Let's talk about 'System Domination' for a while

[Roybe]

Let's do it here instead of poisoning other wells.

My Position is that even with a 1000 friends in one system, no one group could ever dominate a system. Why, tell me. O Guru?

A: Lack of 'gates'. You can exit, with enough fuel and fsd in a multitude of directions if anyone tries to block you in. Sure people can 'camp' the common lanes, but they aren't the only ways to your destination.
B: Inability to own stations. Also Stations don't care what you claim. Shoot a clean player and it's going to hurt.
C: Ability to go to other modes.
D: Dynamic commodities. Blocking off this system? I'll go to another or do another route.
E: Interdiction issues. 4 out of every 10 fail because of, erm, 'good adjacent' matchmaking code.
Edit as more come to me.
F: Ignore function

Elite can't be Eve, we don't want Eve. Some of us have multiple friends - even more than 4! and would like to play with them in pvp and pve ways.

I'm surprised DBOBE seems to misunderstand his products limitations.

It depends on what you mean by dominate? A group of 1 thousand people 'owning' the shipping lanes? Nope, cannot be done for all the reasons above. What you can do, once the background sim is working (yeah, there's that), you can dominate the system and make changes based on the factions within it.

the problem with this activity is that there are very few game reasons to do this. You can push the system into higher levels of economic production and have more items available for sale after that fact. You can mess with station ownership, and possibly see system ownership change. However, very little of this is currently rewarding for players, and the reason to consider yourself a faction (either galactic or local) isn't there because of a lack of player agency. You have no reason to fight for something as there are few benefits to the acitivity.

A few benefits are slight pricing changes in commodities markets, more selection in allied stations outfitting stores, and safe harbor/fewer scans on allied stations being landed at. However, these are so underwhelming in their scope that most do not realize these things are even happening. One of the ways that could help this is there were some color coding in the different markets....green items are only visible by allies, blue items were added because of economic outcomes...or something similar. Some visual way that the players can ascertain that there choices have made a difference.

 

[PotatoOverdose]

Yeah, despite the musings of The Church of the Vision of DBOBE, we will continue to suggest a galaxy wide simulation not have idiotic and unnecessary limitations...

So, your previous post was full of lies then, was it?

I'm not advocating for either side. I'm saying dominating a system is not possible, so the reason given for limiting wings to 4 is bogus.

Not advocating for either side, eh? "Idiotic", "unnecessary", definitely not advocating either side. No lies there. None at all.

Yes, the creative vision of frontier is "idiotic" and "unnecessary", and your idea is good, because your idea is a special snowflake. Fdev has their creative vision - a vision that doesn't feature large groups of dozens or hundreds or thousands of players amalgamating into a blob. Not all games have to cater to large groups. It isn't a sin to be different, you know?

 

[Tashtego]

Popcorn time...No, maybe a pizza for this one...Tashtego

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

I think what the OP is getting at is that strict numeric limitations on wings are unnecessary because noone needs to fear a system blockade.

I don't see it as much of an issue though. Groups of players can organise through OOG tools such as Forums, Mumble and Jabber.

In the game the group isn't defined as such (except for all cross-friending each other to increase the likelihood of being instanced together). If an op is planned players log on, form multiple wings and wing leaders (or everyone, if the group has acceptable comms discipline) are on Mumble to coordinate wings.

Given a large enough group, that method should work to cover most instances in open. There - hundreds of players in one fleet split up into numerous wings and accross instances and it's still not a problem.

 

[dagonx]

maybe because islands have max player cap of 32? the maths says you can the only have 8 groups of 4. now yea you could easily increase that amount but then there is even less of a chance of seeing the other groups and if you end up with a 32 player "party/group" then you might as well be playing in some sort of private group because you wont see another other then your wing anyway. when they says system dominance i don't think they are referring to a blockade of sorts but rather trying to avoid blobs of players dominating a system for griefing purposes.

 

[Tinman]

I'm not advocating for either side. I'm saying dominating a system is not possible, so the reason given for limiting wings to 4 is bogus.

Depends on how you look on "dominating a system".

From a technical point of view each instance can only support a maximum of 32 player (in theory, not very likely in practice).

If a wing would have the ability to have 32 players they would indeed "dominate" their own instance from their perspective, thus never be able to interact with other players/wings. Another wing consisting of 32 other players on the "opposing side" could at the same time still be in the same system, but without ever be able to meet the other major wing.

