Light reflections/God rays are ruining the Aquatic pack for me

[Bearcat9948]

Just gonna @Chante Goodman so we can hopefully get this answered sometime soon.

Not sure if this has been addressed or not anywhere else, but I don't think it has been. As some other users have pointed out, the way light, especially the sun, reflects off of the glass barriers makes it impossible to see into underwater viewing under most circumstances. I spent roughly 6-7 hours between yesterday and today making a King penguin habitat with a large underwater viewing area. Despite the viewing area being underground and completely covered, it's impossible to see more than 4-5 feet into the habitat. Rock walls or barriers around the outside of the habitat haven't helped at all. The only workaround I can find is actually shading the area over the habitat where the water is, which to me looks terrible (maybe just an indictment on my building skills) and isn't too realistic.

I put this into my list of suggestions to fix for 1.5, but I'm making it into it's own thread in the hope something can be done about it much sooner. Whether it be the sunrays not affecting glass if it's below surface level, getting rid of the light reflections on the glass altogether etc. I don't really care. I just want to be able to use my habitat. Sidenote, for some reason I can't upload pictures from my computer. No clue why.

 

[LN]

Sidenote, for some reason I can't upload pictures from my computer. No clue why.

Try using something like Imgur.

 

[Davic]

Yup! Totally agree. These are shots from my own penguin tank from three different angles. They do have tank lighting which doesn't seem to do anything during the day (it's on all the time.) I guess I can do that trick of building land over the window to get a better view...but that seems like a pretty weird hack to get clearer glass/water and it's going to alter the structure of a lot of people's exhibits (which are also not that easy to build in the first place due to the pathing/water learning curve.)

I'm hopefully guessing Frontier would want to fix this now that we have underwater animals. People are posting lots of photos of their habitats. It's free advertising...how much more compelling are the photos if we can actually see the animals AND the guests clearly in the intended shot?

 

[LN]

The main problem I think is, that glass isn't really that visible in real life untill you get close, but in the game, it needs to be something visual, you need to see there is a window.
I think that's why the glass has this property.

Would be nice to have clearer views though, with that I agree.

 

[hudsonbear]

I agree. Thought it was just me and my uninspiring habitat-building skills, but maybe not.

 

[Bearcat9948]

Yup! Totally agree. These are shots from my own penguin tank from three different angles. They do have tank lighting which doesn't seem to do anything during the day (it's on all the time.) I guess I can do that trick of building land over the window to get a better view...but that seems like a pretty weird hack to get clearer glass/water and it's going to alter the structure of a lot of people's exhibits (which are also not that easy to build in the first place due to the pathing/water learning curve.)

I'm hopefully guessing Frontier would want to fix this now that we have underwater animals. People are posting lots of photos of their habitats. It's free advertising...how much more compelling are the photos if we can actually see the animals AND the guests clearly in the intended shot?

Looks exactly like mine. I've decided I'm just not even gonna touch that zoo until it's fixed. Unfortunate

 

[fraser11]

Yup! Totally agree. These are shots from my own penguin tank from three different angles. They do have tank lighting which doesn't seem to do anything during the day (it's on all the time.) I guess I can do that trick of building land over the window to get a better view...but that seems like a pretty weird hack to get clearer glass/water and it's going to alter the structure of a lot of people's exhibits (which are also not that easy to build in the first place due to the pathing/water learning curve.)

I'm hopefully guessing Frontier would want to fix this now that we have underwater animals. People are posting lots of photos of their habitats. It's free advertising...how much more compelling are the photos if we can actually see the animals AND the guests clearly in the intended shot?

You should try my glitch. Build the viewing window inside dirt then push it away around the inside of the glass. It needs to be full of water and any barrier showing will mess with it. I have not seen a single dev or forum worker visit a single one of these threads so I am not sure what exactly is going on but I would really like a response on this issue because to me i will refund it soon if we do not hear back.

Source: https://youtu.be/j6MXLqZSwso

 

[FutureFear]

You might want to play around with your graphic setting, or upgrade hardware?
A lot of people don't seem to have that problem (like me), and plenty of youtube videos confirm, that the water = clearer in 1.4.1 compared to 1.3

Also a reminder, that water gets dirty in the game, even in sandbox, unless you turned it off in your options.

