Lock the biggest criminals to Open Play and make them visible on the Galaxy Map

I'm not saying any criminal, but the ones that have killed a high number of clean players/NPCs. I think this could lead to some real PvP interaction.

Making them visible on the Galaxy Map could also lead to some proper bounty hunting, but I've heard Sandro talking about some kind of "tracking limpets" so maybe this wouldn't be necessary.

Thoughts?
 
I'm not saying any criminal, but the ones that have killed a high number of clean players/NPCs. I think this could lead to some real PvP interaction.

Making them visible on the Galaxy Map could also lead to some proper bounty hunting, but I've heard Sandro talking about some kind of "tracking limpets" so maybe this wouldn't be necessary.

Thoughts?

Entirely possible, but for PvP crimes only.

A lot of PvE only players in PowerPlay a mass huge bounties to gain merits, these players then being prime legal targets for PvPers, from which they can not hide, or run from, would likely cause outrage.

Being locked to Open for excessive CMDR murder would be ok, but generally, these CMDRs only play in Open anyway. Lol
A way to track them would be handy, but we also need to fix the shedding of bounties via suicidewindering.

Don't forget, it's also entirely possible to set your router up to not instance with anyone, and yet play in Open. :)

Lots to consider there.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
 
CMDRs?

I have to support an adapted stance of a dead french philosopher: "I may not like what you say or do, and will fight against you on every turn, but by God, I will give my last breath for your right to do so."

There are rules in this game, and those rules apply to everyone. If you want to get these CMDRs on your radar, have you tried sending them a friend request?

Now, a better crime & punishment system - that is something we have been discussing here for at least a year (probabaly longer, but I'll have to check how long I am on this forum). One of the leaders of The CODE has some very interesting ideas on that front. Yes, even the "bad guys" want a better balanced c&p.

Or are you referring to the last big manhunt? Declare a NPC (possible controlled through a player) as most wanted, and try to hunt them down before they reach their target? This has possibilities, but the practical aspect of that probably will require some refelction on the technical side, i.e. instancing is simply not up to it.

Oh, and btw., instancing would also be deadly to your idea - those baddies usually have friends, and there are ways to saturate instances to their braking point. So unless they let you in, you'll never see them. If they let you in, your chances of seeing them are also slim :D .
 
Lock to open? The place were we already playing the game?
You serious? LOL
Going to kill someone right now, only to generate more hate. :x
 
Entirely possible, but for PvP crimes only.

A lot of PvE only players in PowerPlay a mass huge bounties to gain merits, these players then being prime legal targets for PvPers, from which they can not hide, or run from, would likely cause outrage.

Possibly the worst example, as mass slaying to gain a PP advantage from private play is kinda shameful anyway. These players would be among the first I boot to Open ;)
 
Entirely possible, but for PvP crimes only.

My thinking was for the game to generate PvE targets on the map as well, in case there are not enough PvP targets playing. And it gives new players interested in real bounty hunting targets that they can handle, assuming you can see their rank and ship.

This would also require proper rewards for following them across systems.

Don't forget, it's also entirely possible to set your router up to not instance with anyone, and yet play in Open. :)

Yeah, that's an aspect I haven't thought about. P2P being a pain in the once again. Although, we'll have to see what type of Karma system they want to implement and how can criminal make their record clean.


If you want to get these CMDRs on your radar, have you tried sending them a friend request?

I'm sorry, but friending someone shouldn't be the go-to mechanic for tracking criminals. It might be right now, but it doesn't make it ok.

Oh, and btw., instancing would also be deadly to your idea - those baddies usually have friends, and there are ways to saturate instances to their braking point. So unless they let you in, you'll never see them. If they let you in, your chances of seeing them are also slim .

I don't know what instances you've been seeing, but very few people have enough friends to saturate an entire instance and stay with them constantly in that instance. There's very little reason to do so, since there's no reward for such big groups. And there's no RES/CZ challenging enough to require such a big group. Those are edge cases and shouldn't really dictate mechanics, unless FDev plans on adding that type of group content.
 
I don't know what instances you've been seeing, but very few people have enough friends to saturate an entire instance and stay with them constantly in that instance. There's very little reason to do so, since there's no reward for such big groups. And there's no RES/CZ challenging enough to require such a big group. Those are edge cases and shouldn't really dictate mechanics, unless FDev plans on adding that type of group content.

Ok, this is a sidetrack - but still an impediment, as was seen in the Salomé event.
As for my instancing experiences: with 8, I have no troubles. With 30, I try to avoid heavy breathing.

So, another suggestion: once a CMDR (or, for FDs amusement and/or CG purposes, an NPC) gains sufficient notoriety (for discussion purposes: take a 1 MCr. bounty as a measure for that), it is possible to "enemy" them. They can't deny this request, and the link isn't reciprocal, but they will show up (with a different icon, of course) on the radar of anyone who "enemied" them.

