Astronomy / Space Locating a real star in ED?

I'd like to find 2MASS J19280644+3736023 (KIC 2305543) but I just don't think this is in the game :(

I can find systems beginning with "2MASS J193"... But not "2MASS J192" :(

SO before I give up... Am I basically right in saying, if "2MASS J19280644+3736023" is not in the ED Galactic Map, then it's NOT in the galactic map? ie: It wouldn't be in there under a different name/reference?
 
SO before I give up... Am I basically right in saying, if "2MASS J19280644+3736023" is not in the ED Galactic Map, then it's NOT in the galactic map? ie: It wouldn't be in there under a different name/reference?

most probably not.

the 2MASS/KIC object i find in simbad has no other desgnation. it is even mising an approximate distance. basically you are missing one value to indentify it further.

what you could do, is
- going to sol
- use a plotting program like alladin to get a skychart with some easy to recognize real galaxy stars "around" (visually) KIC 2305543
- identify "KIC 2305543" in the sky chart from sol, by marking systems in the galaxy map, till you have found a matching one.

the star you'll mark won't be "KIC 2305543" but a procedurally generated star at more or less the same place most probably.
 
most probably not.

the 2MASS/KIC object i find in simbad has no other desgnation. it is even mising an approximate distance. basically you are missing one value to indentify it further.

what you could do, is
- going to sol
- use a plotting program like alladin to get a skychart with some easy to recognize real galaxy stars "around" (visually) KIC 2305543
- identify "KIC 2305543" in the sky chart from sol, by marking systems in the galaxy map, till you have found a matching one.

the star you'll mark won't be "KIC 2305543" but a procedurally generated star at more or less the same place most probably.

...and it would been to be a binary star too :)
 
most probably not.

the 2MASS/KIC object i find in simbad has no other desgnation. it is even mising an approximate distance. basically you are missing one value to indentify it further.

what you could do, is
- going to sol
- use a plotting program like alladin to get a skychart with some easy to recognize real galaxy stars "around" (visually) KIC 2305543
- identify "KIC 2305543" in the sky chart from sol, by marking systems in the galaxy map, till you have found a matching one.

the star you'll mark won't be "KIC 2305543" but a procedurally generated star at more or less the same place most probably.
Memory from a while ago tells me that there's a limit to how far a "selected system" navigation marker in ED will show up in the cockpit view. I was trying to track down "where are those bright stars" (yeah, that nebula as I know now) and was running into this trying to eyeball the direction.

If I get around to it I'll write something to convert RA/Dec into a ED co-ords unit vector, which then will just need multiplying up to add distance. Then it's a matter of just doing that until it gets close enough to a game star.
 
Hmm. Calculating the coordinate transformation between astronomical [spherical] and E: D [cartesian] is faintly more non-trivial than I thought. I'm assuming Sgr A* is in basically the right place, as it's so close to being exactly in the z direction. Having that gives a rotation from one vector to another about a specific axis - basically you have a great circle between them giving the axis and angle for that arc. Then a second star rotated about the axis you have for the vector for the first one (basically rotating the coordinate system about Sgr A*) should fix it and give you the single rotation you actually need from multiplying the two rotation matrices, but doing that for a couple of fairly simple cases and checking for the third (and handling some not unexpected rounding errors as best as one might reasonably manage) doesn't seem to give satisfyingly consistent results...

Something for the morning I think.
There's a very good tool that will do it for you:

http://www.robertmartinayers.org/tools/coordinates.html

SIMBAD and ARICNS will give more data, including space velocity (on the latter) so you can work out where a star will have moved to in 1300 years' time. A also used it to make Traveller RPG maps in 3D for the 2400 or so stars nearest to Sol (using an Excel spreadsheet for conversion and cross-checking with HIPPARCOS data).

Real stars which don't show up in Elite include the first two systems ever found with exoplanets (neutron stars far outside the galactic plane: ED just has empty space where they should be) and, I think, Tabby's Star which is the one scientists spotted dimming strangely and some speculate may have a Dyson sphere being built around it!

