Proposal Discussion Let's talk avatars

[warbaby2]

Hey,

I know, it's be a while before we will see walking in ships/stations, but I thought it'd be nice to discuss what we want to see in terms of player/NPC avatars, customization option, etc. at some point later down the line...

Also: Some examples of what I hope to see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qE7TFnSl9y4#t=125
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHJjc0Go5aw

EDIT: I'm not bashing on ED here, I just think EVE and SC (apparently) have very nice character avatars...

 

[ste]

There is some early artwork and designs kicking about somewhere.

 

[Corwyn]

Personally, I don't like the idea of walking around in ED. ED is based on a game/sim from 1984, remade in it's image with modern technology and programming methods. That's all DB and FDEV have ever said it was supposed to be, and to change it into something it's not, is a bad idea, it just makes ED into a clone of all the other games out there. If ED is to succeed, it needs to be able to stand on it's own merits, based on it's designer's ideas and ideals.

 

[StarTux]

Personally, I don't like the idea of walking around in ED. ED is based on a game/sim from 1984, remade in it's image with modern technology and programming methods. That's all DB and FDEV have ever said it was supposed to be, and to change it into something it's not, is a bad idea, it just makes ED into a clone of all the other games out there. If ED is to succeed, it needs to be able to stand on it's own merits, based on it's designer's ideas and ideals.

This is Elite made to what David Braben felt or feels was necessary to attain his original vision, I think you need to go back and re-read the original proposals this was always pitched to be more than just a modern remake.

Being able to get up and walk around has been an idea proposed by David Braben since the early days of the Kickstarter:

"The initial release of Elite: Dangerous doesn't mark the end of development. We intend to continue expanding the game both with new content and new features. A good example of this is planetary landings. We have an ambitious goal for landings to include new gameplay and a rich variety of worlds to explore. To achieve our goal we want the planets to come to life. We also want to add leaving the ships so you can explore space stations or board enemy vessels or even just to look around your own."


Elite Kickstarter


Elite is heading to be a brilliant release this Christmas, however its going to be outstanding and mindblowing if they achieve the same level or more with the ability to walk around on an Alien planet, to see a sunrise on a vista no-one else has seen....

As you can see this is not a suggestion made by people wishing to change direction, rather it is a good question on how we will create and personalize our Avatars, because simply put it will be necessary.

I am not really sure how much we'll see or be able to do by Christmas, I don't recall seeing it as part of the DDF for example.

 

[Grinchy]

Color changes to armor/helms etc. Different shapes/designs for armor...
Character height / build.

The usual stuff

 

[Cosmo]

I love this concept art of people walking around and doing errands in stations. Bustling players and NPCs will make it feel alive.

Spoiler

We should first have an options to make custom portraits (also for NPCs). Later full 3D characters with the expansion. Eve has a very deep player character creator.

Personally, I don't like the idea of walking around in ED. ED is based on a game/sim from 1984, remade in it's image with modern technology and programming methods. That's all DB and FDEV have ever said it was supposed to be, and to change it into something it's not, is a bad ide

Sorry, it's already confirmed that Elite Dangerous will have walking on planets, inside ships and stations, boarding other ships, multiple player crews with expansions.

We don't live in 1984 anymore. Gamers have higher expectations now. Frontier should learn from other space games to make Elite better. Elite should be as ground breaking as it can be with modern technology.

 

[Henri]

 

[Le-Betz]

Certainly the devs will come up with something very nice again when it comes to avatar creation.

But that is not the point i'm wondering about. I'm more interested to know what we could do with our avatars. We might be able to upgrade them with implants in the fashion of the characters in William Gibson's Neuromancer, maybe a bit the way we already can modify our ships?

Currently i'm re-reading Altered Carbon by Richard Morgan (brilliant book, bit like a Blade Runner style SF movie directed by Quentin Tarantino). It contains some very good ideas and explanations why avatars could respawn after being killed. Just imagine how it might be to wake up in a new body (in the book these are called 'sleeves', actually i like that much better than 'avatar'), floating in the jelly of a clone-tank after somebody put a nano-missile between your eyes.

I can imagine that we might need to get used to our new bodies for a while after the re-sleeving process (black and white or blurred vision, slower movement and things like that), especially if its the cheap standard body that basic insurance is paying for only. So it's still preferable to use an escape pod when the ship is destroyed, instead of hoping for somebody to pick up your cortical stack from space, apart from the fact that sleeves might be tremendously expensive.

We could also have multi-sleeve-ownership (again just like our ships), the right kind of body in store for any job and any environment, even doing EVA in a space resistant cyborg chassis is thinkable.

There is no need that a sleeve has to be strictly limited to a human form. So you could not only be whoever, but also whatever you like. Imagine yourself running over endless plains of a planet in the body of a centaur or diving into it's ocean being a great white shark. There may be no sentient alien lifeforms in the Elite universe (except the mysterious Thargoids, maybe), but still it could be filled with all kinds of the strangest looking creatures that way.

 

[Cosmo Bozo]

stuff

Personally I don't like the concept of cloning, to me it's a different person in an identical body, Your original character is just as dead and it's just as game over.... that's just my opinion though, but I'm glad FD aren't going with clones.

But the idea of upgrades, cyber implants and body modifications etc could be good, and could be a money sink....

 

[Le-Betz]

Personally I don't like the concept of cloning, to me it's a different person in an identical body, Your original character is just as dead and it's just as game over.... that's just my opinion though, but I'm glad FD aren't going with clones.

But the idea of upgrades, cyber implants and body modifications etc could be good, and could be a money sink....

So whats your explanation of how to respawn after somebody killed your avatar?

 

[Cosmo Bozo]

I haven't got one. I always used to load saved games....

