel and fsd in a multitude of directions if anyone tries to block you in. Sure people can 'camp' the common lanes, but they aren't the only ways to your destination.
B: Inability to own stations. Also Stations don't care what you claim. Shoot a clean player and it's going to hurt.
C: Ability to go to other modes.
D: Dynamic commodities. Blocking off this system? I'll go to another or do another route.
E: Interdiction issues. 4 out of every 10 fail because of, erm, 'good adjacent' matchmaking code.
Edit as more come to me.
F: Ignore function

Elite can't be Eve, we don't want Eve. Some of us have multiple friends - even more than 4! and would like to play with them in pvp and pve ways.

I'm surprised DBOBE seems to misunderstand his products limitations.

These seem like great limitations...

 

[Milky82]

I'm confused OP, do you want to be able to dominate systems or not ?

 

[ClymAngus]

Even if you could "camp on" a system you couldn't hold onto it. You and your crew would have to sleep sometime. All you could really do is make the lives of people travelling through a little more crappy for a short while. (maybe get a few murder LOL youtube videos out of it) People do that every day.

Anyway it's a bit lazy isn't it? Announcing "Come near us and we'll kill you" you might as well tag on the end "because we can't be to go out looking for a fight, we'll just stay put and hope someone turnes up and presents their chin."

 

[Cargobane]

Why would you want to dominate a system? It's likely if you could just shut off the background sim (the thousands of a AI we don't see for the economy (w/e that may or may not really be), and tax all traffic with tariffs or death, what then?

Sounds kind of lonely. So there's would have to be some incentive for anyone else to bother coming to you dominate system.
I don't think even rare or pristine babbles is enough to make anyone come knocking once you shut the door.

Maybe we need a Clash of Systems battle mode for all the hardcore PvP groups.

 

[Anopheles]

I'm confused OP, do you want to be able to dominate systems or not ?

I'm not advocating for either side. I'm saying dominating a system is not possible, so the reason given for limiting wings to 4 is bogus.

 

[Stein]

It's kinda sad, actually. 400 bn systems. If you could assemble a fleet of - say - 10.000 Anacondas, you should be able to make a dent on at least one of them. But you can't... Your presence will go mostly unnoticed.

 

[Traven Mayhem]

you kinda can blockade trade TO a asystem though. with the fact that everyone warps into the sun, good positioning makes it so they cannnot waprp in and go anywhere without being tackled.

getting out is easy, since they can jumpt in any direction from cruise or sublight, but we could effectively blockade all traffic entering a system (with the exception of people hiding in solo and group, but i've already stated my opinions on those mechanics being terrible and why they should be a seperate background sim)

 

[PotatoOverdose]

Yeah look, players aren't getting the ability to own or "dominate" a system. It's been said by fdev many times, owning a system isn't what this game is about, it isn't planned, and it won't happen. Elite isn't about gaining executive control over a system or station, it's about the experience of flying your ship and expanding the richness of that space gameplay. (recent interview)

It's kinda sad, actually. 400 bn systems. If you could assemble a fleet of - say - 10.000 Anacondas, you should be able to make a dent on at least one of them. But you can't... Your presence will go mostly unnoticed.

You know, there is a game where people assemble groups of 10,000 - hell even 30,000 to make a "dent" in the map - why people keep insisting on turning this into that game is beyond me. Especially when you consider that the sovereignty system in said other game has been sooo incredibly healthy and successful over the past couple of years.

Why can't you accept the fact that Elite wants to be a different game from the other online space game you've been playing for the past decade? Is it so bad that Fdev wants to do something different?

 

[Tashtego]

I'm not advocating for either side. I'm saying dominating a system is not possible, so the reason given for limiting wings to 4 is bogus.

~
That's a good thing.

 

[nifty]

You are missing the OPs point. He wants to have a wing of more than 4 players. One of the reasons given for why wings are only 4 players is that larger wings could dominate a system. The OP is saying that it wouldn't be the case, so wings should be allowed to be more than 4 players.

 

[Dominico]

Wrong game dude. There is no point in closing systems down.

Try eve. This is not the vision for this game.

 

[Herik]

you kinda can blockade trade TO a asystem though. with the fact that everyone warps into the sun, good positioning makes it so they cannnot waprp in and go anywhere without being tackled.

getting out is easy, since they can jumpt in any direction from cruise or sublight, but we could effectively blockade all traffic entering a system (with the exception of people hiding in solo and group, but i've already stated my opinions on those mechanics being terrible and why they should be a seperate background sim)

Yeah; thank you FD for Solo. -I ignore blockades.

 

[Mohrgan]

That was just one reason for limiting the size of a wing. Wings are short term teams, not some kind of perpetual association. How many 'boxes' would you like littered all over your screen? With a group of, say ten, you would have to give up room enough to 'see' all nine of their status'. That can't be good.

 

[Wavey]

I'm not advocating for either side. I'm saying dominating a system is not possible, so the reason given for limiting wings to 4 is bogus.

Could you explain what reason given you are using and why it is bogus ?

 

[JosiahD]

you kinda can blockade trade TO a asystem though. with the fact that everyone warps into the sun, good positioning makes it so they cannnot waprp in and go anywhere without being tackled.

getting out is easy, since they can jumpt in any direction from cruise or sublight, but we could effectively blockade all traffic entering a system (with the exception of people hiding in solo and group, but i've already stated my opinions on those mechanics being terrible and why they should be a seperate background sim)

But that's EXACTLY WHY we have the mode switching. It's not a terrible design at all but rather a very good design as just one of the mechanisms to prevent groups wanting to control systems from doing so. People who want to control systems ala Eve for example will of course consider it bad - but that's only because the deliberate design choice is contrary to what THEY want. Doesn't make it terrible design at all - just a design that SOME players disagree with, nothing more.

 

[JosiahD]

You are missing the OPs point. He wants to have a wing of more than 4 players. One of the reasons given for why wings are only 4 players is that larger wings could dominate a system. The OP is saying that it wouldn't be the case, so wings should be allowed to be more than 4 players.

Well Frontier COULD test wing size as part of the 1.2 beta, but then maybe their own internal testing has already shown that more than 4 results in unintended or undesirable consequences?

 

[atak2]

I would actually love to see System Domination.

Not from the perspective of part of the group that dominate the system, from the perspective of an individual ship/trader.

The reason for this is that I want to see the universe be a continually dynamic, shifting place.

For example there might be an extremely profitable trade route of a certain commodity going from System 1 to System 2. System 1 becomes blockaded stopping the known trade route. The traders would then have to find a new decent trade route for that commodity and in doing so the active player population gets shifted to fresh sectors thereby making the active systems new and fresh ones.

As for the blockaded sector. Profits should be starved to the sector as noone gets to trade with it. The players holding the sector would eventually bore of it or let trade commence again in the sector and traffic might start shifting back. I also think that the AI factions should fight to retake sectors too making it harder for players to hold the sector.

Even if players cannot blockade a sector I would still like to see something the makes the universe shift. Possibly an AI alien front that takes overs sectors one at a time which need to be held back or won back by the players.

 

[Anopheles]

Wrong game dude. There is no point in closing systems down.

Try eve. This is not the vision for this game.

Yeah, despite the musings of The Church of the Vision of DBOBE, we will continue to suggest a galaxy wide simulation not have idiotic and unnecessary limitations to prevent complaints from players who already have the game they want in solo and social modes.