Another pro building tip: Check where your sun is at in the game and build so the glass reflection doesn't bother you, the sun never is in the north or south depending on where you are relative to the equator. -> block the sun with a mountain, scenery, trees, plants, etc.

Be creative, you could create shades or an overhanging roof, make it inside a building...plenty of zoos out there as good realistic examples.

 

[Bearcat9948]

You might want to play around with your graphic setting, or upgrade hardware?
A lot of people don't seem to have that problem (like me), and plenty of youtube videos confirm, that the water = clearer in 1.4.1 compared to 1.3

Also a reminder, that water gets dirty in the game, even in sandbox, unless you turned it off in your options.

Another pro building tip: Check where your sun is at in the game and build so the glass reflection doesn't bother you, the sun never is in the north or south depending on where you are relative to the equator. -> block the sun with a mountain, scenery, trees, plants, etc.

Be creative, you could create shades or an overhanging roof, make it inside a building...plenty of zoos out there as good realistic examples.

It’s not an issue of the water being murky, not sure how much clearer I can be as I didn’t mention water quality here once. It’s an issue entirely relegated to sunlight and the way it shines into the glass barriers, especially when water is on one side of it.

Also, like I said, I tried a lot of different solutions, including moving my viewing area for that penguin habitat in all four cardinal directions. Nothing worked. The sun rays still hit itunderground

 

[Davic]

You might want to play around with your graphic setting, or upgrade hardware?
A lot of people don't seem to have that problem (like me), and plenty of youtube videos confirm, that the water = clearer in 1.4.1 compared to 1.3

Also a reminder, that water gets dirty in the game, even in sandbox, unless you turned it off in your options.

Another pro building tip: Check where your sun is at in the game and build so the glass reflection doesn't bother you, the sun never is in the north or south depending on where you are relative to the equator. -> block the sun with a mountain, scenery, trees, plants, etc.

Be creative, you could create shades or an overhanging roof, make it inside a building...plenty of zoos out there as good realistic examples.

Would you mind actually POSTING a pic of your tanks for us to compare? I feel like the people who keep saying this isn't an issue never end up posting their tank or showing us exactly what they do, so it's hard to assess what sort of quality they are talking about.

Yes, we know. The water clearness is turned off in sandbox, and there IS an overhanging roof. Bear IS referring to the reflection of the sunlight. The water could be clean as heck, it's the reflection that is ruining the game.

As for youtubers, one hilarious thing is that Rudi recently posted one of his beautiful tanks on Reddit. Someone asked how he got his tank so clear looking. He responded that he had to edit the photo through Ansel. If that doesn't speak volumes, I don't know what does...

 

[fraser11]

Would you mind actually POSTING a pic of your tanks for us to compare? I feel like the people who keep saying this isn't an issue never end up posting their tank or showing us exactly what they do, so it's hard to assess what sort of quality they are talking about.

Yes, we know. The water clearness is turned off in sandbox, and there IS an overhanging roof. Bear IS referring to the reflection of the sunlight. The water could be clean as heck, it's the reflection that is ruining the game.

As for youtubers, one hilarious thing is that Rudi recently posted one of his beautiful tanks on Reddit. Someone asked how he got his tank so clear looking. He responded that he had to edit the photo through Ansel. If that doesn't speak volumes, I don't know what does...

This is normal on the left and glitched on the right. I feel like I am losing my mind that anyone would think this looks good.

 

[FutureFear]

Would you mind actually POSTING a pic of your tanks for us to compare? I feel like the people who keep saying this isn't an issue never end up posting their tank or showing us exactly what they do, so it's hard to assess what sort of quality they are talking about.

Yes, we know. The water clearness is turned off in sandbox, and there IS an overhanging roof. Bear IS referring to the reflection of the sunlight. The water could be clean as heck, it's the reflection that is ruining the game.

As for youtubers, one hilarious thing is that Rudi recently posted one of his beautiful tanks on Reddit. Someone asked how he got his tank so clear looking. He responded that he had to edit the photo through Ansel. If that doesn't speak volumes, I don't know what does...

