PvP Long Range Sensors

[Krakenheim]

Hi

I am wondering how efficient would be Long Range Sensors vs Stealth ships.
As I am a newb in PVP for me Stealth ships have very low heat signature and use dazzle shells (anything else I am missing ?).
I am planning on building a Cutter and was wondering if 8A Long range sensors would be of use.

Thanks

 

[cmdr Ramius007]

Best will be long range pulse laser turret with emissive effect, turrets ignore stealth, also no matter how strong your sensors are, you will lose lock when ships deploy heatsink, emissive counter this also.

 

[Morbad]

Long range will increase the range at which you can detect unresolved contacts (the maximum range) and the range at which you can resolve (and target) contacts, but for some ships this will still be very low.

A few fixed hitscan weapons helps a lot against silent vessels (though these will be of limited utility on a cutter) and, as noted by Ramius007 fire-at-will turrets don't need a lock to engage.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

Hitscan
Fighters
Emissive
Turrets
Missiles
Corrosive

All help punch stealth right in the PP. Emissive/missiles are particularly annoying.

In a cutter you could probably just 4 pips to SYS and laugh as your fighter chips away at them, and you spam missiles between TLB cooldowns.

 

[Krakenheim]

Thanks for the help.
I understand almost everything but I just dont know what "HItscan" weapons are.
Also Cknarf by "Corrosive" you meen the mod on weapons (Corrosive Shell), Enzyme missiles or something else ?
Sorry for being such a noob.

Thanks

 

[Sethiest]

Also night vision lol. Not exactly a direct answer, but if youre struggling to physically see them in the black, night vision makes them stick out.

 

[cmdr Ramius007]

I understand almost everything but I just dont know what "HItscan" weapons are.

Those are weapons that "can" make "hits" lasers and railguns

 

[TheGrimCorsair]

Thanks for the help.
I understand almost everything but I just dont know what "HItscan" weapons are.
Also Cknarf by "Corrosive" you meen the mod on weapons (Corrosive Shell), Enzyme missiles or something else ?
Sorry for being such a noob.

Thanks

"Hitscan" is a method by which impacts from the fired weapon are traced immediately on firing. IE: Whent he weapon fires, whatever is under the weapon's crosshair is struck immediately, as opposed to creating a projectile that must traverse the space between the weapon and target. Hitscan in Elite: Dangerous is applicable to all lasers and railguns.

 

[Screemonster]

8A long range sensors are only really of use in bounty hunting or the like if you want to find new targets easily as and when they jump into the zone without having to keep an eye out for weapons fire in the distance when you're beyond sensor range from the other side of the res.

As Ramius said, emissive turrets are your best counter against stealthboats. Whether you're likely to run into enough stealthboats that emissive turrets become worth sacrificing a hardpoint is another matter.

 

[dm06]

I understand almost everything but I just dont know what "HItscan" weapons are.

Two types of weapons here:
1. hitscan - hit at the point you aim right now
2. projectile - have some limited speed, thus requires some assistance from the ship to predict position where you need to shoot, as a result this kind of harder to use without locked target.

 

[Morbad]

Second half of this video might be relevant:

Source: https://youtu.be/WiHk9hMpLIA?t=120


Target's ship and loadout in SC gave away their intent. At a bit after two-minutes in, an unresolved contact (silent running doesn't change the maximum range for unresolved contacts, just resolved ones) away from the group revealed rough location, then the sillouette when target was against the sun confirmed it as the DBX I was looking for. A hitscan rail shot let the target know there wasn't any sense in trying to hide. The target flashes white and resolves automatically during the torpedo lock it tries to make, which gives me an opportunity to order the SLF to attack it, providing a very obvious indicator of specific location. A moment later, while still too cold for me to lock on to, my fire-at-will turrets begin to track and engage it and I follow up with some more fixed hitscan fire. Realizing the jig is up the target withdraws.

Obviously, things can get much more complex and confusing with multiple targets and more sensor clutter, but I find this example useful to isolate how several related mechanisms can work.