What's you explanation of how someone miles away with the same DNA suddenly becomes you?

Anyway, if you're playing ironman, dead is dead......

 

[Cosmo]

Personally I don't like the concept of cloning, to me it's a different person in an identical body, Your original character is just as dead and it's just as game over.... that's just my opinion though, but I'm glad FD aren't going with clones.

The Empire has cloning and it makes sense that by the year 3300 the biotechnology will be common so many people grow in pods (ectogenesis), because it will be better than natural birth.

What's you explanation of how someone miles away with the same DNA suddenly becomes you?

The only way is with transfer of consciousness (brain data) to a cloned body.

There is no need that a sleeve has to be strictly limited to a human form. So you could not only be whoever, but also whatever you like. Imagine yourself running over endless plains of a planet in the body of a centaur or diving into it's ocean being a great white shark.

This is far fetched, because the brain structure of such animals is different from humans. Maybe it's possible. It would be a whole new game by itself.

 

[Cosmo Bozo]

The only way is with transfer of consciousness (brain data) to a cloned body.

That's just it though, it's getting into the realms of fantasy space magic, which I though elite was avoiding by and large (with the exception of hyperspace)

It also makes death a bit meaningless in the context of the fiction.... There is no reason for characters to feel fear...

 

[Le-Betz]

I haven't got one. I always used to load saved games....

What's you explanation of how someone miles away with the same DNA suddenly becomes you?

Anyway, if you're playing ironman, dead is dead......

I know, it's not a perfect explanation, but it's the best i know so far. A bit like beaming in Star Trek is in fact more of making a copy or sending a fax while destroying the original. If somebody comes up with a better idea how to handle respawning, i'm all ears ... er ... eyes.

Also trust me, i know what i recommend, read Altered Carbon. Maybe that could change your mind about cloning and even if you are not a great reader, it's one of those books you don't want to stop reading once you began.

 

[Le-Betz]

This is far fetched, because the brain structure of such animals is very different from humans. Maybe it's possible. It would be a whole new game by itself.

Not if that animal / alien body is genetically designed and bred to hold a human consciousness.

 

[Cosmo]

A bit like beaming in Star Trek is in fact more of making a copy or sending a fax while destroying the original. If somebody comes up with a better idea how to handle respawning, i'm all ears ... er ... eyes.

This is in Eve Online. Pilots can purchase different grades of clones. The expensive clones retain most of your memories and skills.

Cloning is the process by which a person has their genetic code copied into a new body and their mind transferred to that body.

And Battlestar Galactica

As a humanoid Cylon downloads after being killed, it is apparent that the Cylon's memories are automatically stored for future use. This means that, in addition to the transmission of the memories to the slain Cylon's own resurrected self, another copy of that specific model can access these memories if they so choose. Once these memories are implanted they become as real to the receiving Cylon as their own original memories. This uploading of memories seems to be involuntary, as Sharon Agathon had no reason to do such a thing when she died, but another Cylon must choose to access them (TRS: "Rapture"; "The Hub").

Ectogenesis is mostly science with a little fiction, the growth of a fetus into a baby outside the human body will be available within several decades.

Artificial Wombs Are Coming, but the Controversy Is Already Here

Of all the transhumanist technologies coming in the near future, one stands out that both fascinates and perplexes people. It's called ectogenesis: raising a fetus outside the human body in an artificial womb.

It has the possibility to change one of the most fundamental acts that most humans experience: the way people go about having children. It also has the possibility to change the way we view the female body and the field of reproductive rights.

Naturally, it's a social and political minefield.

The term ectogenesis was coined in 1924 by British scientist J.B.S. Haldane. He predicted by 2074 only 30 percent of births would be human births. Science has grown much quicker than he realized, and his take is probably much too conservative. Some futurists like myself (I’m also married to an ObGyn) think ectogenesis will be here in 20 years, and widely used in 30 years around the world.

It also makes death a bit meaningless in the context of the fiction.... There is no reason for characters to feel fear...

Well when you die in Elite, you magically respawn somewhere. Death has meaning if it costs something (money, memories, knowledge). It should be expensive to have a clone of yourself. If you lose everything that's Iron Man or real life now.

 

[Le-Betz]

This is already in Eve Online. Pilots can purchase different grades of clones. The expensive clones retain most of your memories and skills.

Didn't know that, i never played Eve (in fact i was kind of multi-player-game-virgin before ED :smilie. But of course i also had Battlestar in mind when i wrote the lines about waking up in a tank.

 

[Enride]

Cloning is not farfetched, we could probably clone a human being today, most certainly y3300.

Transfering a conciousness seems farfetched though.
Im little educated in the area so i wouldnt know, but i believe it would prove to be difficult enough even in 3300ad.
And if "possible" why even wait til death, why not just put a thousand of "you" out there immedietly.


As someone said, in ironman "dead is dead".

In regular, play you are never "dead" but always automatically escape your ship upon destruction.

How do we solve this in a possible "out of the ship" scenario?
I have no solution other then to not make it possible to attack eachother outside our ships.

 

[warbaby2]

Dead is never dead in ED... in normal, you automatically are saved via escape pod and in iron man, you have to manually eject, or die and continue to play in normal. So the only thing ever really "dieing" is you iron man status, the character remains alive as a regular commander.

Anyway, back to topic: Cosmetic body augmentation would be a nice touch... but I don't think there is a large transhumanism focus in ED's lore, so cloning and stuff like that will not be common place.

 

[Cosmo]

In regular, play you are never "dead" but always automatically escape your ship upon destruction.

How do we solve this in a possible "out of the ship" scenario?
I have no solution other then to not make it possible to attack eachother outside our ships.

If you're killed in first-person combat, your character could appear dead and you spawn in a medical facility where you're resurrected.