Even wings of, let's say 10 players, would still have some major technical issues since if two wings of this size would meet that would require that every single one of these players can be matched against everyone other player in the other wing. The bigger the wing is the less likely this is to happen due to more potential failed/bad connections. Which would lead to them being placed in different instances and never seeing one another.

How fun is that?

I rather have smaller wings that is easier to matchmake against each other to generate interesting encounters. Wings could still potentially work together, but since there is no way to fully guarantee who meets who there is a bigger likelihood for opposing sides to meet up and that is where the fun lies.

As Michael also pointed out...how would you even handled 32 players in a wing in terms of HUD visualizations and management without eating up your entire view in the cockpit? Things like this isn't really interesting until waaay later when executive control of "capital" ships might get implemented in some major expansion...

 

[khaitom]

You are missing the OPs point. He wants to have a wing of more than 4 players. One of the reasons given for why wings are only 4 players is that larger wings could dominate a system. The OP is saying that it wouldn't be the case, so wings should be allowed to be more than 4 players.

The OP chose a pointlessly convoluted way of saying that, didn't they? I mean they could have started their post with something like "[I want] to have a wing of more than 4 players."

 

[Traven Mayhem]

The OP chose a pointlessly convoluted way of saying that, didn't they? I mean they could have started their post with something like "[I want] to have a wing of more than 4 players."

Anopheles just suffers from delusions of grandure. He fancies himself some sort of pirate king with an army of cutthroats at his command who will one day conquer the stars ..... ermm.. So say we all

 

[khaitom]

maybe because islands have max player cap of 32? the maths says you can the only have 8 groups of 4. now yea you could easily increase that amount but then there is even less of a chance of seeing the other groups and if you end up with a 32 player "party/group" then you might as well be playing in some sort of private group because you wont see another other then your wing anyway. when they says system dominance i don't think they are referring to a blockade of sorts but rather trying to avoid blobs of players dominating a system for griefing purposes.

This ^^

32 commanders in a wing and they own their own instance.

 

[Anopheles]

Wrong game dude. There is no point in closing systems down.

Try eve. This is not the vision for this game.

So, your previous post was full of lies then, was it?

Not advocating for either side, eh? "Idiotic", "unnecessary", definitely not advocating either side. No lies there. None at all.

Yes, the creative vision of frontier is "idiotic" and "unnecessary", and your idea is good, because your idea is a special snowflake. Fdev has their creative vision - a vision that doesn't feature large groups of dozens or hundreds or thousands of players amalgamating into a blob. Not all games have to cater to large groups. It isn't a sin to be different, you know?

Calling someone a liar is not cool. I'm not particularly for dominating a system. Probably a 6/7 if 10 is absolutely for it. Because, as I've said its impractical to do so.

Also in a 400 billion system game why do we fear blobs anyway?

My ideal game would have player owned stations (I could live with then not bding player owned), raggedy and good for repairs and not much else in anarchies and out of the way places where, to pirate, players have to travel for ly's to predate traders and these out of way places would be in constant danger of being raided/conquered by the major local factions (empire, etc). I have no problem with making the life of pirates like me extremely difficult in civilized space (big fines, barring from 'decent' stations, etc.)

Again, I will continue to lobby against pointless and artificial limitations to the simulations.

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Wrong game dude. There is no point in closing systems down.

Try eve. This is not the vision for this game.

The OP chose a pointlessly convoluted way of saying that, didn't they? I mean they could have started their post with something like "[I want] to have a wing of more than 4 players."

Well, I wanted to discuss the nonsense of system domination too.

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Wrong game dude. There is no point in closing systems down.

Try eve. This is not the vision for this game.

Anopheles just suffers from delusions of grandure. He fancies himself some sort of pirate king with an army of cutthroats at his command who will one day conquer the stars ..... ermm.. So say we all

I'll have my butler deliver your Black Spot personally.

 

[Dogoncrook]

I think it makes sense because of the instance limit and wing on wing fights will be encouraged. But you could still form multiple wings and coordinate with each wing leader. It's actually a bit more realistic that way, and if you have a guild or clan or whatever it's a good way to implement ranks.

It's basically how it works in the real world too. Wings are ad hoc groupings based on the mission task and are generally 2 or 4 planes per.