It's fun finding catalogue errors where Elite has the same star in the bubble with two slight different names :)
beta-3 tucanae.jpg
 
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If I get around to it I'll write something to convert RA/Dec into a ED co-ords unit vector, which then will just need multiplying up to add distance. Then it's a matter of just doing that until it gets close enough to a game star.
That's what I did with my Excel sheet, I can vary the distance (e.g. if SIMBAD is altered) and get the revised x, y, z coordinates.
 
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As mentioned already E D Galaxy map uses a Cartesian system where it's x, y and z seem to have a strange derivation from Galactic Co-ordinates, which was not clarified by Michael in his response here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...l-star-in-ED?p=5135910&viewfull=1#post5135910
The mx, y, z is fairly simple to determine from the Galaxy Map grid in game. x is "trailing" ie positive x figures go towards the "east" or against the direction of spin where Sol is(so negative x numbers go in the direction of the galaxy's rotation at Sol), y is Galactic North (positive) and Galactic South (negative) as in conventional astronomy, and z is positive towards the core from Sol and negative towards the rim from Sol.

- - - Updated - - -

Either I'm missing something or that tool doesn't allow you to enter any distance data, and either way is still only giving you some polar co-ordinates which most people would struggle to make use of with the ED Galaxy Map.
You need some trigonometry using the distance to get the x, y, z location, which is what I made the spreadsheet for. I was just answering the point about the difficulty of converting equatorial coordinates to galactic (you need to know the star catalogue's epoch as well for which you're using coordinates, though these days unless stated otherwise it is usually J2000). The one annoyance with doing the trig on Excel is having to convert to radians rather than degrees but once I'd figured out the sine disambiguation (using the wonderful "Practical Astronomy with your calculator or spreadsheet" book, an update of one I first used in the 1990s for similar purposes) I got a sheet which will work for any star, I just plug in the Galactic Coordinates from the java tool and the distance from (say) SIMBAD and it tells me exactly where on the galaxy map any star should be. I also made a formula to work out where the star would be in the future using the x, y, z that ARICNS gives for space velocity (proper motion, etc) as stars move relative to each other over time. Not everyone's idea of fun but I loved it!
 
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The mx, y, z is fairly simple to determine from the Galaxy Map grid in game. x is "trailing" ie positive x figures go towards the "east" or against the direction of spin where Sol is(so negative x numbers go in the direction of the galaxy's rotation at Sol), y is Galactic North (positive) and Galactic South (negative) as in conventional astronomy, and z is positive towards the core from Sol and negative towards the rim from Sol.

- - - Updated - - -

You need some trigonometry using the distance to get the x, y, z location, which is what I made the spreadsheet for. I was just answering the point about the difficulty of converting equatorial coordinates to galactic (you need to know the star catalogue's epoch as well for which you're using coordinates, though these days unless stated otherwise it is usually J2000). The one annoyance with doing the trig on Excel is having to convert to radians rather than degrees but once I'd figured out the sine disambiguation (using the wonderful "Practical Astronomy with your calculator or spreadsheet" book, an update of one I first used in the 1990s for similar purposes) I got a sheet which will work for any star, I just plug in the Galactic Coordinates from the java tool and the distance from (say) SIMBAD and it tells me exactly where on the galaxy map any star should be. I also made a formula to work out where the star would be in the future using the x, y, z that ARICNS gives for space velocity (proper motion, etc) as stars move relative to each other over time. Not everyone's idea of fun but I loved it!

can you share a copy of your excel sheet? sounds great, and the the formulas used in there could be easily cnverted to give out coordinates for any distance.
 
can you share a copy of your excel sheet? sounds great, and the the formulas used in there could be easily cnverted to give out coordinates for any distance.
I'll see if I can stick it on Google Docs.

I had fun just now adding TRAPPIST-1 (M8 dwarf with several new earthlike planets which has hit the news this week).
 
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