As you wish: here is an image (cropped) from my game, 6x4 4M water tank (clean) with sandbox option, walled of with arctic wooden walls and the NEW glass barriers.
Time 12:00 PM (noon) map European Taiga. Sun doesn't shine on the glass, since glass is facing "northish"

https://imgur.com/a/jeKIBuY

Source: https://imgur.com/a/jeKIBuY


Sorry for the imgur workaround, apperently the forum image upload is broken... Not sure why..

Anyway, I don't see any issues with reflection, yes the water is a bit "merky" like water in real also is at such volumes.. It's even cleaner than most underwater tanks in reall zoos lolz.

My graphic options:
EVERYTHING on high, ultra or very high (highest option) with the exception of screen space reflection, it's just "on" (not ultra)
Anti aliasing is on FXAA

If you complain about graphic, upgrade your hardware so you can play on the highest setting, if not, don't complain, it's normal it doesn't look good. Keep in mind it's just a game. Making games photorealistic is atleast a decade away.

As for "Youtubers," yes Rudi uses software to make it look better/enhance his videos to raise the quality. 1 out of atleast 10-15 Youtubers out there, doesn't mean all of them do or have/invest the time doing so.

Hope this settles everyones mind. Want the real thing? Apply to work at a zoo I guess.

 

[Davic]

Thanks for posting. TBQH I don't think that looks good AT ALL and is exactly what is being seen as unacceptable.

Your points don't make sense to me. Yes it's "just a game", which means something that doesn't look good can be fixed. That's the whole point of being a game.

Again, the issue ISN'T with the graphics. The issue is the setting on the glass which causes the obscurity. It's NOT A GRAPHICS PROBLEM. It's an issue with one of their formulas or variables for how glass changes the look of the water.

As for "Youtubers," yes Rudi uses software to make it look better/enhance his videos to raise the quality. 1 out of atleast 10-15 Youtubers out there, doesn't mean all of them do or have/invest the time doing so.

You missed the point. The point is that he can't even post an UNEDITED photo on Reddit since the glass obscurity is unacceptable for the masses to look at. The fact he had to go in and change it says the amount of obscurity/reflection is TOO MUCH.

Hope this settles everyones mind. Want the real thing? Apply to work at a zoo I guess.

This is just unnecessarily snarky.

The people posting about this are people who love this game and want to see one of its most important aspects improved: a choice that was made concerning the degree to which the glass obscures the water under lighting conditions. You can chose to disagree with this, but you don't need to tell everyone who disagrees with you to go work at a zoo.

 

[FutureFear]

Thanks for posting. TBQH I don't think that looks good AT ALL and is exactly what is being seen as unacceptable.

Your points don't make sense to me. Yes it's "just a game", which means something that doesn't look good can be fixed. That's the whole point of being a game.

Again, the issue ISN'T with the graphics. The issue is the setting on the glass which causes the obscurity. It's NOT A GRAPHICS PROBLEM. It's an issue with one of their formulas or variables for how glass changes the look of the water.



You missed the point. The point is that he can't even post an UNEDITED photo on Reddit since the glass obscurity is unacceptable for the masses to look at. The fact he had to go in and change it says the amount of obscurity/reflection is TOO MUCH.



This is just unnecessarily snarky.

The people posting about this are people who love this game and want to see one of its most important aspects improved: a choice that was made concerning the degree to which the glass obscures the water under lighting conditions. You can chose to disagree with this, but you don't need to tell everyone who disagrees with you to go work at a zoo.

I guess it comes down to personal preference, for me, it's not an issue. + I understand why it works this way.
Since the refraction of glass (1,517 in most 3D software) + water with 1,333 will create such graphics, it is how it is. Making it any other number will make it look even worse, less close to the reality and/or the style Frontier wants for their games.
If your volume of water is that big, water = murkier/less visible, hence the reason why zoos place lights underwater so you can see the animals.
Even from before update 1.3 we can toggle lights during the day too, perhaps try and light the scene? Create another light source can ultimately make reflections disappear.(photography 101) (haven't tested it yet)

I'm also sorry if my sarcasm would hurt anyone's feelings. I'm just baffled that people are playing an immensely creative and complex game with top-notch graphics for its category and complain about some glass reflection. Which kinda makes me look at it as a joke, since I'm a professional graphic designer myself. (I'm not perfect, sorry)

Also, you keep saying it's not a graphical issue, yet I can tell from the images posted here, non of the shadows or anti-aliasing is on the highest setting (except mine). Just by the jagged lines on the shadow, I can tell. Perhaps also keep in mind that most objects that are further away are rendered in a low poly version; which changes the shapes, shadows, and ultimately light/sunrays to appear and disappear at certain angles and distances, which tend to make it look bad, yet improve performance immensely.