Long range sensors would have significantly extended the range at which both the unresolved target would have appeared, as well as the resolve distance, but as the former is already beyond weapon range and the latter still very short, they are rarely a game changer when it comes to stealth. Nightvision (which that video predates) is a much bigger deal., but even it is now limited to sub-10km and will rarely reveal things beyond basic unresolved detection radius.

 

[Sethiest]

I think the only weapon to really benefit from long range are canons with long range on them? Canons can shoot to 9km. Never tried it though.

 

[Screemonster]

Nightvision (which that video predates) is a much bigger deal., but even it is now limited to sub-10km and will rarely reveal things beyond basic unresolved detection radius.

I still think nightvision should be treated as an active scanner that gives your position away.

Hell, imagine if missile locks were shorter for hot targets, as well as turrets and gimbals having a harder time tracking them, but combine that with things like nightvision providing a definitive fix for people to lock onto. (And shields providing a stronger signature, since there's little advantage of silent running over just popping a sink)

 

[Morbad]

I still think nightvision should be treated as an active scanner that gives your position away.

Hell, imagine if missile locks were shorter for hot targets, as well as turrets and gimbals having a harder time tracking them, but combine that with things like nightvision providing a definitive fix for people to lock onto. (And shields providing a stronger signature, since there's little advantage of silent running over just popping a sink)

I'd like it if NV was a cone that depended on one's headlights being active and if it illuminated everything in that cone for everyone, kinda like the bug they had with the first incarnation in the beta (which wasn't a cone, but others could see it), so there was really no way to use it stealthily and that it would be possible to avoid to some degree.

The advantage to a ship that can stay very cold without popping sinks (very hard to achieve with the power consumption of shielding) is that you can extend one's low sensor signature time almost indefinitely and that popping sinks can actually give away one's position. I wouldn't be entirely opposed to giving shields a multiplier to sensor signature, but I don't think it's particularly needed either.

On the topic of heatsinks, I think using them should cancel emissive and render the ship immune to emissive effects while they were actively cooling the target, at least for hulls. one could explain away the discrepancy by having the mechanism be rapid cooling of the entire coolant loop (which must flow through the skin/hull of the ship too), including those areas selectively heated by emissive. Emissive hits to the shields would be the exception because you can't chill the contents of a plasma bubble physically separated from the ship with a coolant loop, and if you could, it would probably harm the effectiveness of the shield.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

I think the only weapon to really benefit from long range are canons with long range on them? Canons can shoot to 9km. Never tried it though.

Lots of weapons benefit from long range. Elimination of damage falloff and increased shot speed are the real draw.

Railguns and lasers do full damage out to max range.

Projectile weapons get crazy fast. Plasmas as fast as a multi round. Multis hitting a blistering 3600 m/s. Never mind the ability to match shot speed (say PAs with OC MCs).

Of course there are drawbacks but they're not so bad depending on what you need.

 

[Morbad]

Lots of weapons benefit from long range. Elimination of damage falloff and increased shot speed are the real draw.

I thought he was talking about sensors, but yeah, if he's talking about the weapon mod, pretty much anything can benefit from long range.

 

[Screemonster]

Yeah. I'll G1 LR a laser on some builds just to get rid of the falloff and not even bother taking it any further than that. It's one of the few mods, along with overcharged powerplants, where it's worth stopping at G1-3 and it's still competitive (or in the case of OC PP, actually better if you've got your power needs covered) with G5.

 

[Sethiest]

Yeah I agree about long range mods. But I was specifically talking about how most long range mods extend to 6km. 8A long range sensors can go as far as 13km. The weapon that i think can make the most use of that long range sensor are canons, as they extend to 9k with long range.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Yeah I agree about long range mods. But I was specifically talking about how most long range mods extend to 6km. 8A long range sensors can go as far as 13km. The weapon that i think can make the most use of that long range sensor are canons, as they extend to 9k with long range.

Ah! I see!

Trick there would be landing those shots. Sure, they're fast, but 9km is a long way out to shoot a cannon. I could see it being useful for a sneak attack or some kind of station ambush. Throw smart rounds on there and smack people coming out of the slot, for example.

Hmm... checks engineering materials

 

[Screemonster]

consider: finding an anarchy station (oh wait) and sitting inside the docking bay with force shells and smacking anyone coming into the slot.