But I think that would give an unfair advantage to the tracker, so I can imagine a few ways to balance this mechanic a bit:
- "enemy" position is only accurate to within ~10 ly
- "enemy" gets a notice that they are "enemied" (not by whom, though - but by how many would be nice)
- once combat has been joined (i.e. you shot at and hit them), they can "tag" you, as a reciprocal version of "enemy", with the same mechanics
- death of either party (including suicidewinder) breaks the link
 
I'm always wondering when reading such a suggestion, how narrow the perspective on how people play the game can be.

take me for exampel. I'm doing a lot of backgroundsimulation work and testing. i often have several millions of bounties on my head for it. now, i also work abroard regularly, in which case i'm tethering elite via my mobile phone, sometimes below umts data speed.

this surprisingly works very well, but only in solo. i mainly go exploring during those times. if you search the forums for tethering, you will be surprised how many players are for exampel working on sea, playing via similar data connections.

locking me to open because of some millions of bounties i have on my head would lock me out of the game for several weeks.

i also think, the number of people who go to solo/group, after committing a crime in open, is much smaller than the number of people who switch between solo and open because they want this or that experience, or are in this or that mode - beside all of those, which only play in one of the three modes all of the time, and don't want to play in any other ever (which is a small group I'd guess).
 
Good thing I got my Packhounds already. Phew.

*Continues flying in open*

...oh wait...

Lulz :p

Actually, this is NOT what I referred to, sorry for any confusion. PP module farming....go balls out, son.

What I mean is if someone actively engaged in PP for actual PP reasons is unable to complete a goal in Open, and so takes to PG to complete it, and thusly begins a tale of BGS manipulation that can't be countered.

That is an example of why IMO the shared BGS and save state across Open/Private/Solo leads to dead gameplay, but I'll be seeing footage of Vladmir Putin engaged in an orgy featuring Wee Man before it's revised...
 
I'm always wondering when reading such a suggestion, how narrow the perspective on how people play the game can be.

take me for exampel. I'm doing a lot of backgroundsimulation work and testing. i often have several millions of bounties on my head for it. now, i also work abroard regularly, in which case i'm tethering elite via my mobile phone, sometimes below umts data speed.

this surprisingly works very well, but only in solo. i mainly go exploring during those times. if you search the forums for tethering, you will be surprised how many players are for exampel working on sea, playing via similar data connections.

locking me to open because of some millions of bounties i have on my head would lock me out of the game for several weeks.

i also think, the number of people who go to solo/group, after committing a crime in open, is much smaller than the number of people who switch between solo and open because they want this or that experience, or are in this or that mode - beside all of those, which only play in one of the three modes all of the time, and don't want to play in any other ever (which is a small group I'd guess).

The amount of clean NPC killing you would need to do would be extremely high compared to the amount of clean CMDR killing.

And I'm sorry, but the game shouldn't be built around those who "test the BGS" and get wanted. You're going to actually play the game eventually. You can't stay in test mode forever.
 
... it is possible to "enemy" them.

that's a very interesting idea, as it is some kind of weird that ingame enemies have to friend each other, to make sure they get instanced, and it could be build upon... restricting it to got hit by them , and i think "last docked at"-icon and "online" if in same group or open would be all information needed for happy hunting, and restricting it to got hit or destroyed by them would be maybe a good idea... plus for ending it with death.

i'd think a lot of "criminals" would be proud about their enemies list, and it would be a reason not to suicidewind.
 
Lulz :p

Actually, this is NOT what I referred to, sorry for any confusion. PP module farming....go balls out, son.

What I mean is if someone actively engaged in PP for actual PP reasons is unable to complete a goal in Open, and so takes to PG to complete it, and thusly begins a tale of BGS manipulation that can't be countered.

That is an example of why IMO the shared BGS and save state across Open/Private/Solo leads to dead gameplay, but I'll be seeing footage of Vladmir Putin engaged in an orgy featuring Wee Man before it's revised...

Yeah, I really wonder if they ever plan on making PP Open only. Not sure if it's just technically difficult or they're just afraid to upset the hardcore Solo/PG crowd.

It's a no-brainer from my perspective.
 
The amount of clean NPC killing you would need to do would be extremely high compared to the amount of clean CMDR killing.

And I'm sorry, but the game shouldn't be built around those who "test the BGS" and get wanted. You're going to actually play the game eventually. You can't stay in test mode forever.

i don't think you know what you are talking about. something like this is highly valuable for a lot of players and player groups -> https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...Bounties-Mechanic-and-Bountyhunting-after-2-3 ...

if you think there is only one/your way to play the game, you are failing to understand something very basic about this game.
 
open vs. group vs. solo thread is this way -> https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...en-v-Solo-v-Groups-thread-IV-Hotel-California

i suggest reading the first two posts at least, and join the discussion.

Yeah, I really wonder if they ever plan on making PP Open only.

you don't need to wonder, you can answer yourself after reading this dev quotes.

Will at any time solo and private group play be separated into a different universe/database from open play? It's kind of cheap that you can be safe from many things in solo, like player blockades and so on, and still affect the same universe.

No.

Michael

Thanks for that clarity Michael.

Are you in a position to confirm that group switching between the three game modes will remain as a feature of the game?

We're not planning on changing that.

