Or possibly at least in its upper atmosphere. Who'd have thought that we may find life on Venus before (or rather) Mars.
Life on Venus?
- Thread starter Keanson
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Personally, I think it's too early to tell. They've detected a gas - phosphine, or PH3 - which only exists naturally on Earth as a result of biological processes, but "nature" on Venus is radically different from Earth-normal conditions and is still poorly understood. Phosphorus on Earth ready forms phosphate, due to the abundance of oxygen. With all the oxygen on Venus bound up as carbon dioxide and a reducing atmosphere at the surface, I suspect what we're really seeing is phosphorus-bearing minerals being weathered on the surface or emitted by volcanoes, forming phosphine by some mechanism that's difficult to predict or observe on Earth because of the difficulty in recreating Venusian surface conditions.
If the postulated cloud bugs exist, they've got to be getting that phosphine from somewhere. As far as I can tell, they've never found phosphorus in the atmosphere of Venus in any form other than phosphine. The cloud bugs can't be creating the phosphorus ex nihilo, they've got to get it from some other form, perhaps aerosolized elemental phosphorus blasted into the atmosphere by volcanoes. But if they want to prove it's Venusian cloud bugs metabolizing phosphorus and exhaling the phosphine, they'd better hurry up, build and launch that Venusian robot airship they've been talking about for ages, and actually catch some of those bugs.
If the postulated cloud bugs exist, they've got to be getting that phosphine from somewhere. As far as I can tell, they've never found phosphorus in the atmosphere of Venus in any form other than phosphine. The cloud bugs can't be creating the phosphorus ex nihilo, they've got to get it from some other form, perhaps aerosolized elemental phosphorus blasted into the atmosphere by volcanoes. But if they want to prove it's Venusian cloud bugs metabolizing phosphorus and exhaling the phosphine, they'd better hurry up, build and launch that Venusian robot airship they've been talking about for ages, and actually catch some of those bugs.
Yeah probably just some weird chemical reactions nobody's seen before. Venus is like, one of the worst locations to maybe find life, but since it's basically a giant hellish chemical soup factory, there's plenty of space for more complex stuff to form that you wouldn't get on earth due to the conditions being so utterly, well, alien.
Also,
Also,
Another thing to point out: here on Earth, phosphine sinks, because it's denser than air, so it rarely leaves ground level and tends to hand around the area it is generated in. On Venus, where the atmosphere is nearly-pure carbon dioxide (a much denser gas mixture than air), phosphine rises. So any phosphine generated on the surface is going to find its way into the upper atmosphere quite quickly and would become dispersed across the planet in the upper atmospheric winds.
If you want a non-biological explanation, here's one: Phosphorus compounds emitted from Earth volcanoes tend to rapidly cool and solidify in the air, forming part of the dust and ash cloud - the naturally high phosphorus content is what makes volcanic soils so fertile. On Venus, the surface conditions are hot enough for any phosphorus emitted to remain in gaseous form, as phosphoric and phosphorous acids.
At 200 deg C or above, phosphorous acid spontaneously decomposes into phosphine and phosphoric acid. This is how we make phosphine in the lab here on Earth, on the rare occasions when we need it. Venus is well over 200 deg C. Seems to me that a volcanic vent on the surface of Venus could easily form conditions very similar to a phosphine reactor.
If you want a non-biological explanation, here's one: Phosphorus compounds emitted from Earth volcanoes tend to rapidly cool and solidify in the air, forming part of the dust and ash cloud - the naturally high phosphorus content is what makes volcanic soils so fertile. On Venus, the surface conditions are hot enough for any phosphorus emitted to remain in gaseous form, as phosphoric and phosphorous acids.
At 200 deg C or above, phosphorous acid spontaneously decomposes into phosphine and phosphoric acid. This is how we make phosphine in the lab here on Earth, on the rare occasions when we need it. Venus is well over 200 deg C. Seems to me that a volcanic vent on the surface of Venus could easily form conditions very similar to a phosphine reactor.
They've ruled out any known abotic process being capable of producing anywhere near the concentrations observed, and if life as we know it is possible anywhere on Venus, it's in the relatively mild conditions of it's upper clouds.
While far from confirming the presence of life, it's probably the most promising evidence of extraterrestrial life thus far. The astrobiological community is already getting proposals for sample return missions ready.
While far from confirming the presence of life, it's probably the most promising evidence of extraterrestrial life thus far. The astrobiological community is already getting proposals for sample return missions ready.
Just a note that we've already got a thread going about this. It's exciting stuff, but maybe we'll get a more active conversation going if we're all in the same place?
Robert Maynard
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Closed as a duplicate.
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