Even the smallest graphics setting can change an entire game's look and since it's all about visibility, graphics play their part. Even your GPU, kind of monitor, brightness settings, your own eyes all affect how you see and perceive things. It's impossible to argue about visuals, sound, taste, touch, and thoughts aka all our senses, cause it all depends on the person who experiences it.

From a purely technical perspective, it acts correctly and as intended. Is there room to improve, there always is.

 

[Davic]

I'm also sorry if my sarcasm would hurt anyone's feelings. I'm just baffled that people are playing an immensely creative and complex game with top-notch graphics for its category and complain about some glass reflection. Which kinda makes me look at it as a joke, since I'm a professional graphic designer myself. (I'm not perfect, sorry)

You just explained the issue yourself. If it's top notch graphics, yes we're going to raise the issue if everything else looks good and the VERY ANIMALS THEY'VE WORKED SO LONG ON and the ONES WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR are OBSCURED by the reflection. Sorry I have to caps it all, it seems you keep missing my point. As for feelings hurt, not hurt at all, just baffled myself you keep missing the point and resort to weird jokes that actually make no logical sense to try and dismiss concerns. Work at a zoo, you say. Um, no, that's why we've got a game, right? So we don't have to.

Also, you keep saying it's not a graphical issue, yet I can tell from the images posted here, non of the shadows or anti-aliasing is on the highest setting (except mine).

It's not about the aliasing. I don't know why you keep bring it up. It's about how unseeable things are through the glass.

 

[Davic]

And just to reiterate, the image on your high end setting still looks extremely obscured. There are a lot of us very unhappy with that.

 

[FutureFear]

You just explained the issue yourself. If it's top notch graphics, yes we're going to raise the issue if everything else looks good and the VERY ANIMALS THEY'VE WORKED SO LONG ON and the ONES WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR are OBSCURED by the reflection. Sorry I have to caps it all, it seems you keep missing my point. As for feelings hurt, not hurt at all, just baffled myself you keep missing the point and resort to weird jokes that actually make no logical sense to try and dismiss concerns. Work at a zoo, you say. Um, no, that's why we've got a game, right? So we don't have to.



It's not about the aliasing. I don't know why you keep bring it up. It's about how unseeable things are through the glass.

Ok from a technical standpoint, explain to me how the graphic options do not affect the in-game graphics and lighting settings, texture quality, INCLUDING GLASS REFRACTION and thus REFLECTION and TRANSPARENCY???!! Which all are graphical terms of what is going on here...!! -> See the irony yet???
All of those options I mentioned are intertwined into how something looks, which is the whole point is it not? The point being, to my understanding, that you "can't" see your animals in the water further away, because your glass barriers reflect the (sun) light like glass should, to make it look like the real thing...
So having better/higher graphic settings would in fact help to make it look better. (Seems obvious to me)

"The work at a zoo thing" was meant as a dry humor, sarcastic joke, intended to be read with rolling eyes...

And just to reiterate, the image on your high-end setting still looks extremely obscured. There are a lot of us very unhappy with that.

Do you have any idea of how difficult it is to work with transparency in a 3D setting for games?
If not, here is a flashback:
It took over a year before Planet Coaster had it's first transparent glass pieces. Even with full explainer video from Frontier Dev's back then on the matter (in their Wednesday eve, community videos on Youtube)
So, they did a tremendous job having so many different glass and transparent pieces in Planet Zoo at all and they got improved a lot.

Like I mentioned before, it comes down to a purely personal preference, you don't like it, while I don't see any problem. Especially from a technical point of view, there is nothing wrong.

As for the obscured part, have you been to a zoo with an underwater viewing area? I have, back in summer 2019, Sealife Blankenberge (Belgium) to be precise. Their sea lion tank was so dirty I couldn't even view half a meter inside because it was seawater. So from a "realistic" point of view, not able to see that far into the water seems natural and intended to me, it's not a "swimming pool" you create, it's a habitat.

