As I said the symbol displayed in CONTROL seems to be working like the EXPANSION method: if the TOTAL success value is higher than the TOTAL opposition value, display shield. If the TOTAL success value is lower than the TOTAL opposition value, display crosshair. (Given that both reached their TRIGGER already).
Lets talk about Undermining ?
- Thread starter R00TBR
- Start date
As I said the symbol displayed in CONTROL seems to be working like the EXPANSION method: if the TOTAL success value is higher than the TOTAL opposition value, display shield. If the TOTAL success value is lower than the TOTAL opposition value, display crosshair. (Given that both reached their TRIGGER already).
You may laugh, but that symbol part is a bug imho. The "Under Threat" icon even shows up in case there is none, while it should be only shown in two cases:
Expansion:
Faction X has more % than your own Faction
Control:
Faction X has more % than your Faction and you haven't reached the trigger yet
Expansion:
Faction X has more % than your own Faction
Control:
Faction X has more % than your Faction and you haven't reached the trigger yet
This isn't true in my experience. It's the percentage values that matter, so if expansion is at 150% and opposition is at 140% then expansion will win regardless of the raw numbers.
Correct, to expand a System you have to either reach the trigger, or stay ahead in the overall % in case another faction tries to undermine your attempts. As long as you have fullfilled either condition, your faction will expand the system and turn it into a Control System.
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He's talking about CONTROL and not EXPANSION.
Also, I can say with certain that what matters is the numeric TOTAL, not the %. I've seen situations where one % is higher and the other one is winning. Expansion works exactly as described in the manual/videos. The whole problem imo is in the CONTROL tab and in the graphic bars.
I'll explain:
SUCCESS
total 2000
trigger 1000
%: 200%
OPPOSITION
total 2001
trigger 2000
%: 100,05%
Opposition % is lower than SUccess % but the Opposition is winning and the EXPANSION will not occur (in this case)
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No, he specifically mentioned expansion in the bit I quoted.
Control is the simplest of the lot because it only has four states. Quoting myself from another thread:
If a control system is undermined then the entire income is lost. The upkeep still has to be paid, and is removed from the overall CC budget.
If a control system is fortified then the upkeep is reduced to 0. The overall CC budget is hence increased.
If a control system is neither fortified or undermined, or both fortified and undermined, then the normal situation prevails.
To give you a current example: Amenta has an income of 142CC and an upkeep of 23CC for a profit of 119CC. The possible situations for it are:
- Fortified: upkeep goes to 0 so profit goes to 142
- Undermined: income goes to 0 so loss goes to 23 (as the upkeep still has to be paid)
- Neither/both: income and upkeep unchanged so profit stays at 119
The problem you're talking about with the display of the icon is just a graphics glitch and has no impact on the mechanics of the game, but you should bug it anyway so that they can tidy it up.
If thats true, and i am not saying its not (dunno) - then they could also directly eliminate the difference for trigger amount needed (Expansion). With the trigger beeing that low, either their is no opposition at all, or in case there is it will be dealt over total amount regardless. That way one could check if something needs to be done by the graphs alone.
Incorrect. Here's an example from the game:
You can see that the total for expansion is much lower than the total for opposition, but it states that the expansion will succeed because the % for success is higher.
And this makes sense. The trigger value changes depending on how similar your power is to the system in which you are expanding in to: anarchies like more anarchistic powers, democracies like more democratic powers etc.
BTW your use of 'undermining' is confusing. Undermining is specifically the counter to fortification. It appears that you are using undermining as the counter to expansion, whereas the game calls that opposition. Best to stick to the same words as used in the game screens to avoid confusion.
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That's interesting (I was talking about expansion btw) - unfortunately I didn't take screenshots/record at the time, but currently, LFT 37 (sorry - easier for me to make a video than capture it in legible screenshots in the rift) looks like this:
[video=youtube;v0vQH1MjmoU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0vQH1MjmoU[/video]
Shows 13293 (=1206% of the trigger) for the expanding faction and 10245 (=338%) for the opposition atm. This afternoon, both were somewhere around the 10000 total mark. As you can guess, the separation between bars was pretty similar, yet it definitely did show as "under threat" in the expansion overview (100% sure - it was the only one, I flew 100 LY and spent 4 mill on Torval Deeds just because of that).
After I delivered my cargo, it didn't show as under threat anymore, hence I assumed the total value was the relevant one.
Now your screenshot is perfectly plausible and I don't doubt it is correct, but now I'm back to square one as to why the expansion displayed as threatened to me in the list - given the huge difference in percentage values, I doubt it's an updating issue.
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That sounds like a bug where FD have some of their internal systems confused between % and raw value. Might be worth raising it and seeing what FD say.