Lockdown without Blackmarket?

[Lucius-Darcia]

Hello people

The question i have is simple, how can we bring a system into lockdown without a blackmarket and without hurting the controling faction too much?
Would be glad to here some suggestions

 

[Ouberos]

I'm an amateur at this but I think you could lock everyone else up in a war and then attack the system authority or maybe Pirate everyone.

The others couldn't gain from the loss of loss of influence due to being in a war.

Not 100% about that mind.

 

[Mohrgan]

You bring the lock Down state about by causing disorder in that system. Commit crimes. smuggling, assault, and murder. The most effective method I know of is to destroy system authority vessels. The thing to remember is; some states block the advent of other states. For a Boom/Bust state to happen in a system it may have to wait for the lock down to conclude before changing conditions.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

You bring the lock Down state about by causing disorder in that system. Commit crimes. smuggling, assault, and murder. The most effective method I know of is to destroy system authority vessels. The thing to remember is; some states block the advent of other states. For a Boom/Bust state to happen in a system it may have to wait for the lock down to conclude before changing conditions.

This is what we want, our playerfaction is controling faction in this system and we have pending state expansion.

Now we get attacked via 1t-nukening again and we wanna cause a lockdown to close the market and prevent from further influence loss.

Thanks

 

[Falcon_D]

Thought FD fixed the 1t nuking problem.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

Thought FD fixed the 1t nuking problem.

They just nerfed it a bit but they can not fix it without making trade 0% influence change.

It's still working like nothing else. We lost on 1 day 32% influence on 1 load from a corvette.

 

[Mohrgan]

To expand you have to have at least a 75% influence in your system. If that is triggered, it automatically causes a 15% influence loss as a price of the expansion. Did your group expand? If so, a good half of that change could/should be attributed to the expansion.

P.S. The level of population seems to be the biggest indicator for the rate of change you can expect in tick. The smaller the Population, the faster any change can be forced. What is your systems' population level?

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

To expand you have to have at least a 75% influence in your system. If that is triggered it automatically triggers a 15% influence loss as a price of the expansion. Did your group expand? If so, a good half of that change could/should be attributed to the expansion.

No expansion yet and the loss would only happen in the system from where the expansion starts. This should be our system with the highest influence atm and is much further away. We are atm at 10 systems present and it's just 2 systems where we experience an attack against our faction.

 

[Mohrgan]

It looks like you have a good handle on things. One last suggestion though; watch this is you haven't already.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

It looks like you have a good handle on things. One last suggestion though; watch this is you haven't already.

Thank you, can't rep you again^^
But they confirm what i've feared. Lockdown through murder and crime and stuff

+1 virt rep

 

[Paineframe]

Are you SURE there's only one person attacking your faction, and that they're doing it just by trade? And if only one person's doing it, shouldn't it be just as easy to counteract it by doing the same thing? I don't want to be overly doubtful, but if it was that easy for one person with a trade ship to single-handedly tank a faction being supported by players, everyone would be doing it. That's a really large influence drop, I really suspect something more is at work there.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

Are you SURE there's only one person attacking your faction, and that they're doing it just by trade? And if only one person's doing it, shouldn't it be just as easy to counteract it by doing the same thing? I don't want to be overly doubtful, but if it was that easy for one person with a trade ship to single-handedly tank a faction being supported by players, everyone would be doing it. That's a really large influence drop, I really suspect something more is at work there.

We have confirmed it.
The traffic report at the station is very helpful. We were able to identify every single ship except one Corvette and one Type-6. These 2 ships are foreigners we don't know.
And since there aren't any bountys reported, we can only suggest that nobody have murdered our ships because this also would trigger a lockdown.
No RES-sites available and shooting random wanted faction ships isn't enough to make SUCH a change in influence.
So this influence drop was made by 1 or both of these 2 ships via "legal activities" like nuke-attack. No other possibility

We experienced such an attack some time ago before and the attacking faction have confirmed after ceasefire that they used this mechanic. That's why we know about it. And yes it is possible to hurt a faction really hard with just one single Cutter load if selled wisely.
The problem here is, that it is an exploit that works mostly only one-way

 

[goemon]