TBH, there are more important "issues" in the game than a reflection. I would rather get more well-designed animals than the dev's wasting time on a reflection and murky (realistic) water that as far as my opinion goes doesn't need any changes.

 

[Davic]

Ok from a technical standpoint, explain to me how the graphic options do not affect the in-game graphics and lighting settings, texture quality, INCLUDING GLASS REFRACTION and thus REFLECTION and TRANSPARENCY???!! Which all are graphical terms of what is going on here...!! -> See the irony yet???

The point is you're using the highest settings, and it still looks, pardon my language, like poo.

So having better/higher graphic settings would in fact help to make it look better. (Seems obvious to me)

Not if it looks like your picture.

Do you have any idea of how difficult it is to work with transparency in a 3D setting for games?
If not, here is a flashback:
It took over a year before Planet Coaster had it's first transparent glass pieces. Even with full explainer video from Frontier Dev's back then on the matter (in their Wednesday eve, community videos on Youtube)
So, they did a tremendous job having so many different glass and transparent pieces in Planet Zoo at all and they got improved a lot.

I don't doubt it's complex, but they are obviously able to get the transparency for the glass itself. The left is the tank with water. The right is the tank WITHOUT any water. The RIGHT should be closer to what a water filled tank looks like for the game. You are telling me there is no way to make it closer to the right without the power of a thousand programmers working day and night? Or could there POSSIBLY be another way that might cause the left to look less muddy?

As for the obscured part, have you been to a zoo with an underwater viewing area? I have, back in summer 2019, Sealife Blankenberge (Belgium) to be precise. Their sea lion tank was so dirty I couldn't even view half a meter inside because it was seawater. So from a "realistic" point of view, not able to see that far into the water seems natural and intended to me, it's not a "swimming pool" you create, it's a habitat.

It's a game, dude. Games are about highlighting the fun or interesting things from the world. Dirty looking tanks are neither fun nor interesting. They're just ugly and boring.

TBH, there are more important "issues" in the game than a reflection. I would rather get more well-designed animals than the dev's wasting time on a reflection and murky (realistic) water that as far as my opinion goes doesn't need any changes.

Strongly disagree. Hope they change this because they did such a marvelous job with the pack, and it's a crying shame that the glass issue detracts from the wonderful artistry of the animals.

 

[NZFanatic]

Want the real thing? Apply to work at a zoo I guess.

You can chose to disagree with this, but you don't need to tell everyone who disagrees with you to go work at a zoo.

Work at a zoo, you say. Um, no, that's why we've got a game, right? So we don't have to.

I just want to point out that it's hilarious that despite disagreeing, you've somehow both managed to disparage zookeeping as a profession. You know, while arguing about the graphics of a game where you have to build and manage a zoo. I hope the irony isn't lost on you.

 

[fraser11]

As you wish: here is an image (cropped) from my game, 6x4 4M water tank (clean) with sandbox option, walled of with arctic wooden walls and the NEW glass barriers.
Time 12:00 PM (noon) map European Taiga. Sun doesn't shine on the glass, since glass is facing "northish"

https://imgur.com/a/jeKIBuY

Source: https://imgur.com/a/jeKIBuY


Sorry for the imgur workaround, apperently the forum image upload is broken... Not sure why..

Anyway, I don't see any issues with reflection, yes the water is a bit "merky" like water in real also is at such volumes.. It's even cleaner than most underwater tanks in reall zoos lolz.

My graphic options:
EVERYTHING on high, ultra or very high (highest option) with the exception of screen space reflection, it's just "on" (not ultra)
Anti aliasing is on FXAA

If you complain about graphic, upgrade your hardware so you can play on the highest setting, if not, don't complain, it's normal it doesn't look good. Keep in mind it's just a game. Making games photorealistic is atleast a decade away.

As for "Youtubers," yes Rudi uses software to make it look better/enhance his videos to raise the quality. 1 out of atleast 10-15 Youtubers out there, doesn't mean all of them do or have/invest the time doing so.

Hope this settles everyones mind. Want the real thing? Apply to work at a zoo I guess.

The water section looks awful though and that water section is tiny and only gets worse. No reason for it to look so dark. it is not an artistic choice for any reason, it is not a game limitation as the glitch shows it is just an unaddressed issue since launch.