Michael

According to some members of the community, Solo players should have a limited or no effect on Powerplay - or, alternatively, playing in Open should offer Powerplay bonuses. Is this something you are considering?
No. For us Solo, Groups and Open are all valid and equal ways to play the game.

Is there planned to be any defense against the possibility that player created minor factions could be destroyed with no possible recourse through Private Groups or Solo play?
From the initial inception of the game we have considered all play modes are equally valid choices. While we are aware that some players disagree, this hasn't changed for us.
Michael
 
i'd think a lot of "criminals" would be proud about their enemies list, and it would be a reason not to suicidewind.

nmibU.jpg
 
open vs. group vs. solo thread is this way -> https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...en-v-Solo-v-Groups-thread-IV-Hotel-California

i suggest reading the first two posts at least, and join the discussion.



you don't need to wonder, you can answer yourself after reading this dev quotes.


I do like your bookmarked comments that defend your style of playing, which btw nobody specifically attacked, but those comments are all from 2015.

I was basing my question on Sandro's comment from 2016, which I love how you didn't link to:

Hello Commanders!

Lots of lively debate here, for sure, but let's keep things civil, please. I understand that this is an emotive subject, but remember, that's never an excuse for being rude.

So, just to let you folk know a little more of the reasoning behind the concept of an Open Play bonus, I thought I'd pop this out.

Elite Dangerous is a game where you can just as easily play solo, in groups or as part of a nation, as it were.

In general, there aren't mechanical befits within the game to push you towards one style of play over another.

However, there are a few aspects of the game that are specifically aimed at utilising the fact that the game has multiplayer facets, one of these is Powerplay.

Powerplay is unique in that it explicitly *enforces* adversarial multiplayer by making Commanders choose sides. You are no longer fighting against the vagaries of the galaxy; you are competing directly with Commanders pledged to opposing powers.

In addition, Powerplay has rules to handle direct Commander-Commander confrontation. Indeed, this is the core conceit: the system encourages justifiable piracy and homicide for a higher purpose. It’s my belief that Powerplay will always be at its best when opposing Commanders interact directly, whether in an expansion conflict zone or through interdiction.

So it feels natural (to me) to look at ways to encourage Commanders to use Open Play. However, It’s also fairly clear that human opposition is potentially, and generally speaking, much more of a significant threat than NPCs.

Now we have to consider probabilities. Yes, it’s perfectly reasonable to say that you might never run into a human opponent in a control system, even playing in open. The fact remains however, that you *might* instead run into several. And this is on top of the standard NPC threat, which is identical in all play modes.

What’s more, the more pledged Commanders that play in Open, the greater the likelihood there is of human interaction and conflict.

There are thousands of Commanders that engage to some degree or another in Powerplay. Some play in Open, some don’t. If we are successful in getting more Commanders into Open, then the potential for them bumping into each other could increase rather significantly.

And there’s another point to make here, that’s quite simple but also fairly undeniable, is that playing in Open you don’t just meet other Commanders pledged to Powers. You meet *all* other Commanders. That includes all sorts of scum and villainy (character persona only, of course).

So what would an Open Play Success bonus actually achieve? The idea is that it’s a reward for taking the additional risk, whether the risk actually manifests or not.

If you care about Powerplay, and care that you power does well in it, then playing in Open is a “force multiplier” for your Power’s strength.

If you generally play in a Private Group or in Solo, it’s also a gamble, because in addition to all the NPC challenges you have the possibility of opposing Commanders engaging you.

If you already play in Open then you could treat this bonus as a reward for working with the game to make it the best it can be for all involved.

As to the size of the bonus, well, that’s up for grabs. Clearly it would have to be reasonably large to have the potential to cause significant change, but I’m not too worried about the details of that at the moment, I’m more interested in what folk make of the concept in general.

Of course, it’s equally important to remember that this is, at the moment, just being raised as an idea, nothing more. Everyone’s opinion is equally valid, even in disagreement, and all feedback is useful.

No need to get feisty in my thread, and honestly I really don't care that much about NPC engagement. My point was really around making PvP engagement better.
 
I really don't care that much about NPC engagement.

well, you especially mentioned it in your opening post. afaik FDEV are looking into differentiate beteen "pilots federation bounties" (=pvp aquired bounties?) and general bounties. while i personally dislike that (as i personally would prefer a game where there are as few differences between npc and players as possible, and that includes massively upping the difficulty of high ranked npcs to match the difficulty of pvp engagements), there are still "technical" problems with locking somebody to any mode, which i have described above.

i think, what is great with Ashnaks proposal is that it allows to gain some notoriety via a huge enemies list.
 
I personally think PowerPlay should have a bonus in Open.
No idea what, but it is significantly more dangerous to fly under a pp flag in open, in hostile territory.

There's loads of problems though, like P2P rigging to avoid players, etc.

But PowerPlay IMHO, needs an overhaul anyway. It's kinda lame, and disconnected from the galaxy.
And unlocking the modules is just a matter of signing up, waiting 3 weeks, then murder just 25 PowerPlay ships, cash in, and fly off with your modules.

And we're off topic.
 
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