We have confirmed it.
The traffic report at the station is very helpful. We were able to identify every single ship except one Corvette and one Type-6. These 2 ships are foreigners we don't know.
And since there aren't any bountys reported, we can only suggest that nobody have murdered our ships because this also would trigger a lockdown.
No RES-sites available and shooting random wanted faction ships isn't enough to make SUCH a change in influence.
So this influence drop was made by 1 or both of these 2 ships via "legal activities" like nuke-attack. No other possibility

We experienced such an attack some time ago before and the attacking faction have confirmed after ceasefire that they used this mechanic. That's why we know about it. And yes it is possible to hurt a faction really hard with just one single Cutter load if selled wisely.
The problem here is, that it is an exploit that works mostly only one-way

- afaik the last tests have been, that negative influence effect of trade isn't anymore. see here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ckground-Sim?p=4441158&viewfull=1#post4441158

- you can't draw those conclusions from the crime report. "The Crime Report lists the total of bounties and fines in the last 24 h (approx), which went into any CMDR’s left hand trasaction panel." - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ckground-Sim?p=3721127&viewfull=1#post3721127

and "The Bounty Hunter Report lists - the number of single Bounty Claim-Transactions per minor or major faction in the system. (When you hunted 20 wanted ships down, and you claim the bounty for all of them in one go, the Bounty Hunter Report will list it as “1 Bounty Claimed”) - the total value of Bounty transactions in system"


it is much more likely that that corvette is sitting in your system, shooting system security. which will lead to lockdown/civil unrest.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

- afaik the last tests have been, that negative influence effect of trade isn't anymore. see here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ckground-Sim?p=4441158&viewfull=1#post4441158

- you can't draw those conclusions from the crime report. "The Crime Report lists the total of bounties and fines in the last 24 h (approx), which went into any CMDR’s left hand trasaction panel." - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ckground-Sim?p=3721127&viewfull=1#post3721127

and "The Bounty Hunter Report lists - the number of single Bounty Claim-Transactions per minor or major faction in the system. (When you hunted 20 wanted ships down, and you claim the bounty for all of them in one go, the Bounty Hunter Report will list it as “1 Bounty Claimed”) - the total value of Bounty transactions in system"


it is much more likely that that corvette is sitting in your system, shooting system security. which will lead to lockdown/civil unrest.

It happened a second tick without causing pending state lockdown so we are sure that this isn't made via shooting Security Vessels.

And sry but the nuke-attack still works. Not as hard as last year but it still works very good. As you have seen we follow the BGS-stats very wisely and we can confirm that it still makes negative effect to the inluence.
It's not the first time where we are experience such an attack and this is the reason why we have to lockdown the market to prevent from further drops. This means, to counter this attack we have to attack our own security vessels since we haven't a black-market only to cause a lockdown to the system.

If an Attacker would make it via legal methods like shooting Security Vessels and the system goes to lockdown, you can't start a war with the attacked faction and this isn't what the attacker wants. He want a fast drop-down from our faction so that a smaller faction starts instant a war after we fall below 5% and than we get kicked out of system.

Sry but this is a scenario what we don't have the first time and we know that there is nearly no chance to counter it. Only if we can cause the lockdown before it's too late.


Beside this, your link where they made the tests.....sry they did it wrong.
This isn't about demand/supply selling. There is an other method and even in this thread they confirmed that it still works, not as huge as before but still....

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

Here is our tool to follow the BGS

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/285850-jaaka-net-imperial-bgs-tracking-tool

 

[goemon]

back to the original question: without a blackmarket, you could try to trigger lockdown via fines and other crimes, without murder ... that should trigger lockdown as well, without hurting influence of the controlling faction that much. i don't think somebody has tested that recently, though.

Beside this, your link where they made the tests.....sry they did it wrong.
This isn't about demand/supply selling. There is an other method and even in this thread they confirmed that it still works, not as huge as before but still....

if you read up the following question in the thread, it was about no-demand-selling for loss trading; i'm not sure what other method besides selling for a loss there was/is to drop a factions influence via legal trade. if it doesn't work anymore, this has been changed very recently.

anyway, i would love to read a different test on it.